Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Gingertosser]

How about the taxman accepts the CVA (at the moment the debt is only £40ish million)

Then when the BTC hits they can then issue Rangers with a winding up order, and then they would be the main Creditor.

Would they have more of a say in how Rangers would come out of another admin period if they had 75-100% of the debt ?

[CropleyWasGod]

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How about the taxman accepts the CVA (at the moment the debt is only £40ish million)

Then when the BTC hits they can then issue Rangers with a winding up order, and then they would be the main Creditor.

Would they have more of a say in how Rangers would come out of another admin period if they had 75-100% of the debt ?

The BTC is part of the Creditors, at the amount already claimed by HMRC. It would have to be part of the CVA.

[Caversham Green]

Another expert's view - more like what me and Croppers have been saying all along...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/...-coin.17596205

[CropleyWasGod]

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Another expert's view - more like what me and Croppers have been saying all along...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/...-coin.17596205

Are you or I Dr. Beech?

And is the one of us that's not Dr.Beech going to send an invoice to him?

[ancienthibby]

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Are you or I Dr. Beech?

And is the one of us that's not Dr.Beech going to send an invoice to him?

We already know that you are Dr Beeching.

Cav G is just a young whippersnapper!

[Caversham Green]

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Are you or I Dr. Beech?

And is the one of us that's not Dr.Beech going to send an invoice to him?

We are all Doctor Beech and Dr Beech is everyone.

In fact life's a Beech.

[greenginger]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...y-McCoist.html


" I left Sheffield Utd with no debts and cash in the bank "

So reads the statement from the Gers latest fantasist saviour. Green left the club in June 1998 and I treated myself to a copy of their accounts for year to June 1998 when i was at Companies House. ( Getting my copy of the Yams comedy book )


Some Figures from the accounts the year he left the club with NO debt.

Operating Loss £ 6,076,000

Nett Current Liabilities £ 4,586,000

Nett Cash Outflow £ 1,353,000

Nett Debt at 30/6/1998 £ 5,437,000


And the weegie football press continue to print any garbage a Hun saviour says without question or checking. You would think after the Motherwell born Billionaire had made total idiots of them they might have been a bit more cautious.

THe Huns and the Hun loving Press deserve each other.

[CropleyWasGod]

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...y-McCoist.html


" I left Sheffield Utd with debts and no cash in the bank "

S:

Fixed that for you.

[Golden Bear]

Interesting. (but I suspect that it will not make any difference to the way things pan out)


http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/l...ers-situation/

[ballengeich]

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May be illegal for HMRC, but it would be a route for ANO?

If the Greyskullers dump the taxpayer with £137 million of losses, even more do I love the thought of them having to rent back the old home for ever!

At least some degree of sweet revenge!

I think it's previously been suggested that ANO is already in place. It would be a way for Rangers Leech to make his profit.

[grunt]

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Another expert's view - more like what me and Croppers have been saying all along...
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/...-coin.17596205

I like what Dr Beech says and the way he says it. "They will pursue with maximum prejudice" - sounds like something out of a Die Hard movie.
I'm less happy with Professor David Hillier of Strathclyde University's take on things.

[ancienthibby]

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I think it's previously been suggested that ANO is already in place. It would be a way for Rangers Leech to make his profit.

I did not mean an ANO from within the camp.

I meant a new player, yet to declare!

It can be done

[HibeeMG]

Given the success of the original and the best - Yamematics - and the wealth of material from our beloved Hun friends I thought it was about time we had a sequel.

QUANTUM - To the rest of the English speaking world this would be 'value'. 'Quantum' is to be used to convince the blue hordes that the people deciding the fate of their club are intelligent.

COMPANY VOLUNTARY AGREEMENT (CVA) - A financial instrument to force all creditors to accept whatever 'quantum' of money they find lying under the sofa's of Ibrox players' lounge.

NEWCO - Exactly the same as the OldCo without the debts. Nothing's changed. Move along, nothing to see here.


There's some for starters. I'm sure the more enlightened of you will be able to think up some more.

[ballengeich]

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I did not mean an ANO from within the camp.

I meant a new player, yet to declare!

It can be done

That raises the question of what happens if a cva is declined and an offer appears which beats Rangers Leech's agreed bid to set up a Newco. There's a lot more entertainment to come.

