Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[StevieC]

Is there much difference between the current bid and the Miller bid. Both seem to have. Been based on meeting certain criteria prior to completion, with little chance of the criteria being met. Miller needed the figures to be right for completion .. they weren't, and he stated as much when he said that D&P were more than a little optimistic with the figures. The Green bid seems to be hingeing on a CVA that has little chance of success. D&P have even been careful to point out the 28 day cooling off period, I'm assuming in anticipation of a court related objection (HMRC?).
I could be wrong but this doesn't seem as cut and dried as some of the media/Huns are making out?

[bighairyfaeleith]

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Is there much difference between the current bid and the Miller bid. Both seem to have. Been based on meeting certain criteria prior to completion, with little chance of the criteria being met. Miller needed the figures to be right for completion .. they weren't, and he stated as much when he said that D&P were more than a little optimistic with the figures. The Green bid seems to be hingeing on a CVA that has little chance of success. D&P have even been careful to point out the 28 day cooling off period, I'm assuming in anticipation of a court related objection (HMRC?).
I could be wrong but this doesn't seem as cut and dried as some of the media/Huns are making out?

A CVA is very unlikely to happen, Green knows this and is just playing to the gallery. Liquidation will happen and the fight will then begin over which new rangers is allowed back in, blue knights gers or green gers

[McD]

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Is there much difference between the current bid and the Miller bid. Both seem to have. Been based on meeting certain criteria prior to completion, with little chance of the criteria being met. Miller needed the figures to be right for completion .. they weren't, and he stated as much when he said that D&P were more than a little optimistic with the figures. The Green bid seems to be hingeing on a CVA that has little chance of success. D&P have even been careful to point out the 28 day cooling off period, I'm assuming in anticipation of a court related objection (HMRC?).
I could be wrong but this doesn't seem as cut and dried as some of the media/Huns are making out?

In regards to the 28 day cooling off period, I assume that a creditor(s) has the full 28 days to lodge an objection?

If so, bearing in mind the nonsense thats gone on so far, would anyone put it past HMRC (or any other creditor) to wait till the last moment then object, therefore dragging the process out further and making it much difficult to get at newco/cva in place before next season?

[down-the-slope]

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Is there much difference between the current bid and the Miller bid. Both seem to have. Been based on meeting certain criteria prior to completion, with little chance of the criteria being met. Miller needed the figures to be right for completion .. they weren't, and he stated as much when he said that D&P were more than a little optimistic with the figures. The Green bid seems to be hingeing on a CVA that has little chance of success. D&P have even been careful to point out the 28 day cooling off period, I'm assuming in anticipation of a court related objection (HMRC?).
I could be wrong but this doesn't seem as cut and dried as some of the media/Huns are making out?

Maybe..my thinking is that he (and who ever the 20 investors behind him are ) are really wanting a NewCo as that is clean and a cheap way to get the assets / brand / money making vehicle without all the baggage.....BUT they have to be seen to try CVA for PR reasons and to placate the moronic masses...when that fails they can blame everyone else, say they tried and explain that due to this we are forced to cut cut cut...but please turn up and Support your club / buy ST's XXXXL shirts etc.

The irony is there is plenty money to make out of Rangers if costs are controlled as it does not need that much to be compeditive in SPL - given the level of 'investment' (less Than Murray paid for Tore Andre Flo lets not forget )if you can bury the debt and don't mind living without morals then its a winner

[Lucius Apuleius]

So when do the fixtures come out for next season?

[Brebners Bookie]

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Anyone know how the SPL get away with making any vote on a newco an 8-4 vote? Surely as important a decision as this should fall under the umbrella of the OFs precious 11-1 vote.

Was wondering this myself. As usual our highly professional investigative journalists have let this important talking point pass them by.

[Eric]

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So when do the fixtures come out for next season?

If previous seasons are anything to go by, in the week commencing 17 June.

[Sylar]

Delighted to see that Livingston intend to sue the SFL if the sanctions imposed on Rangers are overturned.

Decided to have a quick glance on FollowFollow at their thoughts on this and the level of ignorance on the subject is beyond laughable.

I dare say my post making points to this effect may see me banned right enough, but hey ho

[VickMackie]

Anyone got a link to this Livingston legal action?

I fail to see how that could work against the SFL given that it's separate from the SPL. Maybe a case against the SFAX?

