Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[CentreLine]

If only the people who run Scottish Football had showed the level of courage and integrity that the Olympic Badminton Committee showed with cheats then perhaps we would be celebrating the rebirth of Scottish Football right now instead of its slow death.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/d...045549702.html

In the Olympics, World Champions, Olympic Champions and favourites for the event get no special treatment but the authorities show that their game is above any of the individuals involved regardless of their perceived status. No fudging the issue, changing the rules or down right corruption and they earn the respect of the sporting world. Furthermore, the Chinese Olympic Authorities come right in behind the Olympic Authorities and demand that their cheating players make a humbling public apology. Everyone is left in no doubt about integrity in the sport, the countries involved and the Olympic Authorities retain the respect of the world even if the individuals concerned must learn a stark and costly lesson.

Sadly we must contrast with the Scottish Football Authorities and the people running Rangers Football Club in Administration. Everything that they have done has been to the detriment of the game here and it may never recover.

The Football Authorities had to be forced in to making a decision and, even then, contrive to work with smoke and mirrors in an attempt to hide the fact that they have not actually punished Rangers Football Club in administration at all. What’s more, they have colluded in promoting a myth that the new club, now trading as The Rangers, is in fact the old club, soon to be liquidated, and all is well with the game.
Finally, throughout the whole process, the arguments for keeping a form of Rangers in the league has consisted of so much negativity about our national sport that it could only be a self fulfilling prophesy. Reagan tells the nutters there will be unrest and now we are told he requires protection from terrorists. Doncaster tells the media world that we cannot do without a Rangers, and opened the door to every sponsor and TV broadcaster inviting them to slash their contribution to this game because he has told them Scottish Football is inferior. Some business tactic that. Instead Reagan had an opportunity to advance the cause of common sense and decency while Doncaster had the most wonderful opportunity to promote our game in Scotland as the cleanest and best in the world to be associated with.

Somebody needs to tell the people running Scottish football that when you are in a dirty hole you need to stop digging. They have made a mess of every stage of this process. I fear that it is already too late but the licence thing is perhaps the last opportunity that they have to show some balls. Even then they have started by making an unconstitutional change to the rules and the fudge gets ever more sickly sweet.
I despair of our game and our society and I am sickened by Scottish Football in its failure to use the influence it has on society and culture in this country to make things better.

Perhaps we should ask the Olympic Badminton people to step in because right now it is Olympic Badminton 8 Scottish Football 0

[Paisley Hibby]

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If only the people who run Scottish Football had showed the level of courage and integrity that the Olympic Badminton Committee showed with cheats then perhaps we would be celebrating the rebirth of Scottish Football right now instead of its slow death.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/d...045549702.html

In the Olympics, World Champions, Olympic Champions and favourites for the event get no special treatment but the authorities show that their game is above any of the individuals involved regardless of their perceived status. No fudging the issue, changing the rules or down right corruption and they earn the respect of the sporting world. Furthermore, the Chinese Olympic Authorities come right in behind the Olympic Authorities and demand that their cheating players make a humbling public apology. Everyone is left in no doubt about integrity in the sport, the countries involved and the Olympic Authorities retain the respect of the world even if the individuals concerned must learn a stark and costly lesson.

Sadly we must contrast with the Scottish Football Authorities and the people running Rangers Football Club in Administration. Everything that they have done has been to the detriment of the game here and it may never recover.

The Football Authorities had to be forced in to making a decision and, even then, contrive to work with smoke and mirrors in an attempt to hide the fact that they have not actually punished Rangers Football Club in administration at all. What’s more, they have colluded in promoting a myth that the new club, now trading as The Rangers, is in fact the old club, soon to be liquidated, and all is well with the game.
Finally, throughout the whole process, the arguments for keeping a form of Rangers in the league has consisted of so much negativity about our national sport that it could only be a self fulfilling prophesy. Reagan tells the nutters there will be unrest and now we are told he requires protection from terrorists. Doncaster tells the media world that we cannot do without a Rangers, and opened the door to every sponsor and TV broadcaster inviting them to slash their contribution to this game because he has told them Scottish Football is inferior. Some business tactic that. Instead Reagan had an opportunity to advance the cause of common sense and decency while Doncaster had the most wonderful opportunity to promote our game in Scotland as the cleanest and best in the world to be associated with.