[ancienthibby]

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That raises the question of what happens if a cva is declined and an offer appears which beats Rangers Leech's agreed bid to set up a Newco. There's a lot more entertainment to come.

Agreed.

The NewHuns could still be paying extortionate rent for playing in their 'own' stadium

[cad]

Rangers appeal QC tomorrow is

ONE of the leading legal brains in the UK will spearhead Rangers' appeal against a season-long transfer embargo tomorrow.

Mr Richard Keen QC has been hired to fight the Ibrox club's corner after a Judicial Panel took the highly punitive action for "bringing the game into disrepute" at a hearing last month.

The main thrust for reaching this decision was over the non-payment of PAYE and VAT. They judged that although Craig Whyte made this decision, other directors should have known and done something about it.

Rangers put forward a compelling case that Craig Whyte was acting alone and Mr Keen will be reinforcing this view over the appeals process which could last two or three days.

Sitting on the Appeals panel are Lord Carloway, Spartans chairman Craig Graham and former Partick Thistle chairman Allan Cowan.

Manager Ally McCoist has already indicated how disastrous it would be for the club if the transfer embargo remained as it would not only prevent Rangers from signing players but lead to current stars leaving.

Mr Keen is Dean of the Faculty of Advocates in Scotland and famously acted for Al Amin Fhimah, who was acquitted at the Lockerbie Bomb trial in Holland in 2001.


You couldnt write this honestly , Donald Findlay will be involved somewhere as a character witness

[SurferRosa]

[QUOTE=cad;3227966]Rangers appeal QC tomorrow is

ONE of the leading legal brains in the UK will spearhead Rangers' appeal against a season-long transfer embargo tomorrow.

Mr Richard Keen QC has been hired to fight the Ibrox club's corner after a Judicial Panel took the highly punitive action for "bringing the game into disrepute" at a hearing last month.

The main thrust for reaching this decision was over the non-payment of PAYE and VAT. They judged that although Craig Whyte made this decision, other directors should have known and done something about it.

Rangers put forward a compelling case that Craig Whyte was acting alone and Mr Keen will be reinforcing this view over the appeals process which could last two or three days.

Sitting on the Appeals panel are Lord Carloway, Spartans chairman Craig Graham and former Partick Thistle chairman Allan Cowan.

Manager Ally McCoist has already indicated how disastrous it would be for the club if the transfer embargo remained as it would not only prevent Rangers from signing players but lead to current stars leaving.

Mr Keen is Dean of the Faculty of Advocates in Scotland and famously acted for Al Amin Fhimah, who was acquitted at the Lockerbie Bomb trial in Holland in 2001.


You couldnt write this honestly , Donald Findlay will be involved somewhere as a character witness


I wonder how much of the CVA pot his fee will use up.

[One Day Soon]

Mr Richard Keen has a number of areas of current and previous expertise in his playbook.

Most hilariously this one:

"tie Limited v Bilfinger Berger and Others (2011)
Richard is currently instructed on behalf of tie with respect to claims arising out of and in respect of the construction of the Edinburgh Tram Network.

TIE, the company which brought us trams project mismanagement on an intergalactic scale, is of course nothing like Rangers. One is a financially dubious institution, lacking in effective corporate governance, leaderless, has run out of financial control for some years and is now at the mercy of much wider forces. The other is, er,...

I wonder if the Greek government has considered engaging Mr Keen's services too?

[Brando7]

found this on a tic site


The Battered Bunnet on 15 May, 2012 at 14:16 said:

Well played Rod Petrie. I think our own Leadership will need to declare Celtic’s position ahead of the vote, but the situation remains complicated by D&P/Green’s insistence on performing the CVA charade.

My sense is that while this CVA charade is being played out, the Green People are busying themselves with creating the structure that will permit NewClub to be Licensed in time for next season. In essence, in a short number of days the SFA and SPL will know the intention of the Green People, but will be bound from revealing that to the rest of us by non disclosure terms.

Meantime, we have the SPL Inquiry into the issue of the invalid Registration of Players by Rangers. D&P, acting in their capacity as Court Appointed Managers of Rangers, are obliged to cooperate fully with the governing bodies of the game, acting at all times according to the various Articles, Rules and Contracts regulating Rangers’ participation in the Game in Scotland.

