Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[joe breezy]

alex thomson ‏@alextomo
SFL powerpoint document should be met with utter contempt by all decent football fans - senior source in Hampden Pk tells ‪#c4news‬


@alextomo
Source says this is nothing less than a crude takeover bid by Scottish Premier League for Football League...

@alextomo
Senior Hampden source tells #c4news cannot see how RFC were allowed to play last season at all. Doesn't believe they met finance criteria...

[EuanH78]

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Annan Athletic, Elgin City and Stirling Albion have all replied to my e-mail I sent to all 30 SFL clubs. The Annan chairman gave the most cohesive response:



Hopefully we can all keep the pressure up on the fight for integrity, it is better than rolling over and accepting defeat.

Can you PM your mailing list? I think I would like to offer my support to the SFL clubs as well.

[--------]

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Were those teams allowed to parachute debt free into Div 1?

I don't think so.

[gramskiwood]

alex thomson
‏@alextomo

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SFL powerpoint document should be met with utter contempt by all decent football fans – senior source in Hampden Pk tells ‪#c4news‬

[jgl07]

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Popular wisdom has it that there are far too many clubs in Scotland...

One of the most meaningless statements ever. Like most popular wisdom it is total rubbish.

How do you define "Too many clubs"?

Has England got too many teams? They have four senior Divisions below the EPL all operate on a national basis. Then there are several layers of regionally based leagues. There are never any suggestions that there are too many clubs.

What will be gained by 'eliminating' certain clubs?

I will answer that one by saying 'absolutely nothing'.

We had suggestions to to merge all four Fife clubs into one. That would go down really well. There were similar suggestions for Dundee, Ayrshire, Renfrewshire, Lanarkshire, etc. Hibs were nearly the victim of such a 'merger' in Edinburgh.

The only thing wrong with the lower orders in the SPL is the lack of pyramid structure to allow persistent poor performers such as East Stirlingshire to hang around and keep back ambitious teams. Inverness Caledonian were denied entry to the SFL for years because the teams did not want to travel to the Highlands. Gala have similarly been kept out.

Get a decent two division national system with a regionalized pyramid below and most of the problems will solved.

[Jim44]

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So am i right in saying the Newco Huns haven't even applied to join any league yet and pressumably they need to by 5 or they're completely oot?

This was reported on the BBC News but let's not forget that this is a rule which, as in the case of Jambo eligibility, will be selectivly applied. They probably give them a week's grace to concoct something 'acceptable'.

[007 Mickey Weir]

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If Scottish football has been depending on an institutionally corrupt club like Rangers for survival then it deserves to perish.

The authorities recognised three years ago that the game had problems, spent time and money on the McLeish report and then proceeded to do absolutely sod all until Rangers got found out. Then they still did sod all until it was nearly too late and now they're running around like blue-arsed chickens finding new ways to do and say exactly the wrong things.

The fundamental changes the game needs is now being forced upon them and if that destroys some clubs so be it - harsh on the individual clubs, but the hardest-learned lessons are the best-remembered.

Scottish football needs to be re-invented - rip it up and start again.

Totally agree!!!

[green glory]

Alex Thomson's info is explosive. SPL dissolution round the corner hopefully.

[JeMeSouviens]

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alex thomson
‏@alextomo

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SFL powerpoint document should be met with utter contempt by all decent football fans – senior source in Hampden Pk tells ‪#c4news‬

No worries on that score!

[Kaiser1962]

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TBH, I'm surprised that no one's proposed doing that on Rangers behalf this time around - buy out some struggling SFL (or SPL!) team, and just move the whole concern back to Ibrox.

The simple answer is that loophole was closed Doddie. The Huns made indiscreet enquiries about the possibility of buying St. Mirren before Xmas before they figured out that particular cunning plan, similar to every other one since, was against the current rules.

[Hibbyradge]

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One of the most meaningless statements ever. Like most popular wisdom it is total rubbish.

How do you define "Too many clubs"?

Has England got too many teams? They have four senior Divisions below the EPL all operate on a national basis. Then there are several layers of regionally based leagues. There are never any suggestions that there are too many clubs.

What will be gained by 'eliminating' certain clubs?

I will answer that one by saying 'absolutely nothing'.

We had suggestions to to merge all four Fife clubs into one. That would go down really well. There were similar suggestions for Dundee, Ayrshire, Renfrewshire, Lanarkshire, etc. Hibs were nearly the victim of such a 'merger' in Edinburgh.

The only thing wrong with the lower orders in the SPL is the lack of pyramid structure to allow persistent poor performers such as East Stirlingshire to hang around and keep back ambitious teams. Inverness Caledonian were denied entry to the SFL for years because the teams did not want to travel to the Highlands. Gala have similarly been kept out.

