Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[calmac12000]

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Nobody's been conned. Nobody's suggesting you sign their stupid petition. My simple point which I think is quite clear is, 'why were we singled out from all the supporters of the other 10 SPL clubs as being the most likely to sign.' Whether we actually share their desire to get rid of Regan is neither here nor there. Furthermore the reference to Lawwell is immaterial to my point.

Apologies, had a long day and the old grey matter wasn't functioning

[Seveno]

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This is an astonishing letter. Stuart Regan stands accused of outright lying to SFL and SPL clubs.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/...brass.18111915

There can be no place for Doncaster and Regan in Scottish football after this, no matter what state it is in.

If they had a shred of decency, they would go now. Even Bankers have got the message.

[PatHead]

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There can be no place for Doncaster and Regan in Scottish football after this, no matter what state it is in.

If they had a shred of decency, they would go now. Even Bankers have got the message.

That Banker is still on £2m per annum for the foreseeable that's how much decency he has got. You have answered yourself by including decency and Doncaster/Regan in the same sentences. They wouldn't know the meaning of it.

[ScottB]

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There can be no place for Doncaster and Regan in Scottish football after this, no matter what state it is in.

If they had a shred of decency, they would go now. Even Bankers have got the message.

Who is going to make them quit though?

I made this point many pages ago. There is no vehicle for removing these guys from Office. The fans have no say in who runs the game, these two could merrily carry on for years to come, or of course follow the Banker method and leave with a generous severance settlement and pension.


I think moving forward, fans need to be given a say in who runs the game, either directly or indirectly. Forcing those who seek these jobs to put forward their vision for the game and build support, rather than being appointed in a dark Boardroom by a cadre of Chairmen / Businessmen.

[Saorsa]

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There can be no place for Doncaster and Regan in Scottish football after this, no matter what state it is in.

If they had a shred of decency, they would go now. Even Bankers have got the message.

Too bad they wouldnae ken what that was if it walked up and smacked them right between the eyes.

[virtualhibby]

From alex thomson twitter;

Having seen STV list I can say it is definitely 14 - 3 pro D3. At least one of the 'undecideds' is 100% opposed to D1.

[Don Giovanni]

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The rules should have and should still be followed which would avoid this bringing of our national sport into disrepute.

The most galling thing for me is that it is our games' leaders that have brought it into disprepute. Their insistance on bending and breaking the rules for the benefit of a new company is unbelieveable. Doncaster and Regan are supposed to be the ones insisting that the rules and regulations are followed - not advising that they be ignored / changed / disregarded to suit their (newcos) agenda.

It is clear that these two charlatans are not fit for purpose..., and whilst I'm on me soap box the man at the very top (Ogilvy) should have been put on gardening leave pending serious investigation anaw.

This whole sorry episode has disgraced our footballing authorities.

[calmac12000]

It is blatantly obvious that the "desperate duo" are incapable of conceivingof a strong and healthy Scottish game without the presence of the corruption represented by Rangers/SEVCO.
Someone, somewhere must have put this notion into their psyche, to the extent that they are willing to overlook their primary responsibility i.e. the interests of their member clubs in favour of this delusion. If the existence of a nefarious conspiracy is deemed not to be true then the only credible explanation must be that these two gentlemen, have acted with an almost unheard of degree of incompetence.
I find nether argument totally convincing and suspect the truth is a mixture of the two.
Where this leaves Scottish football is an urgent need for a root and branch reform, with no sacred cows left unmolested. If we don't take this opportunity to divorce the game we love from corruption, sectarianism and blatant cheating it is unworthy of survival in the modern era.

[lapsedhibee]

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Where this leaves Scottish football is an urgent need for a root and branch reform, with no sacred cows left unmolested.

I fancy Donkey "Neil" Doncaster might be well up for a bit of ruminant-molesting. He's just got a look about him.

[StevieC]

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From alex thomson twitter;
Having seen STV list I can say it is definitely 14 - 3 pro D3. At least one of the 'undecideds' is 100% opposed to D1.

I think the problem is still the actual vote.

As it stands it is still unclear and even just allowing Rangers/Sevco to play in the league might allow the SFL board the ability to "place" them in Division 1.

Looking at the actual wording of the vote ..

(i) That the Scottish Football League Members agree to admit Sevco Scotland Limited as an Associate Member and agrees to permit Rangers F.C. to play in the League during Season 2012/13.

There is nothing in this vote that says that they will automatically play in Division 3. The SFA/SFL/SPL have already said that the rules can be bent to allow Rangers into Division 1 so a YES vote here could pave the way for an SFA/SFL/SPL stitch up.

(ii) That the Scottish Football League Members direct the Board of Management of The Scottish Football League (the “Board”) to provide that Rangers F.C. shall play in the Third Division of the Scottish Football League during Season 2012/13 unless the Board shall have to its satisfaction negotiated and reached agreement with The Scottish Premier League and The Scottish Football Association on a series of measures which the Board shall consider to be in the best interests of the game, how it is structured, how it is governed and how it is financed, whereupon the Board shall be authorised to provide that Rangers F.C. shall play in the First Division of the Scottish Football League during Season 2012/13.

