Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Gettin' Auld]

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Shouldn't take long, anyone wanting to buy that shower clearly isn't a fit and proper person!!!

[ScottB]

From his statement it sounds like he will be in for the short term then looking to sell up.

Surely recent years suggest that there isn't a large number of people interested in owning that lot!

[1875godsgift]

When is the verdict on the EBT due? Surely it's in HMRCs best interest to get this out as soon as possible, in order to make their share of any CVA pot bigger?

[DH1875]

Why would the creditors accept £8.5 million? Surely if you sold off all Rangers assets it would come to more.

I find the most interesting thing so far is that Craig Whyte just handed over the club for nowt .

[Leithenhibby]

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Why would the creditors accept £8.5 million? Surely if you sold off all Rangers assets it would come to more.

I find the most interesting thing so far is that Craig Whyte just handed over the club for nowt .

The thing is, nobody was going to give him the "£30 million" reported...

£8.5m is short of B Miller, but TBK's came in well short of Charlie boy IIRC ...

[Lungo--Drom]

Quod est hilares domine! :D :D :D

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"Quod Spero they operor"


" Vos can tantum tripudio per diabolus pro adeo ,then vos exuro quod intereo"

[ScottB]

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Why would the creditors accept £8.5 million? Surely if you sold off all Rangers assets it would come to more.

I find the most interesting thing so far is that Craig Whyte just handed over the club for nowt .

Well his shares are worthless and the fans would string him up if he ever went near the place again. I suspect he just wants rid.

I suppose he may have tried to shift his Ticketus liability, if it exists, but I can't imagine anyone would agree to that either. Given that liquidation is still the likeliest outcome, I suspect this is a token gesture to take some heat off himself.

[Moulin Yarns]

A new Alex Thomson Blog has appeared.

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...substance/1481

[Lungo--Drom]

Agree. Right now if I was to stand at one of Edmiston Drive wearing green and white and a t-shirt that said "All huns are in-bred ******ed fatties!" and Craig Whyte was standing at the other end, as soon as the orcs came pouring out the front gate of Castle Greyskull I'd fancy my chances cause I think CW would be heading for a lamppost first :O ;) :)

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Well his shares are worthless and the fans would string him up if he ever went near the place again. I suspect he just wants rid.

I suppose he may have tried to shift his Ticketus liability, if it exists, but I can't imagine anyone would agree to that either. Given that liquidation is still the likeliest outcome, I suspect this is a token gesture to take some heat off himself.

[Keith_M]

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Agree. Right now if I was to stand at one of Edmiston Drive wearing green and white and a t-shirt that said "All huns are in-bred ******ed fatties!" and Craig Whyte was standing at the other end, as soon as the orcs came pouring out the front gate of Castle Greyskull I'd fancy my chances cause I think CW would be heading for a lamppost first :O ;) :)

Where did you get my T-Shirt???

[Spike Mandela]

Reading Green's plan to me it seems clear that he is using a form of blackmail. Agree a CVA or we will form a newco remove all the assets and leave you with oldco, liquidation and very little if any recompense.

Is there anything to stop the major creditors HMRC and Ticketus offering the administrators more money than Green to obtain the assets?

We all know Green is offering next to nothing for the assets but as soon as he owns them he will immediately claim that Ibrox and Murray park are worth a significantly greater amount. So play him at his own game, HMRC and/or Ticketus could buy out the assets then lease back these assets or indeed sell them at a later date for closer to market value.

[sahib]

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Reading Green's plan to me it seems clear that he is using a form of blackmail. Agree a CVA or we will form a newco remove all the assets and leave you with oldco, liquidation and very little if any recompense.

Is there anything to stop the major creditors HMRC and Ticketus offering the administrators more money than Green to obtain the assets?

We all know Green is offering next to nothing for the assets but as soon as he owns them he will immediately claim that Ibrox and Murray park are worth a significantly greater amount. So play him at his own game, HMRC and/or Ticketus could buy out the assets then lease back these assets or indeed sell them at a later date for closer to market value.

Can it really be the case, that a new owner forms a newco and transfers all the assets to newco, merely leaving a hollow shell of a company, with all the debts? Could the debtors not get some sort of court order to stop the transfer of the assets until accounts are settled?

[down-the-slope]

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Can it really be the case, that a new owner forms a newco and transfers all the assets to newco, merely leaving a hollow shell of a company, with all the debts? Could the debtors not get some sort of court order to stop the transfer of the assets until accounts are settled?

Thats the bit that I can't see as legal...if no CVA then surely liquidation? Moving assets to create Phoenix companies and avoid liabilities can't be done - so i'm not sure how the Administrators can have the NewCo clause in place when liquidation may see others prepared to enter the fray as then the debts are in effect not an issue and creditors get what ever proceeds such a sale realises....what if ticketas fancies owning a nice shiney stadium .... and renting it to any future NewCo as a means of getting better value for its position...

[TornadoHibby]

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Thats the bit that I can't see as legal...if no CVA then surely liquidation? Moving assets to create Phoenix companies and avoid liabilities can't be done - so i'm not sure how the Administrators can have the NewCo clause in place when liquidation may see others prepared to enter the fray as then the debts are in effect not an issue and creditors get what ever proceeds such a sale realises....what if ticketas fancies owning a nice shiney stadium .... and renting it to any future NewCo as a means of getting better value for its position...