Get a decent two division national system with a regionalized pyramid below and most of the problems will solved.

Calm down dear. It's only a debating point.

[lapsedhibee]

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alex thomson
‏@alextomo
SFL powerpoint document should be met with utter contempt by all decent football fans – senior source in Hampden Pk tells ‪#c4news‬

I am now very worried. I have a store of fine red and succulent lamb waiting for the day when HunFC/TheHunFC are finally no more, but have just realised that I have absolutely no idea what the appropriate steps are for dancing on a grave, and there may not now be time to learn them. What can I do in the short time available?

[JeMeSouviens]

Aberdeen, Dunfermline, Raith and Morton statements all excellent.

Take note, Hibs!

[WindyMiller]

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Don't think so.

The closest parallel I can think of is the case of Airdrieonians, who went completely out of existence.

Jim Ballantyne and a group of supporters applied for entry to SFL3 but were refused - Gretna got the place.

Ballantyne and Co then bought out the terminally-sick Clydebank FC, moved that club to Airdrie, re-named it Airdrie United, adopted the old Airdrie 'Diamonds' red-and-white strip, and set up to play in SFL2.

TBH, I'm surprised that no one's proposed doing that on Rangers behalf this time around - buy out some struggling SFL (or SPL!) team, and just move the whole concern back to Ibrox.

Mind you, if they tried THAT and got away with it, the ordure wouldn't half collide with the air-conditioning and no mistake ...

Cowdenbeath Rangers?

[greenginger]

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Cowdenbeath Rangers?

Or the Blue-Nosed Brazil ?

[jdships]

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One of the most meaningless statements ever. Like most popular wisdom it is total rubbish.

How do you define "Too many clubs"?

Has England got too many teams? They have four senior Divisions below the EPL all operate on a national basis. Then there are several layers of regionally based leagues. There are never any suggestions that there are too many clubs.

What will be gained by 'eliminating' certain clubs?

I will answer that one by saying 'absolutely nothing'.

We had suggestions to to merge all four Fife clubs into one. That would go down really well. There were similar suggestions for Dundee, Ayrshire, Renfrewshire, Lanarkshire, etc. Hibs were nearly the victim of such a 'merger' in Edinburgh.

The only thing wrong with the lower orders in the SPL is the lack of pyramid structure to allow persistent poor performers such as East Stirlingshire to hang around and keep back ambitious teams. Inverness Caledonian were denied entry to the SFL for years because the teams did not want to travel to the Highlands. Gala have similarly been kept out.

Get a decent two division national system with a regionalized pyramid below and most of the problems will solved.

You make it sound so simplistic !
The OP I think was looking at the overall picture
This is about economics not sentiment and many of Div 3 clubs depend on the Directors putting their hands in their pockets on a regular basis to help the club simply survive.
I have friends involved with the running of three Div2/3 clubs and it is simply hand to mouth .
OK reorganisation is an option but is surely a short term fix
There are so many alternative hobbies/pastimes available that people are not drawn to football as they were in the 1960's
I played , early 50's , for a club now in Div 3 and we could look for 4/5000 for home games now it is 4/450

Sorry but can't see the problem be solved with the number of clubs we have at present .

[Sunny1875]

Try turning the question around, with feelings running so high amongst the fans of ALL SPL. If the correct and proper decision is not taken.

Will the HUNCOME be enough to sustain the clubs when their own fans are not turning up. If attendances drop by say even 10% will the Huncome make up for this shortfall. Considering teams currently hope to entertain Rangers twice a season even if the whole ground was given over to them this would not make up for the 10% shortfall.

[gramskiwood]

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...ce-saloon/2091

[whiskyhibby]

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Cowdenbeath Rangers?

A match made in heaven :-£)


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?cqe11p

[WindyMiller]

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Or the Blue-Nosed Brazil ?

I did note that Donald Findlay was named as one of those supporting the Bombed Brown bid.

[joe breezy]

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...ce-saloon/2091


Let us start with something we can all agree on. The latest plan for Ibrox as a football venue shows just how late the hour really is in Scottish football’s last chance saloon. There is near-panic in the area. Immediate, urgent desperation measures and to hell with the rule-books.

Take Scottish Football League chief executive David Longmuir, not because he’s any worse or better or more or less compromised by crisis than any other of the blazers, but because his u-turning sums up the panic.


17 June: “There would be no provision for any newco (new company) Rangers to go into the First Division rather than the Third Division.”

28 June: “The SFL is trying to address the question of whether we can accommodate a solution to the Rangers FC scenario.”