[Sylar]

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Anyone got a link to this Livingston legal action?

I fail to see how that could work against the SFL given that it's separate from the SPL. Maybe a case against the SFAX?

The appeals committee which will oversee Rangers transfer embargo appeal is comprised of SFL/SFA members rather than SPL and will be the same "body" which overseen Livingston's punishment and subsequent appeal, hence why they'll be able to take action.

I don't have a link, but it was discussed on Sportsound last night.

[VickMackie]

Thanks. That makes sense.

[PatHead]

Had a look on Follow Follow and came up with this gem

"Rangers were the victim of whytes actions. Can you imagine a victim of crime being told it was your fault and you are being punished?"

They don't get it do they. For any Teddy Bears reading....................... Your club were fu%%ed before Craig Whyte came along. All the Directors, especially SDM and CW have systematically raped your club and the taxpayer over a number of years whilst shafting Scottish football. That is why you should and are being penalised. For what it is worth you do not have a hope in hell of a CVA and will be liquidated as your assets are worth far more than the offer from Green. Green and friends will then buy the club lock, stock and barrell and pass it into a newco.

[ScottB]

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Had a look on Follow Follow and came up with this gem

"Rangers were the victim of whytes actions. Can you imagine a victim of crime being told it was your fault and you are being punished?"

They don't get it do they. For any Teddy Bears reading....................... Your club were fu%%ed before Craig Whyte came along. All the Directors, especially SDM and CW have systematically raped your club and the taxpayer over a number of years whilst shafting Scottish football. That is why you should and are being penalised. For what it is worth you do not have a hope in hell of a CVA and will be liquidated as your assets are worth far more than the offer from Green. Green and friends will then buy the club lock, stock and barrell and pass it into a newco.

Even if you take that argument at face value, what did the club do to stop him? What did the Bains and the 'Good Rangers Men' like Greg do? Oh yeah, they either bailed out or said nothing. What did the fans do? They turned on any bit of media that was trying to warn them, like the Rangers Tax Case Blog, while they lapped up the Record and co's nonsense about Whyte's off the radar, billionaire wealth.

So to use this chumps analogy, it'd be like expecting your insurance to pay out for your house being robbed by a burglar that you invited in after your neighbour telling you that's what they were, then just sat there and watched them loot the place.

[jodjam]

It's probably been brought up already but could this be a likely scenario ;

CVA accepted at whatever in the pound.
HMRC , further to this, agree some sort of payment plan with huns stretching over a number of years.

Would leave them financially jiggered for a few years but allow them to carry on.

[Winston Ingram]

Channel 4 Graphic on Rangers

11_rangersg_x_A11.jpg

[jonty]

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From @alextomo

Attachment 8229


(should be clickable to be seen larger)
Yours is too small mainboy

http://p.twimg.com/AsnaJ9YCMAAbm36.jpg:large

Alex Thomson explains the graphic

http://bcove.me/97nmpxfm

[magpie1892]

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It's probably been brought up already but could this be a likely scenario ;

CVA accepted at whatever in the pound.
HMRC , further to this, agree some sort of payment plan with huns stretching over a number of years.

Would leave them financially jiggered for a few years but allow them to carry on.

Possible, but highly unlikely. They're going to be liquidated, and they know it.

[CropleyWasGod]

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It's probably been brought up already but could this be a likely scenario ;

CVA accepted at whatever in the pound.
HMRC , further to this, agree some sort of payment plan with huns stretching over a number of years.

Would leave them financially jiggered for a few years but allow them to carry on.

HMRC can't get any more in the £ than any other creditor, if that's what you mean.

[blackpoolhibs]

Whats stopping Rangers doing a deal with the tax man, with say £10m a year for 15 years if the debt is £150m, with a bit extra at the end in interest? Or do the HMRC not do deals like this?

Is this too simple, as it does seem the best outcome for them and the tax payers?

[Caversham Green]

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Even if you take that argument at face value, what did the club do to stop him? What did the Bains and the 'Good Rangers Men' like Greg do? Oh yeah, they either bailed out or said nothing. What did the fans do? They turned on any bit of media that was trying to warn them, like the Rangers Tax Case Blog, while they lapped up the Record and co's nonsense about Whyte's off the radar, billionaire wealth.

