Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Kaiser1962]

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Sandy Jardine in the Evening Times on why players should be queuing up to sign for Rangers:

"Why not? You have got the best stadium in Scotland, the best training ground in Scotland, the best supporters in Scotland and the best crowds in Scotland. It is a no-brainer."

Is he not forgetting one important factor ....... the quality of football they play week in week out for THREE YEARS.

As usual Sandra is wrong as Celtic have bigger crowds. The other three points are subjective and, generally, Celtic's Lennoxtown and our own East Mains are equally highly regarded by professionals within the game, if not more so than Murray Park.

[Seveno]

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This has little relevance for TRFC now.

If OldCo win their appeal, there will be more cash available for the other creditors.

If they don't, HMRC may have ammunition to go after some of the OldCo directors personally, although I think that's unlikely. They may also have some precedence for dealing with other clubs and EBT's; even then, IIRC, FTT decisions don't have the same value in precedent terms as "full" Courts.

I beg to differ. If the FTT comes out in favour of HMRC then it provides further evidence for the dual contracts investigation. As I understand the deal to allow Sevco the SFA registration, they had to accept liability for the sins of Oldco.

[grunt]

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The position now is that Sevco have obtained the 'best' stadium and training ground in Scotland for £1.5m while Hibs paid £3.5m for a single stand and £5.5m for their training ground and Hearts paid £2.5m plus an annual rental for their training ground and can't afford to upgrade their stadium. Sevco also paid a single pound for the goodwill of the 'best' fans in Scotland - if that's not gaining an unfair sporting advantage nothing is. Sadly, although there's plenty to get the blood vessels popping there's not much the law or football regulations can or will do about it.

And at the same time their predecessor company has stiffed the UK taxpayer by something approaching £100m, as well as stiffing myriad local businesses and some football clubs of varying amounts. This thread has become a really depressing read recently.

[Kaiser1962]

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This has little relevance for TRFC now.

If OldCo win their appeal, there will be more cash available for the other creditors.

If they don't, HMRC may have ammunition to go after some of the OldCo directors personally, although I think that's unlikely. They may also have some precedence for dealing with other clubs and EBT's; even then, IIRC, FTT decisions don't have the same value in precedent terms as "full" Courts.

The financial aspect rgarding the tax case may be over but I recall there were a number of discussions that The Rangers accepted (a degree of) responsibility for the double contracts scam that their predecessors operated. I am sure this was part of the agreement by which they obtained SFA membership.

[AndyM_1875]

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I beg to differ. If the FTT comes out in favour of HMRC then it provides further evidence for the dual contracts investigation. As I understand the deal to allow Sevco the SFA registration, they had to accept liability for the sins of Oldco.

Sevco can argue that as they are paying and planning to pay all Oldco Footballing Debt then they are doing so.

[Ozyhibby]

I think the only development that really matters now is the investigation into dual contracts.
A guilty verdict there can see the SPL dish out any punishment it sees fit. This could include a ten year ban from Europe, a million pound a year fine for ten years, expulsion from the league etc.
Anyone waiting for BDO to unwind the purchase etc will be disappointed. They will bleed what's left of the old rangers dry and then wind it up without a second thought for the creditors.
Our only hope is that the spl decide that a debt free Rangers in 2015 is too much and impose a significant financial penalty on them for cheating for ten years.
This is what green is most anxious to avoid which is why they are making so much noise about stripping of titles as if this is the worst that could happen to them.
Stripping of titles would not effect his business going forward one bit.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I beg to differ. If the FTT comes out in favour of HMRC then it provides further evidence for the dual contracts investigation. As I understand the deal to allow Sevco the SFA registration, they had to accept liability for the sins of Oldco.

One would hope that the evidence would be the same.

[ballengeich]

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The financial aspect rgarding the tax case may be over but I recall there were a number of discussions that The Rangers accepted (a degree of) responsibility for the double contracts scam that their predecessors operated. I am sure this was part of the agreement by which they obtained SFA membership.

Much will depend on the exact terms of the deal that was struck. They've accepted that they should pay the outstanding transfer debts to other clubs, but I don't know how much more is expected of them.

Removal of historic titles can be carried out regardless. However, it would appear fair to me that any prize-money won using incorrectly registered players should be returned, and that there should be additional financial and points penalties in the future. Have the SFA insisted on an agreement that allows this to happen? I hope so, but I doubt it given the way they've bent rules to help Green's new company in other areas.

