Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Offside Trap]

Just tweeted the following to Tom English:

@TomEnglishSport Tom are we sure Ibrox&MP incl in sale to CG? Look at CVA Page 37 Sch 4 NewCo column. Freehold property not included. Odd?!

[green glory]

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okay.. something like this.

"Thus far, there seems to be a general assumption in the mainstream media that Charles Green has purchased all of the assets of Rangers for £5.5m. Those assets, it is assumed, include all of the properties. However, no-one has actually questioned this assumption.
In the CVA proposal (page 37), there is a Expected Outcome Statement, which shows the outcomes of the three main scenarios, ie CVA, transfer to NewCo, and liquidation. Under the NewCo heading, the payment of £5.5m is split between £200k for the exclusivity fee, and £5.3m for Goodwill, Players' Contracts and Intellectual Property Rights. There is no value shown for Property. Does this mean that (a) the property is valued at £nil or (b) the property was not transferred to the NewCo. This is crucial in terms of the position of the creditors of RFC, and of course the proposed liquidation, but, as I say, nobody has aked the question.
The CVA document is confusing and possibly misleading. Was this the intention of the administrators?"

Too much for a tweet, I have however sent it to his and Phil Mac's blogs, and I've tweeted the both to check my comments. Here's hoping.

[Caversham Green]

[QUOTE=Paisley Hibby;3264035]

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Well I can't see the EOS part being a mistake. So as you have been suggesting, D&P need to be asked to explain in public why they have written an EOS that does not include the property. Unless they say it's a mistake (and how crap will they look if they do) then their answer will be interesting.

I've now emailed Paul McConville at the address linked by Spike - I'll report back if he comes up with anything interesting.

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=Caversham Green;3264060]

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I've now emailed Paul McConville at the address linked by Spike - I'll report back if he comes up with anything interesting.

I have also made my debut on his blog.

[SMAXXA]

Just out of interest, is this the biggest thread in Hibs.net history?

[Kato]

Is Walter's Myth a fit and proper person to be owning a Scottish Football club?

[joe breezy]

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Is Walter's Myth a fit and proper person to be owning a Scottish Football club?

Indeed

[WindyMiller]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;3264066]

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I have also made my debut on his blog.

He put this up earlier

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...fit/#more-1280

[Paisley Hibby]

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Forgive me if this has already been mentioned. The sheep seem to believe that there might not even be a vote. I really hope this aint being thought of as a way out for those on the voting fence. http://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/Article.aspx/2811915

Oh FFS! I had a feeling the other SPL clubs would try to find a way out of making the decision. Why on earth would they need to pay advisers to tell them what to do here? The glaringly obvious answer is so that Newhun can take Oldhun's place in the SPL and the clubs can blame someone else for it. If this is right then they are even bigger hypocritical cowards than I thought.

[Paisley Hibby]

[QUOTE=WindyMiller;3264124]

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He put this up earlier

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...fit/#more-1280

That seems pretty clear cut? Green seems to have got himself the property as well as the whole rancid club for a bargain basement price.

[MB62]

[QUOTE=WindyMiller;3264124]

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He put this up earlier

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...fit/#more-1280

So he DOES now own Ibrox and Murray Park. Something stinks very badly about all of this.

[1two]

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Just out of interest, is this the biggest thread in Hibs.net history?

I think so, it certainly dwarfs the calendar thread.

Has anyone else ever been overshadowed by a load of hun *****?

[Seveno]

What does Scottish football have in common with Denmark and Sweden ?

Well, they are small countries so that's a tick. Scotland has larger crowds at their games (with or without the Old Firm) so not really a tick there.

What they decidedly do not have in common though is that neither of those countries have any clubs as 'massive' as Celtic or Rangers.

Oh, and they are In the Euros.

[johnrebus]

[QUOTE=MB62;3264138]

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So he DOES now own Ibrox and Murray Park. Something stinks very badly about all of this.

Yes, it does, but who cares if Green trousers a few millions if it has the Hun in such a frenzy?

[ScottB]

Allow me to go all paranoid / conspiratorial for a moment...

David Murray realises he's up the brown creek with no form of propulsion, his best buddies at the bank are gone, and if rumours are to be believed, the law is taking an interest. Rangers are even further up said creek once the taxman has done his work. His ego couldn't stand be seen as 'the man who killed Rangers' so a patsy is found to take the fall; in rides Craig Whyte. Whyte milks the club for all its worth and sets it firmly on course for liquidation, making sure an already irked Hector will be positively itching to nail them to the wall.

