Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[EuanH78]

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“What is being offered are shares in a company where the buyer’s holding can be diluted without their approval; where there is no market for the shares; where there is no prospect of a dividend; where the company is effectively insolvent and therefore the shares are worthless the minute the buyer writes a cheque for them.”

When you put it like that...where do I sign up?

[Eyrie]

I'm very concerned by the number of Hibs fans stating in this thread that they'd sign up. Don't you realise that each of you will cost Hearts money if they have to print and post a prospectus to you, then pay the post office to collect it because you didn't put enough postage on the reply and finally pay for someone to wade through all the applications from M Mouse, R Skacel and W Mercer?

[fatbloke]

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That makes good reading but to be honest many of us who are Hibs shareholders did so purely on the basis that they were buying into "their Club" with no prospect of any future financial gain.

I remember the bleak days of the Mercer takeover when our supporters (acting out of desperation) went out and purchased Hibs shares with a view to preventing the Devil incarnate from purchasing any further shares.

I can visualise that supporters of THEM will indeed go ahead and purchase shares in a last desperate throw of the dice to save their tawdry club.

I still have my thousand shares. The way I am going it will be all I leave my kids

[Minder]

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I'm very concerned by the number of Hibs fans stating in this thread that they'd sign up. Don't you realise that each of you will cost Hearts money if they have to print and post a prospectus to you, then pay the post office to collect it because you didn't put enough postage on the reply and finally pay for someone to wade through all the applications from M Mouse, R Skacel and W Mercer?

You failed to mention though that you will have to collect the prospectus first of all and pay the postage as they send it out with no postage !

[Kato]

Long, slow, painful journey into obscurity.

[cam75]

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You failed to mention though that you will have to collect the prospectus first of all and pay the postage as they send it out with no postage !

Post date your cheque 2020 never?

[Carheenlea]

Now I'm no expert in the goings on at Hearts, but I've felt for a long time that the only player in this whole sorry saga from a Hearts perspective who will emerge with his dignity intact will be Chris Robinson. The guy would have sold Tynecastle, yes, but would I be right in saying he was hounded into selling up to Romanov by the obnoxious Deans and the imbecile Foulkes? Both those clowns and many others castigated Robinson to anyone who would listen whilst at the same time fawning over Romanov and buying into his ludicrous predictions for the glorious future. Of course, these guys appear to have crawled back under their rocks, funnily enough not having too much to say for themselves these days. I'm surprised Robinson has remained silent though, and I think that it could be interesting to hear his views on all what has happened. We may hear soon enough, and as I said, I feel he will be the only one who can hold his head up and sleep easy with a clear conscience if this goes the way that the more informed posters on this thread predict.

[steakbake]

The Hearts fans turned on Robinson in a nasty way. Fairly sure he got a bit of hassle in the street for a while.

Then the EEN started its own campaign with regular stories about the ''ousted'' chairman's leylandii in his garden. I would like to see him vindicated after all this.

Also: thought they were cutting back? Why has Edgaras Jankauskas just turned up to be Assistant to the bus driver? Wonder what odds you'd get on him being manager by Xmas?

[monktonharp]

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My opinion is about as inexpert as it gets, but I'm assuming that HMRC have taken the view that Hearts are at it, in claiming that some of their players are employed by Kaunas. Some of them are quite clearly Hearts' players alone, and have no involvement (other than their wages) with Kaunas. If you add to their obvious non-employment at Kaunas the advantage that is gained by the owner of both clubs, there is surely at least room for suspicion that they are avoiding paying UK taxes by employing people through kid-on loans.

Claros, and the many other foreign loanees plying their trade here, look like genuine loans because they have an employment history at the club that claims to employ them, and they generally go back there.

No?


[Edit: and Sergio Sledge has beaten me to it....]

my opinion too, that the tax man kens their at it, and he is about to explain to them, just exactly how he kens.and just as a wee sidenote: if all these guys came from or through lithuania, to play here, where did they stay/who paid for the lodgings, and was this declared or just used as a tool to avoid paying taxes/ we've known/guessed/surmised for years that the gorgie mob have been at it, and the tax man isnae just doing this to keep his fellow taxmen in employment to prevent the from working on the side

[poolman]

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I've been assuming the tax case was a twist on the transfer pricing operation - e.g. V owns company Y in Scotland and company K in Lithuania. Tax rates are lower in Lithuania so K sell goods to Y at inflated prices to reduce Y's profits and increase K's making V's overall tax bill lower than it should have been. The same principle can be applied to wages so that V pays less for employees working in Scotland by paying them through K rather than Y. Neither arrangement is legal and the onus is on the taxpayer rather than HMRC to prove that such an arrangement didn't exist.