They are obliged to disclose any and all relevant information requested, albeit that disclosure of documents that form evidence presented to the Tax Tribunal may be subject to restrictions.

Nevertheless, what the SPL have asked Harper McLeod’s top legal brains to undertake is essentially a simple Quality Audit. Such a process is very straightforward, requiring little more than a clear description of the Process and Procedures in question, and a comparison of Rangers’ actions against that Process to determine Compliance.

My understanding is that Rangers registered around 75 players in the period in question whose registrations may be questionable.

The SPL will have provided Harper McLeod with a written Instruction that includes Methodology, Deliverables, Stage Gates and Timescales. A formal brief.

As with any audit, a sample of transactions will have been tested initially. This is a practical approach that prevents unnecessary expense from being incurred. Harper McLeod will initally have tested perhaps 10 Regostrations against the defined Process. The results of this will have been reported on within a short timescale, at which point the Brief reached a Stage Gate, and the SPL will have had a decision to make on whether to proceed or not.

If the testing revealed no breaches of Process,the purpose of the audit has been satisfied,and it is likely that the Instruction will have been terminated, and the book closed.

More likely, the testing has identified one or more breaches of Process, and the SPL decision will have extended the Instruction to investigate all relevant transactions to quantify and qualify the extent of the breaches.

It takes around one hour to audit a transaction, if you’re really, really slow. I’ll betya even BlantyreKev could do one in less than 55 minutes. All you require is the relevant Documents and the defined Process. Follow the trail. Was the Process implemented properly? Yes/No. Tick/Cross. Next.

The initial brief was provided on 5th MArch or thereabouts. The SPL knew the result of the initial testing when they received the draft report weeks ago. It is likely that they have instructed a full audit, which would have been completed within 100 labour hours. Perhaps further issues have arisen, and the Auditors are testing other related Processes.

Whatever the situation, it is a given that the Final Report is not delayed by Harper McLeod’s diffidence or restraint.

The consequences of breaches of Player Registration are profound. A player whose registration is invalid, is INELIGIBLE to play. Rangers are suspected of invalidly registering around 75 players, who subsequently participated in as many as 500 SPL matches.

The purpose behind the breaches in Registration was to disguise a multi-million pound fraud on the Treasury, itself conceived to gain competitive advantage on the football pitch, which subsequently delivered 6 Champions League participations worth some £20M per season.

Additionally, Rangers were awarded an additional £1.5M per season in results related SPL prize money over and above participation fees.

The economic benefits to Rangers of this approach to Tax and Football regulation, is in the order of £50M of payroll costs saved, and in excess of £100M of SPL and UEFA prize money won. Perhaps as much as £200 Million of benefit in total.

During the period of this ‘irregular’ approach to regulation, Rangers Directors Campbell Ogilvie, John McClelland and Martin Bain were at various times Directors of the SPL. McClelland was Chairman of Rangers during the period of acceleration in the use of these schemes while being SPL Director 2003-2005.

He was also a member of UEFA’s Club Competition Committee and a member of the European Club Association.

Martin Bain was an SPL Director from 2008 to 2011, a period in which Rangers use of the Tax scheme continued despite HMRC having determined that it was illegal in 2008, and submitting a £36M demand for payment that same year.

Campbell Ogilvie was a SPL Director for a short period only at inception, while simultaneously a Director of Rangers and Director and then Vice President of the SFA.

Bain and Ogilvie we now know were benficiares of the EBT scheme, in addition to being responsible for implementing it.

Rangers, if the allegation is held, will have breached a number of SPL Articles and Rules, the most significant of which is the undertaking to act ‘in the utmost good faith’ to the SPL and member clubs at all times.

Rangers in such a situation, will have rendered the SPL a meaningless circus since its inception in 1998.

The only reasonable sanction for such a breach of faith is expulsion from the SPL.

The results of this inquiry are germane to the integrity of the competitions run by the SFA, the SFL and UEFA. Each in turn will require to consider any appropriate measures for Rangers having breached their Articles and Rules, and corrupted their competitions in the same manner as the SPL’s.