The inevitable happens and the club ends up in administration, in the capable hands of Whyte's good friends Duff & Phelps. Despite the absence of any logic D&P keep the club fully intact with almost no layoffs. They continually name check every bidder they can, save one, dragging out the process to the nth degree. Then suddenly Mr Greene emerges, apparently in the running since February, but never, ever mentioned by the otherwise very chatty Administrators.

As Greene's bid progresses, we begin seeing stories emerging in the press, who are his backers? Does he have the cash? A press normally happy to accept all things Rangers as gospel. Then, on liquidation day we get the clearly nonsensical story that Greene wants Super Ally out. The Blue hoards are baying for blood and then, riding to the last minute rescue comes Walter Smith and his cadre of super rich good Scottish Rangers men who were all surprisingly absent when the club was in desperate need of a serious bidder.


Now, am I the only one that at the least sees some conspiracies in that? If not one overarching one. Should Greene and his unknown investors disappear easily for a few million extra in the coming days then I think it is. Has this been a plan from day one to get a healthy, debt free Rangers back in business in the hands of men that 'Sir' Murray would approve of?

Suspicious much says I...

[calmac12000]

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Semt mine too.

[Andy74]

[QUOTE=johnrebus;3264146]

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Yes, it does, but who cares if Green trousers a few millions if it has the Hun in such a frenzy?

As it's money that should rightfully be paid to HMRC in the main, like what happens to a large chunk of my wages every month?

[Peevemor]

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Allow me to go all paranoid / conspiratorial for a moment...

That's not so daft. I thought of David Murray as soon as Wattie stuck his head over the parapet.

[johnrebus]

[QUOTE=Andy74;3264159]

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As it's money that should rightfully be paid to HMRC in the main, like what happens to a large chunk of my wages every month?

A fair point, but why are HMRC not challenging the sale?

They - presumably - have the power?

[Paisley Hibby]

[QUOTE=Paisley Hibby;3264132]

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That seems pretty clear cut? Green seems to have got himself the property as well as the whole rancid club for a bargain basement price.

Should have added that CAV is right, the table comparing the financial outcome for creditors from each of the 3 scenarios (CVA, Newco and straight liquidation) is very misleading.

D&P seem to say that just the club itself (ie the goodwill, Intellectual Property rights, players contract and stock) is worth £5.5m. I say "worth" but it's not based on a valuation, it's simply the figure they have allocated against those items in the outcomes table. They also say that under pure liquidation, the real estate on its own is worth £4.59m. So a fair reading of D&Ps figures would be that under the Newco proposal, Green would get £10.09m worth of assets for £5.5m. How can D&P possibly justify legally committing creditors to such a deal in the event of CVA rejection?

[VickMackie]

If the old co are going to exist to get in the fixture plan how can they be considered if theyv sold their stadium?

[Andy74]

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If the old co are going to exist to get in the fixture plan how can they be considered if theyv sold their stadium?

Agree, if they don't have any players or a stadium how can they continue to be considered as a football club?

At the moment there seems to be two companies - neither of which is set up to play football at this stage.

Dundee should be getting the invite as we speak.

[ScottB]

[QUOTE=johnrebus;3264163]

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A fair point, but why are HMRC not challenging the sale?

They - presumably - have the power?

More to the point, now a new group has appeared, apparently willing to pay more, can't the creditors reverse the sale to Greene and punt it to Wattie n co?

[ScottB]

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That's not so daft. I thought of David Murray as soon as Wattie stuck his head over the parapet.

Definitely, there's no way he has a vast pot of cash, and somebody must have 'brought' this group of 'Rangers men' together.

Impossible that Murray isn't involved in some capacity.

[JimBHibees]

Is it right that all the EBT's, Dual contracts, big tax case are now all dead in the water as they are linked to the old company? If so this IMO is nothing more than a massive whitewash. Ignore all the cheating something like on year out of the SPL then business as usual.

[Caversham Green]

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So he DOES now own Ibrox and Murray Park. Something stinks very badly about all of this.

It's not set in stone yet, the blog is only Paul McConville's thoughts about things and he has got a couple of things wrong there. I'm still firmly on the fence about the property sales, but the amounts due to the oldco and the player transfer fees have not been purchased by Green according to the CVA proposal.