This is the YES vote that will send Rangers straight into Division 1. It is worded in such a way that the SFA/SFL/SPL will basically do whatever they want without any recourse or comeback. I suspect that, like the SPL vote, this option is there more out of hope than expectation. However, a NO vote does not necessarily kill Rangers chances of Division 1 .. please refer to the wording of section (i).


(iii) That the Scottish Football League Members in terms of Rule 12 approve the resignation of either Dundee F.C. or Dunfermline Athletic F.C., whichever shall be admitted to join the Scottish Premier League for Season 2012/13, such resignation to take effect as at the date of admission of such club to the Scottish Premier League, notwithstanding that the requisite notice under Rule 12 shall not have been given.Details of the series of measures referred to at (ii) above shall be made available to the Members in advance of the meeting and an opportunity for full discussion of those measures will be given prior to the proposals being put to the meeting.

It seems strange that Dundee have been told they are unable to vote, and yet they have also named Dunfermline in the wording of this vote? They also state in this proposal that details of the measures at (ii) (Rangers punishment/penalties) will be provided prior to the meeting? Do they mean the meeting on the 13th or a future meeting where they decide whether it is Dundee or Dunfermline that goes up?

IMHO, I think that the proposals are far from clear and really need some clarification before being put to the SFL clubs. If they are not clarified I can actually see a postponement of any voting. A delay that would, IMO, put Rangers into the wilderness for a season (and potentially an 11 team league).

[PatHead]

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From alex thomson twitter;

Having seen STV list I can say it is definitely 14 - 3 pro D3. At least one of the 'undecideds' is 100% opposed to D1.

Doesn't matter how they vote. Regan and Doncaster will fix it for newco. That is the sad thing about this sham.

[magpie1892]

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Doesn't matter how they vote. Regan and Doncaster will fix it for newco. That is the sad thing about this sham.

I honestly don't think they can, and I honestly do think they are finally realising it.

[Bishop Hibee]

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I honestly don't think they can, and I honestly do think they are finally realising it.

Fingers crossed. If, and its a big if, it means clubs go bust then so be it. Any current SPL club that went bust would be back applying for Div 3 in some shape or form within a year or two.

[jamieross]

Dont know if its been posted already. McGregor in talks with Besiktas http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18784045

[magpie1892]

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Fingers crossed. If, and its a big if, it means clubs go bust then so be it. Any current SPL club that went bust would be back applying for Div 3 in some shape or form within a year or two.

I still think there's a reasonable chance we'll never see a team in blue play at Ibrox ever again. Wishful thinking, perhaps, but this situation is beyond Doncaster and Regan now. HMRC are waiting to strike, and they're atop a long queue.

[magpie1892]

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Dont know if its been posted already. McGregor in talks with Besiktas http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18784045

Liking the headline. Someone at BBC online is 'off message'...

[jgl07]

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Fingers crossed. If, and its a big if, it means clubs go bust then so be it. Any current SPL club that went bust would be back applying for Div 3 in some shape or form within a year or two.

And why would six SPL club go bust?

The only SPL team with unsustainable debts is Hearts.

Other clubs could be in financial difficulty if the TV money was pulled from under them. However this would only be to the extent that they had taken on more in terms of players contracts than could be justified in the current state of the SPL.

The obvious route would be Administration in the way that Motherwell did it rather than the D&P type fiasco. The Administrators come in and clear the player out whose contracts cannot be afforded. The bulk of the debts would likely reside with the owners so a CVA can be agreed and after a points penalty they could be back in business.

Over the years three Scottish clubs have been liquidated: Third Lanark, Airdrieonians, and Gretna. We will soon be able to add number four Rangers. Lots of teams have been in Administration some more than once including Livingston and Dundee.

I do not beleive that the situation is that much worse than the situation when the Sky TV deal was rejected ten years back at a time when clubs were paying big wages or when Satanta went bust.

[DCI Gene Hunt]

People seem to be assuming that this Sevco90210 or whatever they're called are actually going to be voted into the SFL, never mind joining Div3. From what I've seen most of the clubs aren't very welcoming of Phoenix Rangersto start with, they might be lucky to get Div3 never mind Div1.

I can see this rumbling on into the new season with no resolve, eventually Donkey and Ranger will be forced to go, Sevco might get shoehorned if they'ew lucky into Div3 at the last minute with some whinging from Traynor, Daily Record and the other slavering talking heads, and by Autumn the dust will have settled and it'll be all quiet again, with the possibility of slightly fairer football for the time being in the SPL with the OF's stranglehold on the sport partially broken and one half flung into the lower leagues for the next few seasons.

Just my tuppence.

Gene

[green glory]

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People seem to be assuming that this Sevco90210 or whatever they're called are actually going to be voted into the SFL, never mind joining Div3. From what I've seen most of the clubs aren't very welcoming of Phoenix Rangersto start with, they might be lucky to get Div3 never mind Div1.