At face value, the outcome is a given: Expulsion.

However, this is Scotland, and it seems the Rules of the Game are applied to everyone equally, except Rangers, without whom we would….. well, we would have honest competition and a fair Game.

[poolman]

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found this on a tic site


The Battered Bunnet on 15 May, 2012 at 14:16 said:

Well played Rod Petrie. I think our own Leadership will need to declare Celtic’s position ahead of the vote, but the situation remains complicated by D&P/Green’s insistence on performing the CVA charade.

My sense is that while this CVA charade is being played out, the Green People are busying themselves with creating the structure that will permit NewClub to be Licensed in time for next season. In essence, in a short number of days the SFA and SPL will know the intention of the Green People, but will be bound from revealing that to the rest of us by non disclosure terms.

Meantime, we have the SPL Inquiry into the issue of the invalid Registration of Players by Rangers. D&P, acting in their capacity as Court Appointed Managers of Rangers, are obliged to cooperate fully with the governing bodies of the game, acting at all times according to the various Articles, Rules and Contracts regulating Rangers’ participation in the Game in Scotland.

They are obliged to disclose any and all relevant information requested, albeit that disclosure of documents that form evidence presented to the Tax Tribunal may be subject to restrictions.

Nevertheless, what the SPL have asked Harper McLeod’s top legal brains to undertake is essentially a simple Quality Audit. Such a process is very straightforward, requiring little more than a clear description of the Process and Procedures in question, and a comparison of Rangers’ actions against that Process to determine Compliance.

My understanding is that Rangers registered around 75 players in the period in question whose registrations may be questionable.

The SPL will have provided Harper McLeod with a written Instruction that includes Methodology, Deliverables, Stage Gates and Timescales. A formal brief.

As with any audit, a sample of transactions will have been tested initially. This is a practical approach that prevents unnecessary expense from being incurred. Harper McLeod will initally have tested perhaps 10 Regostrations against the defined Process. The results of this will have been reported on within a short timescale, at which point the Brief reached a Stage Gate, and the SPL will have had a decision to make on whether to proceed or not.

If the testing revealed no breaches of Process,the purpose of the audit has been satisfied,and it is likely that the Instruction will have been terminated, and the book closed.

More likely, the testing has identified one or more breaches of Process, and the SPL decision will have extended the Instruction to investigate all relevant transactions to quantify and qualify the extent of the breaches.

It takes around one hour to audit a transaction, if you’re really, really slow. I’ll betya even BlantyreKev could do one in less than 55 minutes. All you require is the relevant Documents and the defined Process. Follow the trail. Was the Process implemented properly? Yes/No. Tick/Cross. Next.

The initial brief was provided on 5th MArch or thereabouts. The SPL knew the result of the initial testing when they received the draft report weeks ago. It is likely that they have instructed a full audit, which would have been completed within 100 labour hours. Perhaps further issues have arisen, and the Auditors are testing other related Processes.

Whatever the situation, it is a given that the Final Report is not delayed by Harper McLeod’s diffidence or restraint.

The consequences of breaches of Player Registration are profound. A player whose registration is invalid, is INELIGIBLE to play. Rangers are suspected of invalidly registering around 75 players, who subsequently participated in as many as 500 SPL matches.

The purpose behind the breaches in Registration was to disguise a multi-million pound fraud on the Treasury, itself conceived to gain competitive advantage on the football pitch, which subsequently delivered 6 Champions League participations worth some £20M per season.

Additionally, Rangers were awarded an additional £1.5M per season in results related SPL prize money over and above participation fees.

The economic benefits to Rangers of this approach to Tax and Football regulation, is in the order of £50M of payroll costs saved, and in excess of £100M of SPL and UEFA prize money won. Perhaps as much as £200 Million of benefit in total.

During the period of this ‘irregular’ approach to regulation, Rangers Directors Campbell Ogilvie, John McClelland and Martin Bain were at various times Directors of the SPL. McClelland was Chairman of Rangers during the period of acceleration in the use of these schemes while being SPL Director 2003-2005.

He was also a member of UEFA’s Club Competition Committee and a member of the European Club Association.