Somebody needs to tell the people running Scottish football that when you are in a dirty hole you need to stop digging. They have made a mess of every stage of this process. I fear that it is already too late but the licence thing is perhaps the last opportunity that they have to show some balls. Even then they have started by making an unconstitutional change to the rules and the fudge gets ever more sickly sweet.
I despair of our game and our society and I am sickened by Scottish Football in its failure to use the influence it has on society and culture in this country to make things better.

Perhaps we should ask the Olympic Badminton people to step in because right now it is Olympic Badminton 8 Scottish Football 0

Well said

[Part/Time Supporter]

Ridiculous overblown nonsense.

Rangers failed financially, therefore they have to start again at the bottom. That's what has happened. They are being fully punished for deliberate non-payment of tax and will be punished for dual contracts by removing the relevant trophies, if convicted.

Your motivation appears to be a desire to remove Rangers from the face of the earth (vengeance) rather than justice. By your analogy, the badminton players should be prevented from playing ever again. They won't.

[down-the-slope]

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I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding here. The SPL payouts include all sponsorship/TV incomes minus the cost of running the SPL - it's not simply a case of taking the TV deal and divvying it up to get the magic numbers. For a number of reasons I think he's underestimating the financial impact and, for example:

• the league has lost an additional 2.7 million international TV rights deal
• there will be an additional £1 million payment made to the SFL for TV rights

I'm not saying for a second that it's armageddon time, but I wouldn't be surprised if the financial impact is closer to (a more meaty) 10% of St. Johnstone revenues rather than (a marginal) 3%.

you are much closer to the reality than most...add to the fact that TV exposure / viewers is part of the calculation of all sponsorship of the league then the potential for reductions in all of those is also there

[The Green Goblin]

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Ridiculous overblown nonsense.

Rangers failed financially, therefore they have to start again at the bottom. That's what has happened. They are being fully punished for deliberate non-payment of tax and will be punished for dual contracts by removing the relevant trophies, if convicted.

Your motivation appears to be a desire to remove Rangers from the face of the earth (vengeance) rather than justice. By your analogy, the badminton players should be prevented from playing ever again. They won't.

"Rangers" are starting at the bottom in spite of the efforts of the game's governing bodies to let them off. I think the op makes a good point: we are in no doubt that those whose job it is to protect the integrity of olympic badminton acted quickly and properly when they were called upon to do so. Can we say the same of the football authorities in Scotland?

[CentreLine]

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Ridiculous overblown nonsense.

Rangers failed financially, therefore they have to start again at the bottom. That's what has happened. They are being fully punished for deliberate non-payment of tax and will be punished for dual contracts by removing the relevant trophies, if convicted.

Your motivation appears to be a desire to remove Rangers from the face of the earth (vengeance) rather than justice. By your analogy, the badminton players should be prevented from playing ever again. They won't.

You need to read my post over again. I have suggested none of the above.

Sadly Rangers Football Club no longer exists (or will no longer exisit after the liquidators are in place) and nowhere do I suggest that the disqualified players should never play again. In fact, my inference is that, by acting quickly and decisively, the Olympic Authorities have probably ensured that they can compete again with their credibility intact. This is something the Scottish Football Authorities failed to do with Rangers FC.

IMHO no punishment should be applied to the company emerging as The Rangers, they should simply have been allowed to work their way in to Scottish football within the rules and, as I have stated in previous posts, The Rangers will become anything their supporters wish them to become. My issue is with the failure of the Scottish Football authorities to act decisively and fairly within the rules and also the present Scottish Football in the best possible light.

Your own post is therefore ill-considered, ridiculous, overblown nonsense but that is only my opinion

[Kojock]

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You need to read my post over again. I have suggested none of the above.

Sadly Rangers Football Club no longer exists and nowhere do I suggest that the disqualified players should never play again. In fact, my inference is that, by acting quickly and decisively, the Olympic Authorities have probably ensured that they can compete again with their credibility intact. This is something the Scottish Football Authorities failed to do with Rangers FC.

