Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Kato]

I wonder if there were .cough. duel contracts?

[Kato]

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As much as I'd like them to sink without trace, I just can't see them shutting up shop. Somehow, they will escape from all this and still be hanging around like a bad smell for years to come.....

...playing at Murrayfield in Div 3.

[DaveF]

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...playing at Murrayfield in Div 3.

I can cope with that

[--------]

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Yes, their extinction is appealing.

However I stand by my position. The cup final was A win, not THE win. But then I'm not in favour of the sort of mentality that chooses as the best tunes and bands of all time the ones people can remember from the last three or four years. A longer perspective is better.

I'll see their referee-assisted, financial steroid-bought cup win and then raise it both the 7-0 AND the magnificent 0-0 draw on 9th November 1985 which cost them the single point that would otherwise have won them the League in season 1985-1986. Still, Mita been eh?

I would tend to share your long view, but MAY 19th was just about as painful a day as I've ever had following Hibs and I'm in no mood to forget or forbear - yet.

But if, as may well yet come to light, there were contractual irregularities between the club and some of those players who played in the Final, I would assume that the SFA will have to do to them what they appear to intend to do to Rangers - deprive them of the trophy concerned.

Now THAT would be both funny, and exquisitely poetic justice.

[shagpile]

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I wonder if there were .cough. duel contracts?

Doubt it. Contracts with 'Russian Roulette to be played by the whole squad until there is a "loser" ' in them would have been much better though!.

[Kaiser1962]

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As much as I'd like them to sink without trace, I just can't see them shutting up shop. Somehow, they will escape from all this and still be hanging around like a bad smell for years to come.

Feel free to dig up this post and remind of it if \ when the place is demolished though

I share your concerns and if it was anything else but football they would already be consigned to the dustbin. But it is football and normal rules are suspended.

I remain hopeful though.

[Hibernia Na Eir]

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I can remember a story ages ago about a Hearts player that applied for a loan/mortgage, or something, and his wage was too low to get it, until he produced documentation of an additional income from Kaunus.

I didn't read too much into at the time, but looks like it could be what the HMRC are chasing up.

which begs the repeated question, why would any footballer WANT to sign for them?

[StevieC]

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which begs the repeated question, why would any footballer WANT to sign for them?

Because they pay more than any other team outwith the old firm. How (or when) they get their wages really doesn't matter, they still have the money in the bank.

[EuanH78]

Not being a tax expert here but something about these theories doesnt smell right.

Why would Hearts pay any of the 'loan' players wages at all if a tax break could be achieved (ignoring the relative morality/ chances of getting away with it) If you are going to avoid tax this way why not go the whole hog and just have Kaunus pay the complete wage?

Also, could it be as simple as information from HomoFC's own accounts sinking them?

'So, your accounts say you pay £?? Million in wages per year, Seems your PAYE and NI are a bit short Mr Romanov'

Thinking the 'player registrations' to Kaunas is probably lump sums to cover wage payments though - Seems a stick on.

[monktonharp]

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In the unlikely event that Hibs have made a mistake with Claros (and it would be a genuine mistake) you can be sure that Hibs and HMRC would sort it out quickly and amicably.

I would be very surprised if there's an issue though.

dont agree with all you say Mikey,but on this occasion I do . cant see HFC falling into a trap set by hmrc for the sake of one player, but you never know. things can be overlooked genuinely, but for one individual, surely that can be sorted if it was exposed as money owed.? there must be a few situations over the years where Hibernian have players on loan from overseas, outwith our tax system.

