Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Spike Mandela]

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They can't do that, though. If they try to sell off assets cheaply, any creditor can petition the Court to stop the sale.

If the CVA fails the stated aim is to sell the assets to Green for £5.5m. It's in the CVA document is it not?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Please explain.

That doesn't appear to tie in with the figures I have seen and the large number of indeterminate figres.

£135m debt, with the BTC. £8.3m for creditors. That's about 6.3p/£

£60m debt without the BTC is about 13.8/£

Okay, I know the admin fees have to be taken off. But, the point I was making is that, if the BTC goes with RFC , the payout will double.

Your point about it being indeterminate, though, is very important.

[CropleyWasGod]

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If the CVA fails the stated aim is to sell the assets to Green for £5.5m. It's in the CVA document is it not?

That might be their plan, but it doesn;t have to work that way. Again, if a creditor thinks that's too low, then they can have it stopped.

[blackpoolhibs]

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Did you see the lady almost laugh when she said offer could end up a negative p in the £ if tax case and 47 other unknown costs pile in....got the impression she thought CVA offer was a big steaming pile but could not out rightly say so

I did, but was not sure which way to take it?

I was not sure if like you say, she thought it was a pile of poo, or she thought they might just have pulled it off and got away with murder?

[snooky]

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On Newsnight the sports lawyer says that it is in FIFA and UEFAs rulebook that any club that takes its member association to a civil court MUST be punished. So according the rules the SFA need to punish Rangers for taking this to the civil court, plus reconsider the punishment for the original offence. I think Rangers could have really scored an own goal here.

Ban them from the Scottish Cup next season!
(To run concurrently with the same SPL ban).

That'll show them who's Boss!

[BarneyK]

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£135m debt, with the BTC. £8.3m for creditors. That's about 6.3p/£

£60m debt without the BTC is about 13.8/£

Okay, I know the admin fees have to be taken off. But, the point I was making is that, if the BTC goes with RFC , the payout will double.

Your point about it being indeterminate, though, is very important.

Aye, dinnae forget the Admin fees...a trifling amount

[Lungo--Drom]

Quantum

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could Brian Kennedy step in and make a higher offer for the assets and start a bidding war?

[Lungo--Drom]

Quantum

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Isn't it Newco time after the failed CVA? And what assets? The players are free to go at that point, and the brick and mortar appears to exist in a dual universe where it is worth simultaneously hunners of millions and **** all. (Something to do with Quantum Mechanics, I think)

[Just Alf]

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If the CVA fails the stated aim is to sell the assets to Green for £5.5m. It's in the CVA document is it not?

It is, bottom line though is that Duff and Duffer are legally bound to maximise any return on what's left.... That "might" be as a going concern but it could also be as a fire sale.... Players, training ground ( remembering the planning restriction has eased) and of course ibrox itself. If they go for the sell it all to one guy option then they have to be able to demonstrate that's the best option, of they can't then the legal ramifications could put THEM out of business ..... And I can promise they'll be watched very closely through all this!

[Just Alf]

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Kicking them out of the Scottish Cup is the only sanction left. Big deal. Suspension or expulsion won't even be a consideration for Donkeyhead and the other Hun sympathisers.

And apologies for a follow up post, but having another look at earlier pages..... Got to agree with Jim here, I'm really worried about all this :-(

[stoobs]

If FIFA's rules state that the Scottish courts hold no sway with how the SFA can punish their clubs, then I don't see how the SFA could then change from their original decision, to make the transfer ban into a suspension or some such.

If the SFA do change their original decision, then regardless of what they change it to, they will still be seen to have changed in the face of what the Scottish Court decided. This would result in the SFA, and by extension FIFA, being dictated to by a court, rather than an official FIFA sanctioned panel. Even if they change the decision to a harsher punishment, they will still seem weaker.

They might be allowed to punish Rangers a second time for taking legal action in the courts though, so they could now end up with a transfer embargo plus whatever punishment is in the rules for taking legal action against the SFA.

Any idea what these could be? I don't know if it counts as bringing the game into disrepute, or if there are a different set of options in a FIFA rule book somewhere, most likely being a fine I imagine.

PS I imagine that the SFA will be looking to clarify their rule book in time for next season!