IMHO no punishment should be applied to the company emerging as The Rangers, they should simply have been allowed to work their way in to Scottish football within the rules and, as I have stated in previous posts, The Rangers will become anything their supporters wish them to become. My issue is with the failure of the Scottish Football authorities to act decisively and fairly within the rules and also the present Scottish Football in the best possible light.

Your own post is therefore ill-considered, ridiculous, overblown nonsense but that is only my opinion

Not according to the advert for the forthcoming game against East Fife. It ends RANGERS THEN-RANGERS NOW-RANGERS FOREVER.

[CentreLine]

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Not according to the advert for the forthcoming game against East Fife. It ends RANGERS THEN-RANGERS NOW-RANGERS FOREVER.

Post amended. I have added "(or will no longer exisit after the liquidators are in place)"
Many thanks

[Lucius Apuleius]

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Not according to the advert for the forthcoming game against East Fife. It ends RANGERS THEN-RANGERS NOW-RANGERS FOREVER.

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Post amended. I have added "(or will no longer exisit after the liquidators are in place)"
Many thanks

Pretty sure they bought the name Rangers along with everything else. Get used to it, it is not going away.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Pretty sure they bought the name Rangers along with everything else. Get used to it, it is not going away.

They did.

[Part/Time Supporter]

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You need to read my post over again. I have suggested none of the above.

Sadly Rangers Football Club no longer exists (or will no longer exisit after the liquidators are in place) and nowhere do I suggest that the disqualified players should never play again. In fact, my inference is that, by acting quickly and decisively, the Olympic Authorities have probably ensured that they can compete again with their credibility intact. This is something the Scottish Football Authorities failed to do with Rangers FC.

IMHO no punishment should be applied to the company emerging as The Rangers, they should simply have been allowed to work their way in to Scottish football within the rules and, as I have stated in previous posts, The Rangers will become anything their supporters wish them to become. My issue is with the failure of the Scottish Football authorities to act decisively and fairly within the rules and also the present Scottish Football in the best possible light.

Your own post is therefore ill-considered, ridiculous, overblown nonsense but that is only my opinion

Which would have meant locking them out of the league structure, despite the SFL clubs voting 29-1 to admit them into their league at the bottom level.

[CentreLine]

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Which would have meant locking them out of the league structure, despite the SFL clubs voting 29-1 to admit them into their league at the bottom level.

I don't get your point. You must understand that "The Rangers" are not and never can be "Rangers Football Club". Anything else that follows from that situation should have been and should still be done within the rules. The Olympic Committe showed integrity and balanced leadership whilst the Scottish Football Authorities have failed at every turn to do so. Their failure has done irreparable damage to Scottish Football.

[Part/Time Supporter]

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I don't get your point. You must understand that "The Rangers" are not and never can be "Rangers Football Club". Anything else that follows from that situation should have been and should still be done within the rules. The Olympic Committe showed integrity and balanced leadership whilst the Scottish Football Authorities have failed at every turn to do so. Their failure has done irreparable damage to Scottish Football.

Green bought the business and assets from Rangers FC plc, which is Rangers Football Club. This included their memberships of the SFA and SPL. I think you're attaching too great an importance to the survival of the body corporate. By that logic, Hibernian FC could no longer have existed if Mercer had bought a 75% majority and liquidated the operating company.

[VickMackie]

Would it surprise anyone of Johnston votes with Celtic to keep the tv rights the same for when his beloved get back to the top?

[CentreLine]

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Green bought the business and assets from Rangers FC plc, which is Rangers Football Club. This included their memberships of the SFA and SPL. I think you're attaching too great an importance to the survival of the body corporate. By that logic, Hibernian FC could no longer have existed if Mercer had bought a 75% majority and liquidated the operating company.

Nope. But I am attaching a great deal of importance to the survival of Scottish football. That was and is the point of my post. I think you have attached to great an importance to Rangers Football Club which, for me, is what the governing body has done. It has been nice chatting but we are in danger of getting one of these and I think we are going to have to agree to differ

[StevieC]

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Would it surprise anyone of Johnston votes with Celtic to keep the tv rights the same for when his beloved get back to the top?

It would surprise me, because Killie are a team that will desperately need a bigger share of TV money and getting that, to the detriment of Celtic, is something he'll be aiming for.

[VickMackie]

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It would surprise me, because Killie are a team that will desperately need a bigger share of TV money and getting that, to the detriment of Celtic, is something he'll be aiming for.