[Www1875hfc]

http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-...ures-1-2602709

Quite liked this wee paragraph
What is clear is that Hearts remain at the mercy of Romanov and his Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe, which has been in control for almost eight years. As of 20 June last year, Hearts owed UBIG £22.4m, with interest at 4.5 per cent. The share document states that UBIG will not seek repayment of this amount during season 2012-13 but the position will be reassessed on 1 July 2013. “If UBIG were to demand repayment of the full amount,” states the document, “the Company [Hearts] would be insolvent and face liquidation

[hfc rd]

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http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-...ures-1-2602709

Quite liked this wee paragraph
What is clear is that Hearts remain at the mercy of Romanov and his Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe, which has been in control for almost eight years. As of 20 June last year, Hearts owed UBIG £22.4m, with interest at 4.5 per cent. The share document states that UBIG will not seek repayment of this amount during season 2012-13 but the position will be reassessed on 1 July 2013. “If UBIG were to demand repayment of the full amount,” states the document, “the Company [Hearts] would be insolvent and face liquidation

Nice wee read that. 1st July 2013 is something to look forward to.
Tick tock tick tock.

[Mon Dieu4]

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http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-...ures-1-2602709

Quite liked this wee paragraph
What is clear is that Hearts remain at the mercy of Romanov and his Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe, which has been in control for almost eight years. As of 20 June last year, Hearts owed UBIG £22.4m, with interest at 4.5 per cent. The share document states that UBIG will not seek repayment of this amount during season 2012-13 but the position will be reassessed on 1 July 2013. “If UBIG were to demand repayment of the full amount,” states the document, “the Company [Hearts] would be insolvent and face liquidation

the interest alone is about £2,700 a DAY then!!

[cabbageandribs1875]

i'm just absolutely delighted that HMRC finally decided to act on my strongly worded letter to them regarding the crooked manner in which the pinkoids have been run for a few years now, i also mentioned that campbell ogilvie deserves his very own investigation








go me :)

[grunt]

Hard hittting Tom English article in the Scotsman

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...ults-1-2602698

Buy Hearts shares or live with results

IN ANNOUNCING their share issue last week, Hearts didn’t so much press a prospectus into the hands of their supporters as push a gun to their temple. Whether it was the wording in the share brochure published on Friday or the comments made by Tynecastle director Sergejus Fedotovas earlier on the same day, the message coming out of the club was one that had more than a hint of emotional blackmail about it. In presenting a vision of the future that had Hearts in [COLOR=#446688 !important][COLOR=#446688 !important]mortal[/COLOR][/COLOR] danger of administration and possibly liquidation if the fans didn’t stump up more cash, Fedotovas, and the puppet master himself Vladimir Romanov, were engaging in some pretty desperate measures. Effectively they were saying: “Buy the shares or live with the consequences if you don’t...”

“The share issue is a signal, an alarm to the people who are truly concerned about the club,” said Fedotovas. What is he saying here? If people can’t afford to buy shares or don’t want to invest because they have legitimate concerns about how their money might be spent then these supporters are not “truly concerned about the club”? To Fedotovas’ mind is it a case of “if you want to prove you care, then buy the shares”?

All through Hearts’ public statements about the share issue there is a threat and the threat comes in the way of what might befall the club if enough punters don’t stump up. There doesn’t appear to any acceptance of responsibility on Romanov’s behalf, no mea culpa over the ridiculous way he has run the club. No. “If this strategy fails, the club will be faced with a tough financial reality,” said Fedotovas. “The answer to that would be another dramatic cut in costs. And I don’t think anyone would be happy with a weak team and bad football results.”

There you go. Pay up or feel the guilt. Fedotovas made a preposterous remark on Friday when saying that “if you want to maintain a squad that is capable of playing in Europe then the budget should be according to that.” Well, firstly, merely playing (i.e. qualifying to play) in Europe doesn’t need a big budget anymore, certainly not in Rangers’ absence. Motherwell had a shot at the Champions League last season with a much smaller budget than [COLOR=#446688 !important][COLOR=#446688 !important]Hearts[/COLOR][/COLOR] have, so Hearts could keep cutting and they’d still be one of the most moneyed squads in the SPL outside of Celtic.