[Part/Time Supporter]

Interesting point is that apparently D&P have not been paying taxes since RFC went into administration. HMRC are now due £21.37M (per page 49 of their CVA proposal). The figure due to HMRC when they went into administration was about £14M. It's possible that the £21M figure includes the wee tax case, which D&P have now quantified as being just over £3M (para 5.24), which wasn't quantified in their previous report. That still leaves a difference of about £4M due to HMRC which should be secured, because it relates to the period Rangers have been in administration.

For some reason or other, D&P have not indicated this in their estimated outcome for creditors. If the additional £4M to HMRC is removed, that leaves about £1M in the pot for all creditors (including the pre-administration HMRC amount). This would leave them with (at best) 2p in the £, or less than 1p if the big tax case goes against Rangers.

[IWasThere2016]

I trust this thread is a .net record?!? Credit must go to Fudd and Flaps for this

[grunt]

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Interesting point is that apparently D&P have not been paying taxes since RFC went into administration.

Good point, well spotted. It would be helpful if we had a decent press in this country which could do this sort of analysis and could ask intelligent questions of D&P.

[lapsedhibee]

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It would be helpful if we had a decent press in this country which could do this sort of analysis and could ask intelligent questions of D&P.

What, you don't think that Archie MacPherson, some hun apologist accountant, and some hun sitting on an STV sofa for fifteen minutes blethering pish constitutes investigative journalism at its finest?

[steakbake]

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I trust this thread is a .net record?!? Credit must go to Fudd and Flaps for this

Wasn't the calendar signing thread longer?

This a lot of wind and pish in this thread but so far, some jack booted admin hasn't put it in the vault...yet. Enjoy it while you can!

[HibeesLA]

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Wasn't the calendar signing thread longer?

This a lot of wind and pish in this thread but so far, some jack booted admin hasn't put it in the vault...yet. Enjoy it while you can!

re: calender signing

Replies: 6,619
Views: 116,976


The end of that thread had a lot of wind and pish also.

[Lucius Apuleius]

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re: calender signing

Replies: 6,619
Views: 116,976


The end of that thread had a lot of wind and pish also.

Hmm, so around 50% more wind and pish. Anyone else like to have 50% more wind and pish.

[Seveno]

If the CVA works, in some form or other, that might be the best solution. It still leaves a very weakened Rangers in financial terms with operating costs that they are unable to sustain. Especially if it takes a few months to conclude and they are still in Administration at the start of the new season, so having more points docked.

More importantly, it avoids them walking from the sins of the past, the results of which could be :

1) The SFA tribunal deciding to impose one of the options that they are allowed in respect of bringing the game into disrepute e.g. suspension for say a year.

2) The SFA being forced by FIFA to punish them for taking them to the Court of Session e.g an additional suspension or termination.

Meanwhile, we still have the 'nuclear story' to develop which seems to be about the allegation of bungs being paid to a former employee via the EBT.

Termination of the club's licence, liquidation of the business ......welcome to Tescoville sur Clyde.

[Jim44]

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Aye, dinnae forget the Admin fees...a trifling amount

The administrators' fee is far more than the creditors will receive collectively, according to the news last night.

[down-the-slope]

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The 8.5p being bandied about is on the assumption that the BTC goes against them. If it doesn't, that amount will probably double.

Woop de doop.

Not what was being said by the experts calculations on Newsnight...they reckoned 2p in £ if BTC is lost and even that the 47 outstanding cost items in the 'offer' could even lead to no pot at all and in effect a negative p in the £

[matty_f]

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If the CVA works, in some form or other, that might be the best solution. It still leaves a very weakened Rangers in financial terms with operating costs that they are unable to sustain. Especially if it takes a few months to conclude and they are still in Administration at the start of the new season, so having more points docked.

More importantly, it avoids them walking from the sins of the past, the results of which could be :

1) The SFA tribunal deciding to impose one of the options that they are allowed in respect of bringing the game into disrepute e.g. suspension for say a year.

2) The SFA being forced by FIFA to punish them for taking them to the Court of Session e.g an additional suspension or termination.

Meanwhile, we still have the 'nuclear story' to develop which seems to be about the allegation of bungs being paid to a former employee via the EBT.