So to use this chumps analogy, it'd be like expecting your insurance to pay out for your house being robbed by a burglar that you invited in after your neighbour telling you that's what they were, then just sat there and watched them loot the place.

Just to add to that, the amount they withheld from HMRC (and will not now repay so effectively they stole it) is equivalent to the total annual turnover of Hibs and Hearts combined. That's money that Ranger FC - not Craig Whyte, who made no personal gain from it - used towards an unfair sporting advantage over the rest of the league.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Whats stopping Rangers doing a deal with the tax man, with say £10m a year for 15 years if the debt is £150m, with a bit extra at the end in interest? Or do the HMRC not do deals like this?

Is this too simple, as it does seem the best outcome for them and the tax payers?

HMRC can agree to payment by instalment, and often do. However, I have never heard of anything longer than 3 years. 15 years would be a real departure. Also:-

1. the interest on that might double the amount due.

2. it would set a precedent, and every slow taxpayer in the country would want the same deal.

[blackpoolhibs]

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HMRC can offer time to pay, and often do. However, I have never heard of anything longer than 3 years. 15 years would be a real departure. Also:-

1. the interest on that might double the amount due.

2. it would set a precedent, and every slow taxpayer in the country would want the same deal.

Thanks, i knew there would be a simple answer why it couldn't work. I like the 3 years deal though, that would smart a little.

[Brando7]

So creditors meeting on 9th June if agreed there a 28 day cooling off period agaainst objections so we now around 7th July 3-4 wks before the new season starts, if the CVA agreed then somone objects n they try to form a newco no chance it be done in 3-4wks

just hope to god the 30th May meeting does not get put on hold again which i'm goot a feeling it might & wot happens with the Sky deal, they gona sit about till 3 wks beforew the season starts to get a deal put in place?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Thanks, i knew there would be a simple answer why it couldn't work. I like the 3 years deal though, that would smart a little.

That's unlikely too, although very attractive.

As I said above, HMRC will get the same p/£ as everyone else, whether in a CVA or liquidation. In theory, that will be payable more or less immediately.

[CropleyWasGod]

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So creditors meeting on 9th June if agreed there a 28 day cooling off period agaainst objections so we now around 7th July 3-4 wks before the new season starts, if the CVA agreed then somone objects n they try to form a newco no chance it be done in 3-4wks

just hope to god the 30th May meeting does not get put on hold again which i'm goot a feeling it might & wot happens with the Sky deal, they gona sit about till 3 wks beforew the season starts to get a deal put in place?

A company can be formed in a matter of hours.

The transferring of the main assets shouldn't take very long. IIRC, there are agreed terms for that already, so there should be no negotiation needed. The problem, to my mind, is the player situation and the licence.

Sky will wait.. they can afford to, indeed are probably in the stronger postion.

[ancienthibby]

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A company can be formed in a matter of hours.

The transferring of the main assets shouldn't take very long. IIRC, there are agreed terms for that already, so there should be no negotiation needed. The problem, to my mind, is the player situation and the licence.

Sky will wait.. they can afford to, indeed are probably in the stronger postion.

If liquidation is now the most likely outcome, why would HMRC not use a vehicle company and buy Hunbox for £10 million and then lease it to Newco for £2 million a year in perpetuity?

[CropleyWasGod]

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If liquidation is now the most likely outcome, why would HMRC not use a vehicle company and buy Hunbox for £10 million and then lease it to Newco for £2 million a year in perpetuity?

Tis a lovely thought, but probably totally illegal.

[ancienthibby]

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Tis a lovely thought, but probably totally illegal.

May be illegal for HMRC, but it would be a route for ANO?

If the Greyskullers dump the taxpayer with £137 million of losses, even more do I love the thought of them having to rent back the old home for ever!

At least some degree of sweet revenge!

[Winston Ingram]

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May be illegal for HMRC, but it would be a route for ANO?

If the Greyskullers dump the taxpayer with £137 million of losses, even more do I love the thought of them having to rent back the old home for ever!

At least some degree of sweet revenge!

I'm surprised Ticketus don't fancy it. Why worry about 3 years when you can have a lifetimes worth?

[CropleyWasGod]

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I'm surprised Ticketus don't fancy it. Why worry about 3 years when you can have a lifetimes worth?

... especially if they can use the money they're suing CW for.