Secondly, it was the drive for the SPL title and some kind of relevance in European football that has got [COLOR=#446688 !important][COLOR=#446688 !important]Hearts[/COLOR][/COLOR] into this financial nightmare in the first place. While Romanov deserves credit for stopping the sale of Tynecastle when he bought a controlling interest in the club, the early years of his stewardship were marked by spending. Throughout his supercilious phase when he predicted league titles and Champions League competition, the amount of money Romanov wasted on player salaries was nothing short of vulgar. Hearts are £24 million in debt (plus annual interest of 4.5 per cent) because of their hubristic wish to “maintain a squad that is capable of playing in Europe”. They don’t have enough money to pay their players on time, they have HMRC battering on their door, they have had to sell, sell and sell again to keep the show on the road and Fedotovas is harping on about building a squad for Europe? Enough, Sergejus.

The share brochure doesn’t so much suggest that Hearts need money now as scream it aloud. This is a hole of Romanov’s making and now he’s now demanding that the supporters fill it in with their cash, despite always saying that his private investment group, UBIG would always cover for any financial shortfall. Not anymore. In the introduction they suggest that everybody turns to page 18 for a section called Risk Factors and here is where Romanov reaches for the loaded gun.

It talks about the club being insolvent if it wasn’t for the ongoing support of Romanov’s UBIG, support that is guaranteed for this current season but will be “reassessed” on 1 July, 2013. “If UBIG were to demand repayment of the full amount, the Company would be insolvent and would face liquidation.” That’s Romanov effectively saying “I can shut this club down in the summer if I like…”

In the very next paragraph the tax case is mentioned. By comparison, the £1.75m, excluding interest and penalties, that HMRC are seeking from Hearts is buttons compared to the numbers that we’ve been speaking about for years at Ibrox, but, in relative terms, it’s a hugely significant figure. Hearts said on Thursday that they wanted to raise £1.8m in their share issue but never mentioned a potential tax bill which, coincidentally, will come in at about £1.8m if the case goes against them. Now, maybe the two £1.8ms are not linked, but the confusion must prey on the minds of some Hearts fans as they ponder the share issue. Are they being bull****ted here? Is the bulk of their share money going to youth development or is it a sneaky ploy on behalf of the club to use fans’ money to pay off the taxman?

The share brochure talks of a “significant ongoing dispute” with HMRC which could have a “dramatically negative impact on the Company”. The tax tribunal sits next month, the case revolving around a clutch of players signed on loan by Hearts from Kaunas up to seven years ago when the Lithuanian club was controlled by Romanov. The players’ salaries ran into thousands of pounds per week but only a small percentage of their wage was paid by Hearts. The majority came from their parent club. HMRC claim that Hearts were obliged to pay tax on their entire salary, not just a portion of it.

Some Hearts fans will buy shares because they can and because they feel they must but there is no moral imperative to buy, despite what Fedotovas is saying. If you’re a conscientious objector to the share issue (based on your fears about how the money might be used), it doesn’t make you any less of a Hearts fan. Maybe in Fedotovas’ mind it does, but not in the real world.

And let’s be clear about one thing. This isn’t an investment, it’s a gift. The shares will be worth nothing as the club is worth nothing, in financial terms. Last year, Romanov valued it at £50m, now he seems to have dropped the valuation to about £18m. Supporters are being asked to hand over £110, which is probably 109 times more than the entire club is worth while saddled by all that debt. There are perilous times for Hearts, but nobody should forget who is largely responsible for the shambles they’re currently in.

[brog]

Although the circumstances are different the intent by both sevco & yams is identical, ie buy players you can't afford by getting us ( uk taxpayers ) to subsidise the wages of these players. There are many significant differences between normal loans & the yam situation. Most loans are for players out of favour at their club, eg Adebayor or young promising but inexperienced players, eg McGiven & Handling. The yam players never played for Kaunas & mostly never even entered the country. I have no doubt this will be found, correctly, to be tax evasion. One other possibility enters my cynical mind. What if yams were correctly taxing some of the Kaunas loans but only handing over a smaller amount to HMRC? That would be fraud & again not dissimilar to sevco where tax was collected but not paid to HMRC. They're doomed I tell you, doomed!