Martin Bain was an SPL Director from 2008 to 2011, a period in which Rangers use of the Tax scheme continued despite HMRC having determined that it was illegal in 2008, and submitting a £36M demand for payment that same year.

Campbell Ogilvie was a SPL Director for a short period only at inception, while simultaneously a Director of Rangers and Director and then Vice President of the SFA.

Bain and Ogilvie we now know were benficiares of the EBT scheme, in addition to being responsible for implementing it.

Rangers, if the allegation is held, will have breached a number of SPL Articles and Rules, the most significant of which is the undertaking to act ‘in the utmost good faith’ to the SPL and member clubs at all times.

Rangers in such a situation, will have rendered the SPL a meaningless circus since its inception in 1998.

The only reasonable sanction for such a breach of faith is expulsion from the SPL.

The results of this inquiry are germane to the integrity of the competitions run by the SFA, the SFL and UEFA. Each in turn will require to consider any appropriate measures for Rangers having breached their Articles and Rules, and corrupted their competitions in the same manner as the SPL’s.

At face value, the outcome is a given: Expulsion.

However, this is Scotland, and it seems the Rules of the Game are applied to everyone equally, except Rangers, without whom we would….. well, we would have honest competition and a fair Game.

That's a really good, interesting post

I think once this debacle has all been sorted and done and dusted the powers that be at should make this thread into a book in time for Xmas

We could also send a copy to Sally Mcoist

[WindyMiller]

The fact that this has been a very high profile affair and has ran on now for 3 months (with more to come, I think), should mean that the SFA will have great difficulty sweeping this under the carpet as Uefa will be all over them if they try it.

[green glory]

SFA appeal verdict won't be coming. Need more time to deliberate apparently.

Anything that causes more uncertainty in Hunland is good in my book.

[TheEastTerrace]

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found this on a tic site


The Battered Bunnet on 15 May, 2012 at 14:16 said:

Well played Rod Petrie. I think our own Leadership will need to declare Celtic’s position ahead of the vote, but the situation remains complicated by D&P/Green’s insistence on performing the CVA charade.

My sense is that while this CVA charade is being played out, the Green People are busying themselves with creating the structure that will permit NewClub to be Licensed in time for next season. In essence, in a short number of days the SFA and SPL will know the intention of the Green People, but will be bound from revealing that to the rest of us by non disclosure terms.

Meantime, we have the SPL Inquiry into the issue of the invalid Registration of Players by Rangers. D&P, acting in their capacity as Court Appointed Managers of Rangers, are obliged to cooperate fully with the governing bodies of the game, acting at all times according to the various Articles, Rules and Contracts regulating Rangers’ participation in the Game in Scotland.

They are obliged to disclose any and all relevant information requested, albeit that disclosure of documents that form evidence presented to the Tax Tribunal may be subject to restrictions.

Nevertheless, what the SPL have asked Harper McLeod’s top legal brains to undertake is essentially a simple Quality Audit. Such a process is very straightforward, requiring little more than a clear description of the Process and Procedures in question, and a comparison of Rangers’ actions against that Process to determine Compliance.

My understanding is that Rangers registered around 75 players in the period in question whose registrations may be questionable.

The SPL will have provided Harper McLeod with a written Instruction that includes Methodology, Deliverables, Stage Gates and Timescales. A formal brief.

As with any audit, a sample of transactions will have been tested initially. This is a practical approach that prevents unnecessary expense from being incurred. Harper McLeod will initally have tested perhaps 10 Regostrations against the defined Process. The results of this will have been reported on within a short timescale, at which point the Brief reached a Stage Gate, and the SPL will have had a decision to make on whether to proceed or not.

If the testing revealed no breaches of Process,the purpose of the audit has been satisfied,and it is likely that the Instruction will have been terminated, and the book closed.

More likely, the testing has identified one or more breaches of Process, and the SPL decision will have extended the Instruction to investigate all relevant transactions to quantify and qualify the extent of the breaches.

It takes around one hour to audit a transaction, if you’re really, really slow. I’ll betya even BlantyreKev could do one in less than 55 minutes. All you require is the relevant Documents and the defined Process. Follow the trail. Was the Process implemented properly? Yes/No. Tick/Cross. Next.

