Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[blackpoolhibs]

We now know without any doubt, those at the top of OUR game are corrupt. Where does this corruption stop, every dodgy decision that goes against us now, every penalty?

The seed of doubt has gone, we know the SPL and the SFA will fight to give rantic preferential treatment. Could referee's and linesmen be next on their radar, make sure both teams win, we cant have any teams beating their favorites, am i wrong or too late?

[JimBHibees]

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Sorry if already posted: -

http://www.scottishfootballblog.co.u...evolution.html

Rangers newco: Looking for a revolution




A drookit summer has seen Scottish football drowning in uncertainty and indecision.

We finally got a decision yesterday. The SPL chairmen voted against letting the Rangers newco into the top flight.

That was hardly surprising. Some of the chairmen - 10 said "no" - might have voted with a heavy heart and some might very well be daft.

But not daft enough to risk losing the core of their own support.

A predictable decision and not one that removed much uncertainty.

Too many clubs - the Rangers newco among them - don't yet know what league they will be playing in when the season kicks off in just a few weeks.

That the SPL saying "no" would force Rangers into the Third Division seemed the most plausible outcome until a few days ago.

Then the argument that the only way for Scottish football to survive was to parachute Rangers into the First Division was unleashed.

If the SFL clubs didn't agree then the SPL - whose role in all this should have ended yesterday when they said an emphatic "no" - would engineer a breakaway SPL2 to accommodate the newco.

Last night that theme was picked up by the SFA's Stewart Regan in a series of quotes that should - in a game governed by any sanity - disqualify him from holding office.

He has certainly destroyed any lingering hope that the SFA will adopt a neutral stance in any of this.

I don't really care that Regan diminishes himself with every utterance. I do care that he diminishes our game when he's doing it.

When a director of a First Division club stands on the steps of Hampden and denounces our game as "corrupt" then something is rotten to the core.

And for what?

Regan is giving up. Aided and abetted by the SPL's Neil Doncaster - who should really be run out of Hampden forthwith - he's surrendering.

He's seeking comfort in a broken business model. His vision of Scottish football is one where any real change is possible only if it suits the needs of television companies whose commitment to Scotland is half hearted at best.

He's saying that we can only thrive if we fix the game to allow a quick route back to the top flight for a club that has seen the most gargantuan mismanagement in Scottish football history.

A quick fix that most fans of that club seem to reject themselves.

He's saying that it's OK to bully lower league clubs if it provides solace for all the SPL clubs who have mismanaged their own finances.

And he's turning this cowardice on it's head and painting himself as some sort of hero.

He sees something heroic in saying that he's worked out a way to return as quickly as possible to a flawed status quo.

We deserve more. More than Regan and Doncaster, a couple of middle ranking marketing men who have fallen into the trap of believing their own lies.

More than footballing authorities who care not a jot for moving the game forward.

What could we learn from this long, bleak summer?

We know that fans care about the future, that they're prepared to speak up and show their passion.

Would the future of the Scottish game be better served by harnessing that passion or by allowing Regan to disenfranchise more and more supporters?

We've seen that the SPL experiment has failed. It's failed to create a sustainable model for its clubs, failed to create an environment that could predict or halt a huge corporate collapse in its midst.

The SPL was the game's attempt to hitch a lift to a promised land, to the riches of unfettered sporting capitalism. Scottish football didn't get there. It got run over and left behind.

Greed, chasing the quick buck, canoodling with corporate sponsors and ignoring the fans hasn't worked.

But the fans are still there. They still care.

Could we not take the positives from that and create a more sustainable game, a more sensible game?

A new football model for Scotland that has fans and communities at its heart? A game that we could again be proud of?

It won't be easy. Of course it won't.

But if Dundee United or Hibs, Hearts or Aberdeen, Kilmarnock or Elgin, Cowdenbeath or Stranraer are surviving only on the back of four Old Firm games a season and 30 pieces of Sky's silver then we need to make hard decisions.

We need to reinvent. We need to involve the fans in that reinvention.