[Danderhall Hibs]

See when Gordon signed his £18k per week contract weren't there rumours he had to sign for Kaunas and be loaned back to Hearts?

[matty_f]

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See when Gordon signed his £18k per week contract weren't there rumours he had to sign for Kaunas and be loaned back to Hearts?

There were definitely stories of players having to have Lithuanian bank accounts, which would suggest not everything was being done transparently.

[Hibstrooper]

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Hard hittting Tom English article in the Scotsman

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...ults-1-2602698

Nice Sunday morning read

Karma's a bitch

[SloopJB]

I'd much prefer Hibs to be a stronger teeam than Hearts, dominate the fixture for years to come than see hearts go out of business as the 'more successful on the pitch' of the two teams.

[Ozyhibby]

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I'd much prefer Hibs to be a stronger teeam than Hearts, dominate the fixture for years to come than see hearts go out of business as the 'more successful on the pitch' of the two teams.

Hearts have been stronger on the pitch in the same way as Lance Armstrong was the strongest on the streets of France.
They have been financial doping for years and still have a squad which costs them more than their turnover.

[#FromTheCapital]

What it all boils down to is that hearts have been cheating in order to gain a sporting advantage. For this reason I hope they rot in hell.

[thebakerboy]

Just had a Jambo I know on FB saying yes he is going to invest in Hearts and that he believes in Vlad and what do I mean in suggesting the have cheated to win 2 cups in 6 years as per Portsmouth. Some of them are totally deluded and I honestly almost feel sorry for them. My other Jambo friends know they are in deep doo doo and are very worried but as long as some still believe it will continue.

[english_hibee]

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Nice Sunday morning read

Karma's a bitch

Cue a seething "Scotsman is more a Hibernian fanzine than a real paper - they hate us tooooooooo *sob sob*" from our Tynie cousins!

[1two]

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Hearts have been stronger on the pitch in the same way as Lance Armstrong was the strongest on the streets of France.
They have been financial doping for years and still have a squad which costs them more than their turnover.

I like that, I'm going to use that one

[cabbageandribs1875]

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Just had a Jambo I know on FB saying yes he is going to invest in Hearts and that he believes in Vlad and what do I mean in suggesting the have cheated to win 2 cups in 6 years as per Portsmouth. Some of them are totally deluded and I honestly almost feel sorry for them. My other Jambo friends know they are in deep doo doo and are very worried but as long as some still believe it will continue.

there's none so blind as those who will not see

[GoldenEagle]

Remember that Hearts re-iterated to the Edinburgh Council that a new stadium needs to be in place for the start of season 2013/2014 back in March 2011.

[greenginger]

Been having a scan of the various opinions and predictions of future events over on Kickback.

Loose the tax case , Vlad refuses to stump-up, Share sale is a flop/success and everything in between.

Some seem to think administration, getting a CVA, dumping the tax debt with UBIG retaining the PBS because of their security would be the solution. ?

Any thoughts Cav/CWG, your employment on this board is secure.

[Mon Dieu4]

don't think a CVA would work this time, the Huns had outside creditors but why would Vlad sanction that road when its him and his businesses that would lose out?

does a CVA even work when the creditors are not a UK based company?

[johncrobertson@]

Short term loan from Wonga may help the cheaters. There is no way Romanov has ploughed in 60 million and they are 40 million in debt. That is a swing of 100 million + money brought in from transfers etc. From the moment he took over every penny spent went through their clubs books. In my mind they are absolute cheats by paying salaries that were way over what they could afford - and just creating debt. From the money he allegedly invested - where is the ground improvement? where is the training facilities? They deserve everything they get - and one thing is for sure, our approach will pay long term dividends as we have the infrastructure all now in place, and we are starting to see results on the pitch. C'mon the Hibees.