Termination of the club's licence, liquidation of the business ......welcome to Tescoville sur Clyde.

Is that for the Souness payment?

[Seveno]

Just been on the phone to Mysteg Meg and here's the lowdown :

1) The SFA will impose a set of draconian punishments on Rangers for taking them to Court.
2) Rangers will cease to exist.
3) The enraged Rangers Supporters Trust will blame Duff & Phelps for failing to check the rules of the game.
4) Duff & Phelps will sue Duff & Phelps for professional negligence.
5) The Pursuers will win their case.
6) The Professional Indemnity Insurers for Duff & Phelps will refuse to meet the claim due to a breach of policy terms i.e. the action was a 'deliberate act'.
7) Duff and Phelps will go into administration.
8) Paul Whitehouse of Duff and Phelps will predict that they will successfully come out of administration within one month.
9) Mystic Meg will sue Whitehouse for breach of copyright in coming out with ridiculous predictions.
10) The story will run for eternity.

It goes without saying that Ally McCoist will demand to know the real name of Mystic Meg, for the sale of transparency.

[TrickyNicky]

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Hmm, so around 50% more wind and pish. Anyone else like to have 50% more wind and pish.

No thanks I have more than enough!

Lately I've taken to drinking light beer, you can certainly drink faster which gives the appearance of a well trained bevvy merchant however it requires much more frequent visits to the men's room, thus giving off the appearance of being one of Gary O'Connor's off yer facebook friends.

The Light beer is extremely gassy and seems to give me 50% more wind and pish- it really makes me feel bloated!

I often find myself looking down at my own manhood, trying to hurry it along and wondering if a bigger japs-eye would help.

Anyone know how much p in the pound is acceptable before liquidation?

[down-the-slope]

Anyone else like to be a fly on the wall at Hampden today......I think a few might think this is a good day for a sickie....

I have just found out I have to go to Hampden next Friday....I do hope that turns out to be an exciting day in the story...will be quite happy to give my thoughts to any passing news crews

[Seveno]

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Is that for the Souness payment?

Allegedly, there were a lot of payments over a number of years to a former employee. Can't possibly name him on a public forum.

[Matty_Jack04]

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Not what was being said by the experts calculations on Newsnight...they reckoned 2p in £ if BTC is lost and even that the 47 outstanding cost items in the 'offer' could even lead to no pot at all and in effect a negative p in the £

I haven't been watching news night I v half given up on any decent journalism been given to this and instead use this thread

Haven't I seen or heard that if the CVA is rejected then the creditors would receive around 5.5million? Now it's being mentioned that if it's accepted they could get hee haw for there troubles

Don't know if maybe I'm talking pash but if I'm not there's only one option

[Jack]

It seems from all accounts that Green has about as much money as I do – indeed I may be able to get my hands on more!

But it appears you don’t need any actual money to either buy the rancid club, or if it goes into liquidation, money to buy the assets.

What's to stop some hobo punting up and making a bid?

Also something I cant get my head round is the secret investors involved in Greens bid.

How can due diligence have possibly been gone through when they refuse to have their names known?

That’s as well as all the other reasons they're dead, see below.

[Jack]

They've gone to civil court - dead

Double contracts – double dead

Already found guilty of a whole host of stuff - dead dead dead

EBTs not looking good - dead x52

£55m in debt with about £90m more to come - dead

More whispers going on than you get in the Whispering Gallery on a school holiday about stuff that the SOCA 6s and international arrest warrants are made of - really seriously dead dead dead dead dead dead.

Inciting criminal damage, violence and death threats - dead

Just be****ingcause - dead

[Seveno]

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They've gone to civil court - dead

Double contracts – double dead

Already found guilty of a whole host of stuff - dead dead dead

EBTs not looking good - dead x52

£55m in debt with about £90m more to come - dead

More whispers going on than you get in the Whispering Gallery on a school holiday about stuff that the SOCA 6s and international arrest warrants are made of - really seriously dead dead dead dead dead dead.

Inciting criminal damage, violence and death threats - dead

Just be****ingcause - dead

They should have had you on Newsnight last night. Much better than the two numpties.