And we need to do it quickly.

It will take vision though. It will take inspiration.

When we look for vision or inspiration at Hampden what do we find?

Stewart Regan and Neil Doncaster.

Their vision condemns us to relive the mistakes of the past. Their vision won't halt the "slow, lingering death" of Scottish football it will only perpetuate it.

Don't believe them, stand up to them. Tell your club how you feel, shout it from the rooftops.

Every fan of every club should have had enough of being let down by non entities like this.

It's our game and they are our clubs.

Now is the time to prove it.

Great article and completely spot on.

[GreenPJ]

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Great article and completely spot on.

Judging by the statements made by Cowdenbeath and Clyde boards along with fans comments on the media sites I can't help but think that Doncaster and Reagan's response to the SPL no vote and the vivid language and scaremongering they have been using has only helped drive them closer to the conclusion that they don't want.

[Lungo--Drom]

Well they say most murders are the result of an issue related to sex or murder so I agree with what you are saying.

So they are running about like Abbott & Costello for one of those things. Sex or money. Probably money like you say. But perhaps also blackmail? Perhaps someone, or rather somehun, has threatened to:
A) kill them
B) expose the "sauna photographs"
C) burn their houses down
D) expose their complicity/duplicity in the long running pro-Hun or pro-OF rotten apple cart

In other words, in all seriousness, perhaps someone with a lot of power or someone holding a lot of photographs is leaning on them big style? That's certainly the way they are behaving, like small time mobsters sweating to save their dough before the big boys come over from Chicago and fit them with Cuban ties.

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The question that always raises it's head in this fiasco - is who are Doncaster/Regan acting for?
And why are they running about like Abbott & Costello so desperately to have Rangers in SFL1 or SPL2 against the wishes of almost everyone?
There has to a massive motive - money is usually the culprit.
So what is the desperation?

Neil Doncaster presided over the signing of commercial contract's with a get-out clause for the partner's stipulating -
"If Rangers or Celtic leave the SPL the agreement is terminated."

What it should have said.........
"If Rangers or Celtic VOLUNTARILY leave the SPL the agreement is terminated."

This is the financial meltdown - caused by Doncaster's incompetence - he is to blame - it his fault for missing what is a standard item. Either of these clubs could leave the SPL if they were relegated and he didn't spot it. Now he's running about trying to save his own career and he has everyone in Scottish football up in arms. Crikey! Even 75% of Rangers fans accept they have to go to Div 3 and still we talk of forcing leagues; every fan spending time and emotion to block this; clubs wasting time; clubs being threatened; talk of social unrest, and all to save one man's career.
He blew it - he missed out one word - voluntarily. Boot him - we need a competent CE who won't bring financial meltdown upon us.
Regan has also bought into this and shown himself incompetent as a CE -boot him too.
All of this because of one man's inability to do his job is the only thing that make's sense in why a continual railroading is on the agenda.

[ScottB]

Herein lies the problem though: How do we get rid of the suits in charge of our game?

FIFA expressly forbids political involvement, so we can't ask the government to do it. We (the fans) have absolutely no power over the game, despite that without us there'd be nothing.

We need to find a way to get these guys out, then give the fans power. I'd like to see us able to vote for who we want to be in charge of the game. Candidates would serve fixed terms and have to campaign. I'd nominate that guy from Raith Rovers for a kick off.

[Billy Whizz]

Makes sense as soon as possible to sort out League's for this season

Dunfermline/Dundee into SPL
Newco into 3rd Division and sort out all the other teams in SFL 2/3 by knocking them up a place.

Seems simple or am I being to optimistic?

[Lix]

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We now know without any doubt, those at the top of OUR game are corrupt. Where does this corruption stop, every dodgy decision that goes against us now, every penalty?

The seed of doubt has gone, we know the SPL and the SFA will fight to give rantic preferential treatment. Could referee's and linesmen be next on their radar, make sure both teams win, we cant have any teams beating their favorites, am i wrong or too late?