The attitude of UEFA in future could be interesting. They're treating the club as a completely new entity for entry to Europe, hence the three year exclusion while they build an accounting history. If it emerges that Rangers were fielding ineligible players for years, and arguably depriving defeated opponents of money by progressing further than would have been the case without these players, will UEFA say they're a new club and nothing further can be done?

[AndyM_1875]

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I think the only development that really matters now is the investigation into dual contracts.
A guilty verdict there can see the SPL dish out any punishment it sees fit. This could include a ten year ban from Europe, a million pound a year fine for ten years, expulsion from the league etc.
Anyone waiting for BDO to unwind the purchase etc will be disappointed. They will bleed what's left of the old rangers dry and then wind it up without a second thought for the creditors.
Our only hope is that the spl decide that a debt free Rangers in 2015 is too much and impose a significant financial penalty on them for cheating for ten years.
This is what green is most anxious to avoid which is why they are making so much noise about stripping of titles as if this is the worst that could happen to them.
Stripping of titles would not effect his business going forward one bit.

I have little faith in the SPL to do anything else and a feeling that Green will deliver exactly what you suggest in 2015. A debt free Rangers to the SPL.

Trying to put sanctions on them again then will fail. I have little doubt that Rangers lawyers will be ready to pounce and I'd question if by then there will be the stomach for contunuing to sanction Rangers three years from now.

[ballengeich]

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Our only hope is that the spl decide that a debt free Rangers in 2015 is too much and impose a significant financial penalty on them for cheating for ten years.
This is what green is most anxious to avoid which is why they are making so much noise about stripping of titles as if this is the worst that could happen to them.
Stripping of titles would not effect his business going forward one bit.

Green would be delighted by stripping of titles. His sales pitch is based on poor Rangers being persecuted, and he'll play this one for every £million it's worth.

[jgl07]

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I have little faith in the SPL to do anything else and a feeling that Green will deliver exactly what you suggest in 2015. A debt free Rangers to the SPL.

Trying to put sanctions on them again then will fail. I have little doubt that Rangers lawyers will be ready to pounce and I'd question if by then there will be the stomach for contunuing to sanction Rangers three years from now.

If they don't pay off Rapid Vienna, Chelsea, Manchester City etc, FIFA will be on their case and the European ban could run a lot longer.

[Seveno]

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One would hope that the evidence would be the same.

Yes, it's called corroboration.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Yes, it's called corroboration.

The very rock of Scots justice which we're about to kick into touch.

Actually, I was being sardonic (sarcastic?) in hoping that each of the FTT and SPL would see the same bits of paper, unshredded, with the same things written on them, leading to the same conclusion...... am I being too naive?

[CropleyWasGod]

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I think the only development that really matters now is the investigation into dual contracts.
A guilty verdict there can see the SPL dish out any punishment it sees fit. This could include a ten year ban from Europe, a million pound a year fine for ten years, expulsion from the league etc.
Anyone waiting for BDO to unwind the purchase etc will be disappointed. They will bleed what's left of the old rangers dry and then wind it up without a second thought for the creditors.
Our only hope is that the spl decide that a debt free Rangers in 2015 is too much and impose a significant financial penalty on them for cheating for ten years.
This is what green is most anxious to avoid which is why they are making so much noise about stripping of titles as if this is the worst that could happen to them.
Stripping of titles would not effect his business going forward one bit.

That's quite a charge. Have you had previous dealings with them, or do you have other reasons for saying that?

[Seveno]

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The very rock of Scots justice which we're about to kick into touch.

Actually, I was being sardonic (sarcastic?) in hoping that each of the FTT and SPL would see the same bits of paper, unshredded, with the same things written on them, leading to the same conclusion...... am I being too naive?

I would never accuse you of that. All the FTT and SFA had to do was to write a nice letter to Mark Daly for the evidence. I did not grudge one penny of my TV Licence fee this year.

[Winston Ingram]

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Green would be delighted by stripping of titles. His sales pitch is based on poor Rangers being persecuted, and he'll play this one for every £million it's worth.

He's certainly used the 'victim' approach well so far. There appears to be far less resistance to him now in the Hun support

[LeighLoyal]

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He's certainly used the 'victim' approach well so far. There appears to be far less resistance to him now in the Hun support

Poor them, eh? A possible £140m in unpaid debts, probably a lot more when you factor in Murray's personal debt mountain that underwrote the failed share issue. A compliant, corrupt SFA, bending the rules at every turn to accommodate his mysterons dodgy purchase from an even dodgier administrator. The only victims in this are the honest people who did business with Murray and Whyte, and Scottish football, not his scandalous newco.