Nothing wrong with this provided the assets "change hands" to Newco for "market value"!

Why, because that's the best estimate of what the original company with the debts could have sold them for!

[ScottB]

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Thats the bit that I can't see as legal...if no CVA then surely liquidation? Moving assets to create Phoenix companies and avoid liabilities can't be done - so i'm not sure how the Administrators can have the NewCo clause in place when liquidation may see others prepared to enter the fray as then the debts are in effect not an issue and creditors get what ever proceeds such a sale realises....what if ticketas fancies owning a nice shiney stadium .... and renting it to any future NewCo as a means of getting better value for its position...

Perhaps it's an agreement that they must bid as a newco, rather than a guarantee that they'd be the only ones to do so.

I wonder if fan anger stirred up by the Blue Knights could lead to a situation of two or more New Rangers trying to buy assets and start again...

[down-the-slope]

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Nothing wrong with this provided the assets "change hands" to Newco for "market value"!

Why, because that's the best estimate of what the original company with the debts could have sold them for!

But that is the issue...if its a 'private' sale by D&P how can market value be judged when they have been trying thus far to sell lock stock and barrel via CVA...

If its assets only and no toxic debts / contracts etc then others may fanct the cleanness of that...surely they have a duty to continue to sek best for creditors...if not the creditors can seek a court order blocking such a sale...(which I hope they would / will)

[TornadoHibby]

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But that is the issue...if its a 'private' sale by D&P how can market value be judged when they have been trying thus far to sell lock stock and barrel via CVA...

If its assets only and no toxic debts / contracts etc then others may fanct the cleanness of that...surely they have a duty to continue to sek best for creditors...if not the creditors can seek a court order blocking such a sale...(which I hope they would / will)

I imagine that independant professional valuations will be obtained for existing use as well as alternative viable uses and assessments would have to be made regarding the nature, complexity, timescales and likelihood of obtaining consents for the alternative uses before determining the "market value" to be used although existing use would usually be the norm I guess!

[WindyMiller]

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I imagine that independant professional valuations will be obtained for existing use as well as alternative viable uses and assessments would have to be made regarding the nature, complexity, timescales and likelihood of obtaining consents for the alternative uses before determining the "market value" to be used although existing use would usually be the norm I guess!

Meanwhile, who pays the bills?

[Eyrie]

Green appears to have the newco in place already, if part of this article is anything to go by.

And he became a director of Sevco 5088 Ltd earlier this month, although the company - which was only formed on 29 March - has not yet listed what its activities are.

[TornadoHibby]

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Meanwhile, who pays the bills?

In practical terms, the company in administration (to justify the value(s) for the assets) but the return to the creditors is reduced, of course, £ for £!

The Purchaser would also take independant professional advice on the value(s) I imagine!

[WindyMiller]

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In practical terms, the company in administration (to justify the value(s) for the assets) but the return to the creditors is reduced, of course, £ for £!

The Purchaser would also take independant professional advice on the value(s) I imagine!

Where would the cash come from?

[TornadoHibby]

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Where would the cash come from?

From the cash flow of the company in administration post the appointment of the Administrators!

[Seveno]

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Green appears to have the newco in place already, if part of this article is anything to go by.

Seems to have attended the same business school as Craigy. In for a quick buck and leave a mess behind.

We wish you our very best, Mr Green.

[Just Alf]

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Seems to have attended the same business school as Craigy. In for a quick buck and leave a mess behind.

We wish you our very best, Mr Green.

They might even know each other a wee bit better than that!

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...wer/#more-1161

From Paul McConville

[CropleyWasGod]

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Meanwhile, who pays the bills?

As I read the deal, Green is putting up money to tide the company over during the summer. It has all but run out of cash, with no decent income for a while and wages back to the level they were at pre-administration. That injection will keep them going until Green walks off with Ibrox... I mean, completes his machinations.

[Lungo--Drom]

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Where did you get my T-Shirt???

[Jim44]

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As I read the deal, Green is putting up money to tide the company over during the summer. It has all but run out of cash, with no decent income for a while and wages back to the level they were at pre-administration. That injection will keep them going until Green walks off with Ibrox... I mean, completes his machinations.

Does this mean that whatever he pays for the club, say, £8.5m, will be shared out on a pence per pound basis to all creditors and then all other expenditure out of his and his consortium's pockets?

[bighairyfaeleith]

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Does this mean that whatever he pays for the club, say, £8.5m, will be shared out on a pence per pound basis to all creditors and then all other expenditure out of his and his consortium's pockets?

I think so, but ofcourse it depends if the creditors accept 8.5 million, it's a lot less than the 135 million they may be owe

[CropleyWasGod]

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Does this mean that whatever he pays for the club, say, £8.5m, will be shared out on a pence per pound basis to all creditors and then all other expenditure out of his and his consortium's pockets?

I am trying to find the link, but the way I read it (albeit early this morning) was that the £8.5m is what is being paid, full stop. He is putting in £x just now, and the balance will be available for the CVA.

I may be wrong.... but that seems like a pretty crap deal for the creditors.

[hibs0666]

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I think so, but ofcourse it depends if the creditors accept 8.5 million, it's a lot less than the 135 million they may be owe

More likely to be around 6 million once the Duff guys are paid off.