This is it for me.
We have all suspected for most of our football watching lives that the playing field was more squint than the old Easter Road slope.... But we didn't want to believe that we were right, as that would mean the game was corrupt. Surely not?!!
I have followed the financial shenanigans with rapt attention throughout this whole sordid saga but never really thought we would end up here.
Some of the statements and behaviour of the Succulent Lamb media and those entrusted with our beloved game have frankly both shocked and appalled me. It had been way worse than any of our previous paranoid inclinations would have suggested.
I'm afraid the genie is out of the bottle now though.
The only way back (well forward actually) for the game in Scotland is to listen to the fans and put sporting integrity and fairness back at the front.
I actually think we're now at a point where that is the only feasible solution so am strangely encouraged about the future.

[Hibercelona]

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We (the fans) have absolutely no power over the game, despite that without us there'd be nothing.

Which is exactly what makes us the most powerful entity in the game!

Whats more powerful.... 10's (maybe even 100's) of thousands of football fans, or a few guys in suites with fancy titles?

We ARE the game and if they want to threaten us with their so called "proposals", then we should start fighting back with a few proposals of our own.

WE have the power to change the game for the better. Its OUR game.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Makes sense as soon as possible to sort out League's for this season

Dunfermline/Dundee into SPL
Newco into 3rd Division and sort out all the other teams in SFL 2/3 by knocking them up a place.

Seems simple or am I being to optimistic?

The more logical (if slightly biased) solution is this....



Leave the SFL1, 2 and 3 as it is, and have an 11 team SPL next season, with, either no relegation from the SPL or a play off to bring the number up to 12 for the following season, with the SFL bringing up clubs to create the vacancy in the SFL 3.

Benefits:

• all clubs are in the right league next season with no Dunfermline/Dundee debate
• Everybody knows the situation for the endo of next season
• Junior clubs have time to prepare their bids
• Oh aye, and no Rangers (in any form) next season

Problems:

• one SPL team have a free week every week
• eh, that's all

[IWasThere2016]

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for contacting the club and for expressing your views. I am sure that you will appreciate that the club has received an extraordinary number of emails and letters from supporters on this subject. Due to the volume of correspondence we are simply unable to reply to each email and letter by specifically responding to each point raised. I can assure you however that every comment has been read and fully understood by the Directors of the Club.

As regards the possible admission of a Rangers Newco to the SPL, the Club made it known some time ago that it would vote against such a proposal. The Club also made known its view that there should be no further delay and that a vote should proceed on 4 July 2012. As widely reported the vote took place on 4 July 2012 and Hibernian along with other clubs voted overwhelmingly to reject the admission of a Rangers Newco into the SPL. It is now certain that Rangers will not participate in the SPL for season 2012/13.

Rangers’ representatives have now confirmed that they will formally apply for admission to the SFL for season 2012/13. It will now be for other bodies to determine if and at what level Rangers might be accommodated within Scottish football from 2012/13 onwards.

This decision has been made at a difficult time for Scottish football and will mean that all SPL clubs will suffer some financial damage. Our Club, along with the others, will need every supporter to get behind their club and play a positive role in ensuring the future viability of our Club and of the professional game in Scotland.

Thank you again for your email and for your continued support of your Club.

Regards

Scott Lindsay/Rod Petrie

[CropleyWasGod]

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The more logical (if slightly biased) solution is this....



Leave the SFL1, 2 and 3 as it is, and have an 11 team SPL next season, with, either no relegation from the SPL or a play off to bring the number up to 12 for the following season, with the SFL bringing up clubs to create the vacancy in the SFL 3.

Benefits:

• all clubs are in the right league next season with no Dunfermline/Dundee debate
• Everybody knows the situation for the endo of next season
• Junior clubs have time to prepare their bids
• Oh aye, and no Rangers (in any form) next season

Problems:

• one SPL team have a free week every week
• eh, that's all

Less income from less home games.

What happens at the split?

[ScottB]

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Which is exactly what makes us the most powerful entity in the game!