Having said that, you're absolutely right about the smell. The speed with which D&P managed to get the sale through is breathtaking, particularly when player's contracts were involved and each individual employee would have to be consulted. If the properties were also included you have to add the conveyancing etc to that. I hope BDO will look very closely at D&P's involvement and take any appropriate legal action against them. Meanwhile, expecting us to believe that Walter Smith has only just decided to put in a claim now is an insult to our collective intelligence.

[jgl07]

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Is it right that all the EBT's, Dual contracts, big tax case are now all dead in the water as they are linked to the old company? If so this IMO is nothing more than a massive whitewash. Ignore all the cheating something like on year out of the SPL then business as usual.

They are not dead.

The BTC and the dual contracts issue are linked anyway.

If it was a real Newco with no attempt to bring the players and intellectual property then maybe that was the case.

But The Rangers Football Club will be attempting to get in the SPL on the basis of the purchase of the assets from the Oldco. If they were a completely new club they would have to seek membership of the SFA from scratch.

All the penalties can now be transferred to the Newco. If the SPL don't reject them the SFA appeal will catch them. Then there is still the dual contract enquiry to knock them over. If all else fails, FIFA will come in over the Court of Session action.

[blackpoolhibs]

Whats to stop that guy who won the euro millions, starting a new football team, and applying to join the SPL, he has more money than Rangers?

[poolman]

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It's not set in stone yet, the blog is only Paul McConville's thoughts about things and he has got a couple of things wrong there. I'm still firmly on the fence about the property sales, but the amounts due to the oldco and the player transfer fees have not been purchased by Green according to the CVA proposal.

Having said that, you're absolutely right about the smell. The speed with which D&P managed to get the sale through is breathtaking, particularly when player's contracts were involved and each individual employee would have to be consulted. If the properties were also included you have to add the conveyancing etc to that. I hope BDO will look very closely at D&P's involvement and take any appropriate legal action against them. Meanwhile, expecting us to believe that Walter Smith has only just decided to put in a claim now is an insult to our collective intelligence.

Thats a bit harsh CG

One call changed everything. He phoned his best mate at the beginning of the week and when the conversation turned to Rangers the bloke on the other end of the phone broke down.

Smith told me: “I was holding the phone listening to a mate crying because he feared for his club and I knew then I couldn’t stand idle.” He made another call and said simply: “I’m in"

He's such a sucker for a sob story dontya know

[ac1]

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Allow me to go all paranoid / conspiratorial for a moment...

David Murray realises he's up the brown creek with no form of propulsion, his best buddies at the bank are gone, and if rumours are to be believed, the law is taking an interest. Rangers are even further up said creek once the taxman has done his work. His ego couldn't stand be seen as 'the man who killed Rangers' so a patsy is found to take the fall; in rides Craig Whyte. Whyte milks the club for all its worth and sets it firmly on course for liquidation, making sure an already irked Hector will be positively itching to nail them to the wall.

The inevitable happens and the club ends up in administration, in the capable hands of Whyte's good friends Duff & Phelps. Despite the absence of any logic D&P keep the club fully intact with almost no layoffs. They continually name check every bidder they can, save one, dragging out the process to the nth degree. Then suddenly Mr Greene emerges, apparently in the running since February, but never, ever mentioned by the otherwise very chatty Administrators.

As Greene's bid progresses, we begin seeing stories emerging in the press, who are his backers? Does he have the cash? A press normally happy to accept all things Rangers as gospel. Then, on liquidation day we get the clearly nonsensical story that Greene wants Super Ally out. The Blue hoards are baying for blood and then, riding to the last minute rescue comes Walter Smith and his cadre of super rich good Scottish Rangers men who were all surprisingly absent when the club was in desperate need of a serious bidder.


Now, am I the only one that at the least sees some conspiracies in that? If not one overarching one. Should Greene and his unknown investors disappear easily for a few million extra in the coming days then I think it is. Has this been a plan from day one to get a healthy, debt free Rangers back in business in the hands of men that 'Sir' Murray would approve of?

Suspicious much says I...

Something definitely strange about it all - surely some people will be serving a sentence at Barlinie in the next few years i.e former Rangers directors/chairmans. You also imagine HMRC will be looking to chat to some former players as well.