Good point.

I do have a suspicion though that if it's not done and dusted early in the season, even if it starts next season, then those nearer the top end might vote to keep it the same.

[jgl07]

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Which would have meant locking them out of the league structure, despite the SFL clubs voting 29-1 to admit them into their league at the bottom level.

If 'Rangers' were trated as a completely new entity they would escape all punishments.

However they would only be able to play outside the SFL - probably in the East of Scotland Seniors - for three years while they accumulated the necessary set of account before they could apply for SFA membership. Then they would be eligible to apply for any vacancy that arose in the SFL.

The fact that they have been admitted to SFL3 and been viewed as a continuation of the 'old' Rangers suggested that the should be made responsible for football debts as well as any punishments handed down regading dual contracts and other malpractice.

[Hibs Class]

Not sure how new this news is but it was posted on the BBc last evening - the commission to investigate the EBTs.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19102870

[Part/Time Supporter]

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Good point.

I do have a suspicion though that if it's not done and dusted early in the season, even if it starts next season, then those nearer the top end might vote to keep it the same.

The funny thing is, without Rangers in the SPL, having a disproportionate amount of prize money for finishing second kind of makes sense. It (in all likelihood) rewards the team that finishes best of the rest. Whereas before it was just guaranteed income for whichever OF team was losing.

[Steve-O]

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You need to read my post over again. I have suggested none of the above.

Sadly Rangers Football Club no longer exists (or will no longer exisit after the liquidators are in place) and nowhere do I suggest that the disqualified players should never play again. In fact, my inference is that, by acting quickly and decisively, the Olympic Authorities have probably ensured that they can compete again with their credibility intact. This is something the Scottish Football Authorities failed to do with Rangers FC.

IMHO no punishment should be applied to the company emerging as The Rangers, they should simply have been allowed to work their way in to Scottish football within the rules and, as I have stated in previous posts, The Rangers will become anything their supporters wish them to become. My issue is with the failure of the Scottish Football authorities to act decisively and fairly within the rules and also the present Scottish Football in the best possible light.

Your own post is therefore ill-considered, ridiculous, overblown nonsense but that is only my opinion

So what do you think about the fact they've basically kept the name, the badge, the strips, the stadium, the training ground, the manager, the coaching staff, a number of players and the history? And that they are openly stating 'Rangers will always be Rangers' etc. They had the chance to start afresh IMO, and they've blown it. They can also face the consequences of even being associated with the cheats of 2001-2011.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Not sure how new this news is but it was posted on the BBc last evening - the commission to investigate the EBTs.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19102870

Yeah, I saw that.

A few points:-

1. I am not sure how the commission differs from the legal firm that were appointed in the first place. Perhaps the lawyers have assembled the evidence, and it will be up to the commission to hear that, and to hear counter-arguments from the other side.

2. who are "the other side"? Is it NewHun or OldHun?

3. like the SFA tribunal, I am pleased to see that the commission will be independent. Although the anti-Doncaster lobby might see this as him washing his hands of any responsibility for a nasty verdict for Rangers, I think it is a sign of transparency.

[CentreLine]

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So what do you think about the fact they've basically kept the name, the badge, the strips, the stadium, the training ground, the manager, the coaching staff, a number of players and the history? And that they are openly stating 'Rangers will always be Rangers' etc. They had the chance to start afresh IMO, and they've blown it. They can also face the consequences of even being associated with the cheats of 2001-2011.

I think this is a symptom of the failure of the Scottish Football Authorities to apply the rules properly and clear steps in creating the myth that Rangers FC still exist. But everyone knows that is not the case. The new club will become whatever its followers want it to become but it is not and never can be Rangers FC. But what we have is a completely new entity that has purchased the good will and assets of a soon to be defunct company. There will always be people living in denial and thinking it is the same thing and there is nothing wrong with that. Lots of people put a great deal of importance on football clubs and live their lives through the success or failure of those clubs. Rangers fans are as entitled to that as any other.

After the failure of the CVA nobody could prevent the end of Rangers Football Club and when it folded everything about it was consigned to history. It is the memory of that club and not the club itself that will survive. People will do everything they can to pretend that the club brings with it its history and past successes and the Scottish Football Authorities and media are working hard to that end.