[brog]

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I've been assuming the tax case was a twist on the transfer pricing operation - e.g. V owns company Y in Scotland and company K in Lithuania. Tax rates are lower in Lithuania so K sell goods to Y at inflated prices to reduce Y's profits and increase K's making V's overall tax bill lower than it should have been. The same principle can be applied to wages so that V pays less for employees working in Scotland by paying them through K rather than Y. Neither arrangement is legal and the onus is on the taxpayer rather than HMRC to prove that such an arrangement didn't exist.

I think this is a definite possibility. My other thought is it may be simply a way of buying players yams could otherwise not afford. Put simply for a yam player to receive £10k a week net of tax his contract would be for £16k approx. I have no idea re Lithuanian tax rates but assume they're lower. If Vlad saved say £4k a week per player then 5 players = £1mm a year.

[Billy Whizz]

http://europa.eu/youreurope/business...a/index_en.htm

[greenginger]

I wonder if all these dodgy transfers and loans deals started as soon as Romanov took over or was after Phil Anderton got emptied and Mr Campbell Ogilvie arrived on the scene that the Yams started digging their own grave.

[green glory]

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I wonder if all these dodgy transfers and loans deals started as soon as Romanov took over or was after Phil Anderton got emptied and Mr Campbell Ogilvie arrived on the scene that the Yams started digging their own grave.

Ogilvie brought the Hun EBT scheme to The Wee Pink Wonga Dome. If there are dual contracts involved as with the Bigots then it's going to be very interesting.

[greenginger]

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Ogilvie brought the Hun EBT scheme to The Wee Pink Wonga Dome. If there are dual contracts involved as with the Bigots then it's going to be very interesting.

Are you sure ? I have never seen any payments to any kind of trust fund in any of the Yams annual accounts.

Still we can always hope !

Of course, if all the player payments channeled through Lithland were not on the contracts it is equally damaging.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Ogilvie brought the Hun EBT scheme to The Wee Pink Wonga Dome. If there are dual contracts involved as with the Bigots then it's going to be very interesting.

If there are, then they aren't disclosed in the accounts.

[JeMeSouviens]

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We may hear soon enough, and as I said, I feel he will be the only one who can hold his head up and sleep easy with a clear conscience if this goes the way that the more informed posters on this thread predict.

Why do you think he'd have a clear conscience? It was his ridiculous overspending that got them into the £20M+ of debt in the first place. Just another jumped up delusional "3rd force" Yam.

[Part/Time Supporter]

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Ogilvie brought the Hun EBT scheme to The Wee Pink Wonga Dome. If there are dual contracts involved as with the Bigots then it's going to be very interesting.

I don't think that's the case at all. EBTs were instigated at Rangers by the Murray Group. You had some Huns arguing for a while that Murray should accept any liability for the big tax case. Ogilvie received some EBT payments, but there isn't any evidence to suggest he was in charge of the scheme or that he imported it to Hearts.

As far as football sanctions against Hearts go, people are getting way ahead of themselves. Even if the tax tribunal finds in HMRC's favour that the players should have been fully taxed in the UK, that doesn't necessarily mean that SFA or SPL rules were broken. As long as Hearts declared the full payment to players, they will have complied. The contention that the wrong amount of tax was deducted isn't relevant.

[green glory]

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?228678-EBT-s

This was discussed before and while certainly not conclusive, I'm pretty certain it was also openly discussed by Rangerstaxcase a while ago.
I may have green tinted specs but I'd wager it was true.

[Caversham Green]

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I wasn't directly commenting on or challenging anything that you have said in my last post so not sure why you're replying to me here.

I know you've commented a lot on Hearts' situation over the years and I know you've looked at it a lot in quite great detail.

All I was saying was that I really want to see them finally meet the justice that they deserve for their overspending and general cheating during the Romanov reign and I have heard so many people, for about the past five or six years, saying that Hearts were going to be finished by such and such a day and would be in administration etc and it's just never happened.

I will admit that this latest comment admitting serious concerns from one of their own directors looks and sounds quite promising but I just don't want to get my hopes up.

However, that is not to say that I am doubting your knowledge of the situation.

I know mate, my rant was somewhat misdirected - it was your first sentence "I'll believe it when I see it." that got me going. I usually go to some lengths to explain my comments, as do others, and then someone (not you as far as I remember) pops up with "wishful thinking/we all know it's not going to happen" type comments without offering any sort of counter-argument. We can never be sure one way or the other but these guys are despite never bringing anything of value to the discussion.

Sorry for any offence.

[DarrenSQH]

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I'm very concerned by the number of Hibs fans stating in this thread that they'd sign up. Don't you realise that each of you will cost Hearts money if they have to print and post a prospectus to you, then pay the post office to collect it because you didn't put enough postage on the reply and finally pay for someone to wade through all the applications from M Mouse, R Skacel and W Mercer?