Whats more powerful.... 10's (maybe even 100's) of thousands of football fans, or a few guys in suites with fancy titles?

We ARE the game and if they want to threaten us with their so called "proposals", then we should start fighting back with a few proposals of our own.

WE have the power to change the game for the better. Its OUR game.

Yes, but at present there is no means for us to exercise that power.

How do we do it? Do we boycott games, which will really only serve to weaken our own clubs? Do we boycott the handful of Scotland games a year then?

Thus far the powers at be have at every opportunity ignored the fans, be it the numerous petitions, our thoughts on League Reconstruction etc. The clubs have finally listened to us, perhaps they will do so again.


While we do have the power, using it is rather more difficult.

[JimBHibees]

I am actually starting to think the comments by Regan and Doncaster are part of a carefully planned campaign to try and mitigate the backlash and fallout with the Hun being dropped down. They are if you think about it in many ways protecting the clubs with their ludicrous pro-Rangers comments. It has in many ways taken the heat off the clubs at this time which is likely to lead in the end with the right decisions being made. One down one to go.

[JimBHibees]

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Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for contacting the club and for expressing your views. I am sure that you will appreciate that the club has received an extraordinary number of emails and letters from supporters on this subject. Due to the volume of correspondence we are simply unable to reply to each email and letter by specifically responding to each point raised. I can assure you however that every comment has been read and fully understood by the Directors of the Club.

As regards the possible admission of a Rangers Newco to the SPL, the Club made it known some time ago that it would vote against such a proposal. The Club also made known its view that there should be no further delay and that a vote should proceed on 4 July 2012. As widely reported the vote took place on 4 July 2012 and Hibernian along with other clubs voted overwhelmingly to reject the admission of a Rangers Newco into the SPL. It is now certain that Rangers will not participate in the SPL for season 2012/13.

Rangers’ representatives have now confirmed that they will formally apply for admission to the SFL for season 2012/13. It will now be for other bodies to determine if and at what level Rangers might be accommodated within Scottish football from 2012/13 onwards.

This decision has been made at a difficult time for Scottish football and will mean that all SPL clubs will suffer some financial damage. Our Club, along with the others, will need every supporter to get behind their club and play a positive role in ensuring the future viability of our Club and of the professional game in Scotland.

Thank you again for your email and for your continued support of your Club.

Regards

Scott Lindsay/Rod Petrie

A reasonable response I think.

[Hibercelona]

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Yes, but at present there is no means for us to exercise that power.

How do we do it? Do we boycott games, which will really only serve to weaken our own clubs? Do we boycott the handful of Scotland games a year then?

Thus far the powers at be have at every opportunity ignored the fans, be it the numerous petitions, our thoughts on League Reconstruction etc. The clubs have finally listened to us, perhaps they will do so again.


While we do have the power, using it is rather more difficult.

We do EVERYTHING we can to be heard.

We don't need to boycott games, but we can however create big banners to let our feelings be known, we can also get the fans from every club to come together and perform major protests against this.

People need to get angry. People don't get angry enough these days and just accept what their spoon fed.

[Twa Cairpets]

I was mystified that Regan could put out that interview, which on a first reading (and indeed second reading) is astonishing.

However, for the sake of debate (and because I admit to being a bit of a Regan apologist as I'm impressed with other stuff he has done for the grassroots of the game), I think it warrants further analysis:

1) He doesnt say that Rangers need to be in because of an affection for or allegiance to Rangers. I dont think he has any. It isnt a case that we need Rangers to help Rnagers, it is that he belives we need Rangers for the sake of everyone else. (I dont agree with him, but thats opinion).
2) Assuming the above, it doesnt indicate corruption at all.
3) Assuming he believes that the financial implications of no hun would result in the administration/liquidation of several member clubs, he presumably has a duty to work in th einterest of those clubs if he genuinely believes them to be at risk.
4) The "social unrest" related to no hun, not div3 hun. Stupid thing to say either way, bit not scaremongering to ge tthem to div 1
5) I agree with the tribalism element. Of course thats what football is.