I can see this rumbling on into the new season with no resolve, eventually Donkey and Ranger will be forced to go, Sevco might get shoehorned if they'ew lucky into Div3 at the last minute with some whinging from Traynor, Daily Record and the other slavering talking heads, and by Autumn the dust will have settled and it'll be all quiet again, with the possibility of slightly fairer football for the time being in the SPL with the OF's stranglehold on the sport partially broken and one half flung into the lower leagues for the next few seasons.

Just my tuppence.

Gene

Correct. People are also forgetting when the oldco officially go into liquidation in only a few weeks, BDO, HMRC's liquidators will be looking at every aspect of this whole sorry/hilarious affair with a microscope. If they deem the asset transfer was done below market value it could very well be jumpers for goalposts in the streets of Govan.

[Moulin Yarns]

Alex Thomson on the answers from UEFA and FIFA

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...ng-bodies/2235

[ScottB]

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And why would six SPL club go bust?

The only SPL team with unsustainable debts is Hearts.

Other clubs could be in financial difficulty if the TV money was pulled from under them. However this would only be to the extent that they had taken on more in terms of players contracts than could be justified in the current state of the SPL.

The obvious route would be Administration in the way that Motherwell did it rather than the D&P type fiasco. The Administrators come in and clear the player out whose contracts cannot be afforded. The bulk of the debts would likely reside with the owners so a CVA can be agreed and after a points penalty they could be back in business.

Over the years three Scottish clubs have been liquidated: Third Lanark, Airdrieonians, and Gretna. We will soon be able to add number four Rangers. Lots of teams have been in Administration some more than once including Livingston and Dundee.

I do not beleive that the situation is that much worse than the situation when the Sky TV deal was rejected ten years back at a time when clubs were paying big wages or when Satanta went bust.

Indeed. Administration is a problem when the largest creditor is one that will be 'unsympathetic' so basically HMRC. Most clubs would bounce back, simply because the debt will be to an owner as you say.

Hearts are a special messed up case of their own, given that I can't see Vlad ever agreeing to a CVA, but still.

Killie seem to have a truckload of debt, they seem like candidates for administration some point soon. But even then, you'd think of so many clubs were 'on the edge' they'd currently be punting every player they could and reducing their wage bill, yet I see no signs of that, at least no more than any other day.


Of course if anything we are best placed, given that STF has been stated to be ready to 'save' the club from any future difficulties, so we have a safety net lest things really go mammaries skyward in the SPL...

[CropleyWasGod]

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I think the problem is still the actual vote.

As it stands it is still unclear and even just allowing Rangers/Sevco to play in the league might allow the SFL board the ability to "place" them in Division 1.

Looking at the actual wording of the vote ..

(i) That the Scottish Football League Members agree to admit Sevco Scotland Limited as an Associate Member and agrees to permit Rangers F.C. to play in the League during Season 2012/13.

There is nothing in this vote that says that they will automatically play in Division 3. The SFA/SFL/SPL have already said that the rules can be bent to allow Rangers into Division 1 so a YES vote here could pave the way for an SFA/SFL/SPL stitch up.

(.

The rules are quite clear Stevie (99.2 I think) that, if a vacancy arises in the SFL, it is in the bottom league.

[Moulin Yarns]

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The rules are quite clear Stevie (99.2 I think) that, if a vacancy arises in the SFL, it is in the bottom league.

Clyde wanting clarification on the voting. But I agree, the first vote should be "do we let that bunch into the SFL?" and the second vote (if required) should be will we let them play in the Third, second or first division?

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/c...division-vote/

[PatHead]

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Clyde wanting clarification on the voting. But I agree, the first vote should be "do we let that bunch into the SFL?" and the second vote (if required) should be will we let them play in the Third, second or first division?

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/c...division-vote/

I really don't see why there should be a second vote at all. Rules say 3rd division so they should go there with no special treatment

[CropleyWasGod]

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I really don't see why there should be a second vote at all. Rules say 3rd division so they should go there with no special treatment

Longmuir himself said, last week, that the rules would need to be changed if Sevco were voted into D1. My question is... why can't they try and change the rules first?

[KiddA]

What a shocking article, Craig Burley is a grade A P##CK

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footbal...6908-23906004/

What a clueless w##ker he is he should be made to apologize to every club he just brought down.

[Deek01]

Complete and utter pr!ck

[Pretty Boy]

He sums up his own article perfectly

'The knuckle draggers- always the ones who make the most noise- have succeeded in making their voice heard.'

Craig Burley is the king Fud in all the kingdom of fuddery.

[Saorsa]

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What a shocking article, Craig Burley is a grade A P##CK

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footbal...6908-23906004/

What a clueless w##ker he is he should be made to apologize to every club he just brought down.

you were expecting anything else from that publication or the cretins that write for it?

[blackpoolhibs]

He's part of that west coast media, that think the world revolves around two teams. He's just a dick who thinks he's the Scottish Mark Lawrenson.