Opinions eh?

[Hibs Class]

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Yeah, I saw that.

A few points:-

1. I am not sure how the commission differs from the legal firm that were appointed in the first place. Perhaps the lawyers have assembled the evidence, and it will be up to the commission to hear that, and to hear counter-arguments from the other side.

2. who are "the other side"? Is it NewHun or OldHun?

3. like the SFA tribunal, I am pleased to see that the commission will be independent. Although the anti-Doncaster lobby might see this as him washing his hands of any responsibility for a nasty verdict for Rangers, I think it is a sign of transparency.

Agree. The article doesn't name the members and I haven't done any digging, but it can only be a matter of time before there are calls for their identities to be disclosed "in the interests of full transparency"

[Caversham Green]

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The funny thing is, without Rangers in the SPL, having a disproportionate amount of prize money for finishing second kind of makes sense. It (in all likelihood) rewards the team that finishes best of the rest. Whereas before it was just guaranteed income for whichever OF team was losing.

I was thinking the same thing. While Rangers are out of the SPL, keeping the current shares will help some clubs from the bottom 11 to survive the armageddon that will surely be upon us in the next few days. Also, the clubs that aspire to second place might elect to keep thing the way they are.

They should be changing the voting structure though, that's the first step to changing the income-sharing but one doesn't have to follow the other immediately. Maybe they should also be looking at gate-sharing before the distribution of TV money as well.

[s.a.m]

Chris Musson‏@camusson SPL:"At eight minutes past ten this morning, the member clubs unanimously approved the transfer of Rangers’ SPL share to Dundee" #ohthedrama

[Caversham Green]

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I think this is a symptom of the failure of the Scottish Football Authorities to apply the rules properly and clear steps in creating the myth that Rangers FC still exist. But everyone knows that is not the case. The new club will become whatever its followers want it to become but it is not and never can be Rangers FC. But what we have is a completely new entity that has purchased the good will and assets of a soon to be defunct company. There will always be people living in denial and thinking it is the same thing and there is nothing wrong with that. Lots of people put a great deal of importance on football clubs and live their lives through the success or failure of those clubs. Rangers fans are as entitled to that as any other.

After the failure of the CVA nobody could prevent the end of Rangers Football Club and when it folded everything about it was consigned to history. It is the memory of that club and not the club itself that will survive. People will do everything they can to pretend that the club brings with it its history and past successes and the Scottish Football Authorities and media are working hard to that end.

Opinions eh?

The SFA and SPL rules could be interpreted as giving a club a separate identity from the company that operates it, so it's arguable that Rangers Football Club survived the demise of The Rangers Football Club plc - it's not an interpretation I would agree with, but the possibility is there. That being the case though, the SPL had no grounds for refusing the transfer of the share and Sevco should still be in the SPL subject to sanctions arising from the SFA hearing and potential sanctions from the EBT investigation. There's no doubt that in civil law they have avoided their financial obligations through administration/liquidation.

The alternative as you suggest is treating them as a completely new club with no obligations carrying over from the old one, but concessions have already been made by allowing that club to enter the league structure several steps higher than they should have and allowing them to use the name 'Rangers'. This means that Sevco are now neither one thing nor the other as a result of weak management by the authorities, but they seem to be gravitating more towards the continuation side, so they need to face the charges raised against the club when it was operated by the company that is now approaching liquidation. They would be allowed to keep the club's history though, subject to amendment for seasons where the old company fielded ineligible players.

[Jim44]

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Chris Musson‏@camusson SPL:"At eight minutes past ten this morning, the member clubs unanimously approved the transfer of Rangers’ SPL share to Dundee" #ohthedrama

Presumably from the same meeting, Doncaster saying that the loss of cash to SPL clubs from TV deals could be a 7 figure sum. That could be £9.9M or it could be £1M. Why the vagueness from this balloon? He's only happy when he's painting pictures of doom and gloom.

[green glory]

Just back from hols, did the Currents get their full SFA membership in time for this weekend's glamour clash with Peterhead?

[Spike Mandela]

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Just back from hols, did the Currents get their full SFA membership in time for this weekend's glamour clash with Peterhead?

Full membership just announced official.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19120224