The initial brief was provided on 5th MArch or thereabouts. The SPL knew the result of the initial testing when they received the draft report weeks ago. It is likely that they have instructed a full audit, which would have been completed within 100 labour hours. Perhaps further issues have arisen, and the Auditors are testing other related Processes.

Whatever the situation, it is a given that the Final Report is not delayed by Harper McLeod’s diffidence or restraint.

The consequences of breaches of Player Registration are profound. A player whose registration is invalid, is INELIGIBLE to play. Rangers are suspected of invalidly registering around 75 players, who subsequently participated in as many as 500 SPL matches.

The purpose behind the breaches in Registration was to disguise a multi-million pound fraud on the Treasury, itself conceived to gain competitive advantage on the football pitch, which subsequently delivered 6 Champions League participations worth some £20M per season.

Additionally, Rangers were awarded an additional £1.5M per season in results related SPL prize money over and above participation fees.

The economic benefits to Rangers of this approach to Tax and Football regulation, is in the order of £50M of payroll costs saved, and in excess of £100M of SPL and UEFA prize money won. Perhaps as much as £200 Million of benefit in total.

During the period of this ‘irregular’ approach to regulation, Rangers Directors Campbell Ogilvie, John McClelland and Martin Bain were at various times Directors of the SPL. McClelland was Chairman of Rangers during the period of acceleration in the use of these schemes while being SPL Director 2003-2005.

He was also a member of UEFA’s Club Competition Committee and a member of the European Club Association.

Martin Bain was an SPL Director from 2008 to 2011, a period in which Rangers use of the Tax scheme continued despite HMRC having determined that it was illegal in 2008, and submitting a £36M demand for payment that same year.

Campbell Ogilvie was a SPL Director for a short period only at inception, while simultaneously a Director of Rangers and Director and then Vice President of the SFA.

Bain and Ogilvie we now know were benficiares of the EBT scheme, in addition to being responsible for implementing it.

Rangers, if the allegation is held, will have breached a number of SPL Articles and Rules, the most significant of which is the undertaking to act ‘in the utmost good faith’ to the SPL and member clubs at all times.

Rangers in such a situation, will have rendered the SPL a meaningless circus since its inception in 1998.

The only reasonable sanction for such a breach of faith is expulsion from the SPL.

The results of this inquiry are germane to the integrity of the competitions run by the SFA, the SFL and UEFA. Each in turn will require to consider any appropriate measures for Rangers having breached their Articles and Rules, and corrupted their competitions in the same manner as the SPL’s.

At face value, the outcome is a given: Expulsion.

However, this is Scotland, and it seems the Rules of the Game are applied to everyone equally, except Rangers, without whom we would….. well, we would have honest competition and a fair Game.

Think that was written by Tony McKelvie - worth following him on Twitter for the ins and outs of this saga

[calmac12000]

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SFA appeal verdict won't be coming. Need more time to deliberate apparently.

Anything that causes more uncertainty in Hunland is good in my book.

It also gives the SFA more time to think of an excuse for exonarating Rangers.

[Sylar]

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SFA appeal verdict won't be coming. Need more time to deliberate apparently.

Anything that causes more uncertainty in Hunland is good in my book.

They didn't require more time when it Livingston - they couldn't wait to deliver their verdict!

More time to deliberate = more time to justify excusing Rangers and waiving the sanctions in my eyes.

[greenginger]

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They didn't require more time when it Livingston - they couldn't wait to deliver their verdict!

More time to deliberate = more time to justify excusing Rangers and waiving the sanctions in my eyes.

Or maybe putting it off until after the Cup Final to defuse the Huns assault on Hampden.

[hibs0666]

Doddle

[Jim44]

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SFA appeal verdict won't be coming. Need more time to deliberate apparently.

Anything that causes more uncertainty in Hunland is good in my book.

I thought the meeting was sceduled for later today.

[IWasThere2016]

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They didn't require more time when it Livingston - they couldn't wait to deliver their verdict!

More time to deliberate = more time to justify excusing Rangers and waiving the sanctions in my eyes.

Strange IMHO when one is as loathesome as the other for me

[hibs0666]

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I thought the meeting was sceduled for later today.

It is, but it is expected that a decision might not be reached for a couple of days depending upon the weight of evidence presented by the huns.