How do we do this?

[Future17]

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Ogilvie brought the Hun EBT scheme to The Wee Pink Wonga Dome. If there are dual contracts involved as with the Bigots then it's going to be very interesting.

Hearts don't pay some of their players once - very unlikely they pay any of them twice!!!

[green glory]

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How do we do this?

I'm sure every member of each household would like to take up this marvellous investment opportunity. My goldfish Alan is especially keen.

[Caversham Green]

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Now I'm no expert in the goings on at Hearts, but I've felt for a long time that the only player in this whole sorry saga from a Hearts perspective who will emerge with his dignity intact will be Chris Robinson. The guy would have sold Tynecastle, yes, but would I be right in saying he was hounded into selling up to Romanov by the obnoxious Deans and the imbecile Foulkes? Both those clowns and many others castigated Robinson to anyone who would listen whilst at the same time fawning over Romanov and buying into his ludicrous predictions for the glorious future. Of course, these guys appear to have crawled back under their rocks, funnily enough not having too much to say for themselves these days. I'm surprised Robinson has remained silent though, and I think that it could be interesting to hear his views on all what has happened. We may hear soon enough, and as I said, I feel he will be the only one who can hold his head up and sleep easy with a clear conscience if this goes the way that the more informed posters on this thread predict.

I sort of agree with that. The plan to move from Tynecastle was understandably unpopular but in truth it was the least bad option he had (apart from finding a sugardaddy) and in truth, was moving to a bigger, better stadium a few hundred yards away really that bad? The atmosphere would certainly have suffered, but I reckon they could have countered that by only opening certain parts of the stadium. Undoubtedly they'd be in a healthier position now if they'd taken their medicine then.

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Why do you think he'd have a clear conscience? It was his ridiculous overspending that got them into the £20M+ of debt in the first place. Just another jumped up delusional "3rd force" Yam.

Certainly he overspent and probably mismanaged the club somewhat, but he inherited a real mess from Mercer. The stadium was half finished and sub-standard with a commitment to complete to the same low but expensive standards, and the finances were far from being healthy. HoMFC have had ideas above their station since well before Pieman's time but he tried to go some way towards reining them back, at least towards the end of his regime.

[LeighLoyal]

The two cup defeats they've dolled out to us, done with teams they couldn't afford. If they fold up they should be stripped just like the Zombie hun are about to be.

[Hibbyradge]

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I don't think that's the case at all. EBTs were instigated at Rangers by the Murray Group. You had some Huns arguing for a while that Murray should accept any liability for the big tax case. Ogilvie received some EBT payments, but there isn't any evidence to suggest he was in charge of the scheme or that he imported it to Hearts.

As far as football sanctions against Hearts go, people are getting way ahead of themselves. Even if the tax tribunal finds in HMRC's favour that the players should have been fully taxed in the UK, that doesn't necessarily mean that SFA or SPL rules were broken. As long as Hearts declared the full payment to players, they will have complied. The contention that the wrong amount of tax was deducted isn't relevant.

I am led to believe that this isn't the case.

[DarrenSQH]

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I'm sure every member of each household would like to take up this marvellous investment opportunity. My goldfish Alan is especially keen.

Well make sure he and anyone else intrested prints out page 21-22 of this and send its back.
http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/staticFiles/44/b9/0,,10289~178500,00.pdf

The Share Manager
Heart Of Midlothian PLC
Tynecastle Park
Gorgie Road
Edinburgh
EH11 2NL

[green glory]

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Well make sure he and anyone else intrested prints out page 21-22 of this and send its back.
http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/staticFile...~178500,00.pdf

The Share Manager
Heart Of Midlothian PLC
Tynecastle Park
Gorgie Road
Edinburgh
EH11 2NL

Most excellent, Alsn says cheers. Ian my budgie could maybe be talked into this too.

[StevieC]

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If they fold up they should be stripped just like the Zombie hun are about to be.

Rangers are likely to lose their league titles but I'm not sure whether they are getting chased for their cups? It may be that the cup competitions have different registration rules and that dual-contracts may not have ruled certain players out of the cup competitions.

[hibsmad]

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Rangers are likely to lose their league titles but I'm not sure whether they are getting chased for their cups? It may be that the cup competitions have different registration rules and that dual-contracts may not have ruled certain players out of the cup competitions.

Does anyone know if Rangers are likely to be stripped of cup wins? Or if that is something that would be pursued along with titles?

I would honestly laugh and probably never stop if Hearts were stripped of last seasons. Can you imagine it? A match that they can basically rip the you know what out of us for the rest of our lives. If that was suddenly taken away due to them being cheating tax dodging ****bags.

It would never take the hurt away that I felt on the day, but I would certainly feel a lot better and would raise a wee glass to justice being done.