I believe he is wrong - I'd stress that. I think allowing the hun back into div 1 will absolutely kill the game because of the strength of feeling, but I can see where he is coming from when you take the understandable distaste for hundom out of the consideration process.

[Brando7]

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I've fired off a few emails to various addresses. Latest one went to SFL clubs, SPL clubs, Both organisations, the Media and a few SPL fan clubs (grouped below).


[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected]




cc:

[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],

[email protected],
[email protected],

[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],


[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected],
[email protected]

Fab post m8, I have emailed a few clubs after each statement they have issued one at a time but now i can do it all in one go...

[degenerated]

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I was mystified that Regan could put out that interview, which on a first reading (and indeed second reading) is astonishing.

However, for the sake of debate (and because I admit to being a bit of a Regan apologist as I'm impressed with other stuff he has done for the grassroots of the game), I think it warrants further analysis:

1) He doesnt say that Rangers need to be in because of an affection for or allegiance to Rangers. I dont think he has any. It isnt a case that we need Rangers to help Rnagers, it is that he belives we need Rangers for the sake of everyone else. (I dont agree with him, but thats opinion).
2) Assuming the above, it doesnt indicate corruption at all.
3) Assuming he believes that the financial implications of no hun would result in the administration/liquidation of several member clubs, he presumably has a duty to work in th einterest of those clubs if he genuinely believes them to be at risk.
4) The "social unrest" related to no hun, not div3 hun. Stupid thing to say either way, bit not scaremongering to ge tthem to div 1
5) I agree with the tribalism element. Of course thats what football is.

I believe he is wrong - I'd stress that. I think allowing the hun back into div 1 will absolutely kill the game because of the strength of feeling, but I can see where he is coming from when you take the understandable distaste for hundom out of the consideration process.

Apologise all you want for him

What I took out of his statement can be put far more succinctly than your summary, and that is that the guy is a complete bellend who should be removed from office before he does anything further to harm not only the game but people's perceptions of the country.

He taking that ****** idiot Doncaster with him as well.

[ScottB]

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We do EVERYTHING we can to be heard.

We don't need to boycott games, but we can however create big banners to let our feelings be known, we can also get the fans from every club to come together and perform major protests against this.

People need to get angry. People don't get angry enough these days and just accept what their spoon fed.

Perhaps I'm being too cynical here. But what we have here are structures where the guys at the top can decide how long they want to do their jobs, what they fancy doing with them, with no method for them to be removed by anybody. We can wave banners and be as angry as we like, they can choose to ignore it and happily cash their paychecks.

I suspect Regan and Doncaster will stay in their no doubt nice offices for a long time to come. Their never flinching support of Rangers will keep the media onside with them and eliminate one big source of pressure.


Football is corrupt to the core, anyone expecting FIFA or UEFA to do anything about it forgets how corrupt both those bodies are as well. They, like our own authorities will be desperate to sweep this under the rug. The key thing once these muppets are gone is that we create a system where by such things cannot happen again. Directly elected by the fans would be something I'd like to see, but any system where by someone can't just take the job then do whatever they like for as long as they fancy would be an improvement.

[Hibercelona]

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Perhaps I'm being too cynical here. But what we have here are structures where the guys at the top can decide how long they want to do their jobs, what they fancy doing with them, with no method for them to be removed by anybody. We can wave banners and be as angry as we like, they can choose to ignore it and happily cash their paychecks.

I suspect Regan and Doncaster will stay in their no doubt nice offices for a long time to come. Their never flinching support of Rangers will keep the media onside with them and eliminate one big source of pressure.


Football is corrupt to the core, anyone expecting FIFA or UEFA to do anything about it forgets how corrupt both those bodies are as well. They, like our own authorities will be desperate to sweep this under the rug. The key thing once these muppets are gone is that we create a system where by such things cannot happen again. Directly elected by the fans would be something I'd like to see, but any system where by someone can't just take the job then do whatever they like for as long as they fancy would be an improvement.