Light regulation

Let us remember where all this began. Not with football but with big capitalism out of control. Remember David Cameron on the banks when he said what was needed for our banking system was:

“…light regulation and low regulation…”

And look what happened from RBS and The Shred to this week’s Bollingergate fiasco at Barclays and probably now quite a few other banks. Because were given too free a rein, were too under-regulated, too under-governed and too under-supervised, they decided to ignore the rules.

What a surprise.

So too in big sport. It just happens to be a club called Rangers – or at least it was – the final new name appears as yet uncertain. Just like the banks they thought they could ignore the rules. Just like the banks they sowed legacy-mines and time-bombs all over the park and now, one by one, they detonate.

High noon

So the once mighty Rangers over the next week perhaps, face high noon at Hampden with no certainty where the club will play although it will not be in the Scottish Premier League.

And the response from authorities charged with imposing regulation on a sport where regulation appears to have been flouted?

Incinerate the rule-book.

The Scottish Football League (SFL), Scottish Football Association and Scottish Premier League perceive Rangers as a cash cow and given their mighty support they’re right. They now consider their only option to force Rangers back into the highest point possible in their system – Division 1 – now the SPL clubs have surprised them by calling their bluff and voting no to having them back in the top flight and expelling them from the SPL as they are now pledged to do next week (seven clubs having already said no).

Let’s look at the document sent to the SFL clubs designed to force them to vote Rangers into Division 1. This is about three things when you pare it down:

1. money (business)

2. sporting integrity (morality)

3. fans (customers)

There are 16 references in the SFL document to money and business. There are four references to sporting integrity and morality in any sense. There are just two references to fans. I think ‘redemption’ gets a message. ‘Punishment’ – unless I’ve missed it – does not.

Resistance to change

Of course the authorities should consider business – but it should consider profoundly the fact that ignoring everything in the pursuit of ‘business’ is precisely what destroyed Rangers FC and created the current crisis.

This should tell us something about where the SFL is coming from and the really critical phrase is contained in the section where they are selling the Division 1 option to the SFL clubs. They call this:

“…a least-worse case financial scenario…”

Which is what the ‘deal’ or ‘threat’ is all about. Coupled with the added enticer that many Division 1 clubs in Scotland have long wanted the two-tier SPL now being punted to accommodate the Rangers newco.

But hang on a minute. Go back to the top of the document and there’s a shrill plea for change, boldness, a chance to escape the fear of change which, it is implied, has done so much to damage Scottish football. “Why does resistance to change in football exist?” it says. Then it concludes:

1. “Fear of the unknown”- yet what follows is all about fear of the unknown. The document then proceeds to play on fears of the unknown if Rangers is not placed as high as possible in the leagues ie in Division 1. It is dripping with financial fears.

2. “Lack of involvement” – yet there’s been zero meaningful involvement of the clubs, beyond being summoned to high noon at Hampden and absolutely no meaningful involvement of the customers – the fans – who let’s face it played such a large part in calling the bluff on the plan to shoehorn Rangers straight back into the SPL by pressuring chairmen into actually considering things like morality and integrity

3. “Lack of information” – yet what kind of information have fans of clubs had on all this? Where are the scary figures plucked from to justify placing Rangers in Division 1? Where are the models? Where are the costings? Details? They get one paltry line-graph and some scary sloganeering.

4. “Threat to power, or status” – yet if that is considered an obstacle to change – why produce a manifesto to enshrine the power and status of a wholly toxic football brand to the highest degree possible within the league structure?

5. “No perceived benefits” – yet the Division 3 option for Rangers is perceived in wholly negative terms. Most fans see real benefits of this, not least Rangers fans themselves, whilst accepting inevitable financial pain for all. So how come football authorities either don’t perceive these benefits or have ignored them?

6 “Unless behaviour changes, nothing changes” – somewhat ironic given this is a manifesto to manage utter catastrophe by means of the most minimal change possible. Inaction, negligence and continuing cronyism are part of what has brought Scottish football to its knees. The behaviour proposed here is to do as little as possible to rock a boat that was plainly sinking.

Bizarre document

So there it is. A bizarre document the tone of which is near-panic, which sets out to destroy all the supposed ambition set out at its top. Extraordinary prose for extraordinary times.

The fans – the customers – of course lie forgotten. Everyone says most fans want Rangers in Division 3 and most Rangers fans (for various reasons) seem to want that too. They are not listened to. They are not heard.

Like a desperate child the football authorities survey the car-crash they’ve presided over and wring their hands. Shocked by the SPL clubs calling their bluff they try desperately to get the nearest thing possible to the SPL with their SPL- lite.

The fans aren’t daft and they’ll not buy this, nor should the clubs – even those who’ve long hankered for the two-tier SPL.