[AndyM_1875]

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He's certainly used the 'victim' approach well so far. There appears to be far less resistance to him now in the Hun support

Things are ticking over nicely for Charlie boy.

The debt has been shed and the Bluenoses are pretty much onside and turning up in their droves whilst the dopey Sellik muppets (despite having a team in the Champions League) continue to obsess, whinge and greet about his every utterance. He's painted the SFA as Rangers enemy and the Huns love that.

If the SPL come knocking with plans for reconstruction and SPL2 he's got them all exactly where he wants them.

[Northernhibee]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...-old-obsession

This is deluded beyond belief.

[PatHead]

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He's certainly used the 'victim' approach well so far. There appears to be far less resistance to him now in the Hun support

Funny when Romanov did it we call him a deluded muppet. Chickie is a hero with DR/Sun

[Hibernian Verse]

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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...-old-obsession

This is deluded beyond belief.

I think that was written by a small child.

[PatHead]

What a load of cack and they wonder why everyone hates them!

"In fact, the Celtic faithful have gone to the extent of making infamously sectarian writer Phil Mac Giolla Bhain (or Phil Gillivan if you are a Government official)’s new book a top seller on Amazon."

If I was him I would be reaching for the phone to call my lawyer

[LeighLoyal]

Sally slavering some serious pish in the The Hun this morning. Apparently it's 'absolutely ridiculous' that Simpleton and his even simpler mates signed up with Sevco 2012 for the 7k a week. The 7k a week was just a wee added on bonus then, eh Sally?



He's also still under the false impression that Div 3 is a punishment. Div 3 is where any new club starts, Sally!



Man is a total erse!

[Onion]

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Sally slavering some serious pish in the The Hun this morning. Apparently it's 'absolutely ridiculous' that Simpleton and his even simpler mates signed up with Sevco 2012 for the 7k a week. The 7k a week was just a wee added on bonus then, eh Sally?



He's also still under the false impression that Div 3 is a punishment. Div 3 is where any new club starts, sally!



Arse!

“That’s absolutely ridiculous, to be honest with you.

“And even if it was the case then they’re quite entitled to because in any other profession you’d look after yourself and your family financially."

McCoist contradicting himself as usual, but at least he's being honest

[Part/Time Supporter]

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I think that was written by a small child.

It was. In the comments he says he was born in 1995.

[EdinMike]

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It was. In the comments he says he was born in 1995.

I still stand by my credo that you shouldn't be allowed an opinion on Anything, until you are at least 21.

And so I read said article, and also as in my credo I shall now print it and put it next to the toilet for when it is next needed.

[PatHead]

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I think we're going to have to accept that The Ranger supporters will see everything that has happened to their club as punishment .
It's difficult to find a single post anywhere where one of them accepts there has been little to zero punishment and all that has happened is a consequence of recent events.

From a position of ambivilance I'm starting to dislike them which is falling into their trap of 'everbody hates us so we are the oppressed' but it is difficult to ignore them when they are publicly paraded at every opportunity. Suppose that isn't their fault but they are being played by the press and the The Rangers management.

I steer clear af calling them sevco as they can rightly say that is not what they are called, emphasisng 'The' pisses them off though, that'll do.

I did ask on this site a week or two ago why Rangers and Celtic were referred to as 'The Old Firm' but didn't get a response, depends on the reason but the mantle may have shifted and we should be referring to another fixture as the Old Firm match, again that would piss them off but couldn't be argued against.

Re the "Old Firm" I am sure I once heard it was coined after a Cup final in which both teams didn't try to score at the end thus ensuring another gate from the replay. (Maybe 1920s) A newspaper reporter referred to them as behaving like 2 sides of an Old Firm and the name stuck

[Seveno]

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Re the "Old Firm" I am sure I once heard it was coined after a Cup final in which both teams didn't try to score at the end thus ensuring another gate from the replay. (Maybe 1920s) A newspaper reporter referred to them as behaving like 2 sides of an Old Firm and the name stuck

So basically the name was born out of cheating ? How appropriate.

[PatHead]

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So basically the name was born out of cheating ? How appropriate.

Thought that myself.

[Seveno]

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Sally slavering some serious pish in the The Hun this morning. Apparently it's 'absolutely ridiculous' that Simpleton and his even simpler mates signed up with Sevco 2012 for the 7k a week. The 7k a week was just a wee added on bonus then, eh Sally?



He's also still under the false impression that Div 3 is a punishment. Div 3 is where any new club starts, Sally!



Man is a total erse!

I would love the BBC to do a 'Who do you think you are ?' programme on him. I'm sure that if they dug back far enough, it would reveal that he is related to Craig Levein.