You need a ladder to climb a ladder, take away their ladder and they'll have nothing to stand on.

These guys are "high up", because we're their ladder.

Without us there as their stepping stones, they have nothing to keep them up there.

We are their power and without us, they have none.

[Cocaine&Caviar]

Has it been announced who the "1" out of the 12 were?

[Hibercelona]

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Has it been announced who the "1" out of the 12 were?

Killie

[JeMeSouviens]

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Has it been announced who the "1" out of the 12 were?

Old Huns voted yes, Killie abstained.

[Gatecrasher]

Speaking to a Killie fan at my work today about yesterday and was saying the the board of killie wanted a yes vote but the fans wanted a know which is why they chose to abstain, meaning they didnt want to vote against their own beleifs but didnt want to go against the fans either.

[Twa Cairpets]

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Apologise all you want for him

What I took out of his statement can be put far more succinctly than your summary, and that is that the guy is a complete bellend who should be removed from office before he does anything further to harm not only the game but people's perceptions of the country.

He taking that ****** idiot Doncaster with him as well.

Agree with your analysis of Doncaster.

As for the rest of the post, you've not actually addressed any of the points, but just name called. Hey - you may be right, and he may be a bellend, but what comes after? This whole thing started with the huns under the watch of the old style SFA with its endless committees and being headed up by the like of Gordon Smith. Whether or not you agree with the Regans stance on the huns (and I emphatically dont), scottish football is more than just the SPL and SFL, and Regan has modernised and streamlined the administration of the sport dramtically. Do we really want a return to how it was before? Because the fallout has happened on Regans watch doesnt make him cuplable. He's been (in my opinion) disingenuous in his comments, but if his belief is that more clubs will go bust then he has a duty to say it. Again, I stress that my view is that the long term moral/financial impact of some other teams going bump is preferable to the short term financial benefit.

[jgl07]

I am beginning to think that if this whole thing is not sorted out next week, that Scottish Football should be put out of its misery.

When the SFL vote not to accept Newco into Division one as they surely will, that must be the end of the saga.

If Doncaster, Regan, et al continue and try to create an SPL2 in order to accommodate the ****, that will be the end for me. It will prove that they are prepared to pull the whole house down rather than admit defeat.

How the hell are teams expected to build for next season with all these distractions?

[Keith_M]

11 Team SPL Proposal.


As suggested earlier by another poster, we could just have an 11 team SPL this season. To accomplish this fairly, do away with the split and play each other 4 times, making a total of 40 games.

This would mean that each club would have one extra home game, thereby helping in a small way to make up for any missing cash from home gate v Rankers.

How does that sound?

[Seveno]

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We do EVERYTHING we can to be heard.

We don't need to boycott games, but we can however create big banners to let our feelings be known, we can also get the fans from every club to come together and perform major protests against this.

People need to get angry. People don't get angry enough these days and just accept what their spoon fed.

I totally agree and it has already been shown, by the vote yesterday, that we can demonstrate our power. We won by flooding our Clubs with letter and email so we just need to do it again.

[CropleyWasGod]

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11 Team SPL Proposal.


As suggested earlier by another poster, we could just have an 11 team SPL this season. To accomplish this fairly, do away with the split and play each other 4 times, making a total of 40 games.

This would mean that each club would have one extra home game, thereby helping in a small way to make up for any missing cash from home gate v Rankers.

How does that sound?

BUT THAT WOULD MEAN THERE WOULD BE NO VACANCY IN THE SFL!!!!!

Brilliant idea

[Part/Time Supporter]

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11 Team SPL Proposal.


As suggested earlier by another poster, we could just have an 11 team SPL this season. To accomplish this fairly, do away with the split and play each other 4 times, making a total of 40 games.

This would mean that each club would have one extra home game, thereby helping in a small way to make up for any missing cash from home gate v Rankers.

How does that sound?

It's not a terrible idea, but it would need 44 dates to play the 40 games, with each team being idle for the 4 games not played against the 12th team. That could cause scheduling issues because you would need to find six additional dates in the season.