It should all be about real change, real opportunities for clubs who are not toxic and for Rangers to have the chance – genuinely, credibly, cleanly – to put this behind them, do their time and come good as they surely will, with any deserved bragging rights earned the hard way in coming years.

Don’t take my word – pop up the A9 to the new hotbed of European football in Scotland – Perth.

[ballengeich]

Le Havre have now cancelled Rangers' pre-season friendly in France. It had been specially arranged to mark both clubs reaching 140 years

[lyonhibs]

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If any club fails to adapt accordingly to the loss of the Rangers income, hell mend them

This

Survival of the fittest, and if these clubs can't take the necessary steps to survive without 2 visits from the Huns every year, then they deserve everything they get.

[--------]

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Popular wisdom has it that there are far too many clubs in Scotland...

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One of the most meaningless statements ever. Like most popular wisdom it is total rubbish.

How do you define "Too many clubs"?

Has England got too many teams? They have four senior Divisions below the EPL all operate on a national basis. Then there are several layers of regionally based leagues. There are never any suggestions that there are too many clubs.

What will be gained by 'eliminating' certain clubs?

I will answer that one by saying 'absolutely nothing'.

We had suggestions to to merge all four Fife clubs into one. That would go down really well. There were similar suggestions for Dundee, Ayrshire, Renfrewshire, Lanarkshire, etc. Hibs were nearly the victim of such a 'merger' in Edinburgh.

The only thing wrong with the lower orders in the SPL is the lack of pyramid structure to allow persistent poor performers such as East Stirlingshire to hang around and keep back ambitious teams. Inverness Caledonian were denied entry to the SFL for years because the teams did not want to travel to the Highlands. Gala have similarly been kept out.

Get a decent two division national system with a regionalized pyramid below and most of the problems will solved.

Within an hour or so's drive of my house there are these clubs: Airdrie United, Albion Rovers, Hamilton Accies, Motherwell, Clyde, Falkirk, Livingston, and Hearts. I think I could get to Celtic Park within the hour, too. I'm not sure about the wee teams in the Falkirk area, but there are three, and it wouldn't take much more than the hour to get to Stenhousemuir, Alloa, or East Stirling.

That's 30% of the SPL/SFL clubs all within easy driving distance.

That doesn't take in the local Junior clubs, some of whom compare very well to the clubs from the lower divisions of the SFL.

How many of these clubs can be considered as seriously viable 'senior' football clubs?

So Mr Radge has a point.

But so have you - local rivalries dictate that any attempt to merge neighbouring football clubs to strengthen them is doomed to failure and will only alienate the supporters of the 'wee' clubs considered undeserving of survival.

I think your suggestion of a two-tier SPL with regional leagues feeding up into it might very well be the answer. However, the income from TV and sponsorship deriving from TV coverage (not the clubs' own sponsorship deals but sponsorship deals relating to the League as a whole) would have to be spread around a lot more fairly than in the past.

The League and FA should not exist to finance Celtic and Rangers in their pathetic attempts on European glory. They should exist to foster and prosper the sport in Scotland as a whole.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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I know, been searching for a 500 page thread for when it happened to gretna and dundee and livvy but im struggling to find one somehow.....................

Are you for real? The rules that were in place at the time were enforced against each of these clubs, but, are not enforced against Whatever they are called because they are worth too much, its the lack of consistency that bothers most people.

[joe breezy]

"Rangers Football Club have been informed by Le Havre that they no longer wish to play us as part of their 140th anniversary celebrations on Thursday July 12. Unfortunately the match will now not take place."

[GreenCastle]

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If the Newco doesn't find a home, how many other SPL clubs would we see going down the tubes through the permanent loss of Huncome?

I reckon

1. Killie
2. St Mirren
3. Motherwell - haven't they been bust already?

Stewart Milne is talking tough but the Dons must be pretty close to administration too, despite their recent cost-cutting?

It's heading for meltdown if they get into Div 1 - if they don't find a home other teams will survive. Just media scare tactics and a myth.

Teams get hardly any of the prize money / tv money anyway and we need a more competitive league so if more fair will hopefully bring more fans in!

[Viva_Palmeiras]

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"Rangers Football Club have been informed by Le Havre that they no longer wish to play us as part of their 140th anniversary celebrations on Thursday July 12. Unfortunately the match will now not take place."

The (in)glorious 12th. Tarantino is interested in the film rights ;)

[Emerald]

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The (in)glorious 12th. Tarantino is interested in the film rights ;)

Did anyone listen to Gordon Smith on SSN. He makes my blood boil. Id love to see his face when axe finaly comes down on the huns.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Rangers withdraw from pre-season friendly in France on July 12th. They're realised it clashes with their annual celebrations in Larkhall