Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[shagpile]

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And now the Rangers players are in the mix (and not happy!!!) as well...... that CVA is looking less and less likely by the minute.... Liquidsor time!

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footbal...6908-23853179/

I thought they were dyed in the wool huns? Play for the mighty 'gers for nothing? No club in the world like renjurs.Tough **** & Ta Ta.

[poolman]

Sorry if already been posted but another great blog from Paul Mcconville

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...angers-appear/

[CropleyWasGod]

I know there is a lot of scepticism, on here and in the media, about the emergence of the "new" bidders.

It wouldn't surprise me that they do exist, TBH. The Miller bid finally put to bed the notion that a CVA was the only option. Now that D & P have shown that they will be open to Miller-type deals, others may be more interested.

One thing is for sure, though. With the cash running out, a prospective purchaser has the admins over a barrel, price-wise.

[matty_f]

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I know there is a lot of scepticism, on here and in the media, about the emergence of the "new" bidders.

It wouldn't surprise me that they do exist, TBH. The Miller bid finally put to bed the notion that a CVA was the only option. Now that D & P have shown that they will be open to Miller-type deals, others may be more interested.

One thing is for sure, though. With the cash running out, a prospective purchaser has the admins over a barrel, price-wise.

Miller's not skint, and I'd be surprised if there are many more that would have similar resources to Miller that haven't already made themselves known. Above that, the fact that Miller needed less than a weekend to decide that it was way worse than the administrators had made out, should be ringing alarm bells with any prospective bidders.

I think that we may well see someone else get a chance to look at the books, but I think the outcome will be the same - as soon as they see the true scale of the problems and how financially infeasible it is, they'll bolt as well.

[green glory]

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...l-rangers/1422

New Alex Thomson blog.

[CropleyWasGod]

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http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...l-rangers/1422

New Alex Thomson blog.

Interesting stuff.

But still with the CVA?

[Caversham Green]

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I know there is a lot of scepticism, on here and in the media, about the emergence of the "new" bidders.

It wouldn't surprise me that they do exist, TBH. The Miller bid finally put to bed the notion that a CVA was the only option. Now that D & P have shown that they will be open to Miller-type deals, others may be more interested.

One thing is for sure, though. With the cash running out, a prospective purchaser has the admins over a barrel, price-wise.

Without the prospect of a CVA surely it becomes a liquidation and the bidders are bidding for the assets only. They may wish to use those assets to start up a new club and they may wish to call that club Rangers, but the conceit that Newco=Oldco-tidyed-up-a-bit must be dead. It seems increasingly doubtful that the players contracts can be transferred across, so we're looking at the prospect of a brand new club, with new owners, new directors and new players playing in a stadium that was abandoned by a now-defunct old club. There should be no prospect of that club getting anywhere near the SPL.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Without the prospect of a CVA surely it becomes a liquidation and the bidders are bidding for the assets only. They may wish to use those assets to start up a new club and they may wish to call that club Rangers, but the conceit that Newco=Oldco-tidyed-up-a-bit must be dead. It seems increasingly doubtful that the players contracts can be transferred across, so we're looking at the prospect of a brand new club, with new owners, new directors and new players playing in a stadium that was abandoned by a now-defunct old club. There should be no prospect of that club getting anywhere near the SPL.

One would think so, but they still seem to be persisting with that notion, given Alex Thomson and the Sun's latest story.

[ScottB]

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Interesting stuff.

But still with the CVA?

It is bizarre that people keep assuming this to be a strategy, unless they have a truly vast amount of money to do it.

The issue is still that this needs to happen in a week. Can a group do due diligence, come to an agreement with the creditors, settle the football debts and be approved by the SFA / SPL in a week?

[Jim44]

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And now the Rangers players are in the mix (and not happy!!!) as well...... that CVA is looking less and less likely by the minute.... Liquidsor time!

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footbal...6908-23853179/

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I thought they were dyed in the wool huns? Play for the mighty 'gers for nothing? No club in the world like renjurs.Tough **** & Ta Ta.

Surprise,surprise, the players are coming to their senses. There's an empty ring to "Rangers don't do walking away." No Sally, but your players might prefer 'running away'.

[CropleyWasGod]

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It is bizarre that people keep assuming this to be a strategy, unless they have a truly vast amount of money to do it.

The issue is still that this needs to happen in a week. Can a group do due diligence, come to an agreement with the creditors, settle the football debts and be approved by the SFA / SPL in a week?

No.

David Hillier said on the radio this morning three weeks. An Insolvency Practitioner on the telly a few weeks back said five.

I think they probably have cash flow until the end of the month.

[shagpile]

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It is bizarre that people keep assuming this to be a strategy, unless they have a truly vast amount of money to do it.

The issue is still that this needs to happen in a week. Can a group do due diligence, come to an agreement with the creditors, settle the football debts and be approved by the SFA / SPL in a week?

Duff & Phelps seem to think anything is possible. Someone must be taking a long hard look at their part in this mess. It started off a mess when they were appointed, it has now become a fiasco.

[TornadoHibby]

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Miller's not skint, and I'd be surprised if there are many more that would have similar resources to Miller that haven't already made themselves known. Above that, the fact that Miller needed less than a weekend to decide that it was way worse than the administrators had made out, should be ringing alarm bells with any prospective bidders.

I think that we may well see someone else get a chance to look at the books, but I think the outcome will be the same - as soon as they see the true scale of the problems and how financially infeasible it is, they'll bolt as well.

Hypothetically speaking, the proposed structure for Miller's (now abortive) acquisition is not uncommon in non football club insolvencies and, I imagine, had it not been for the "football related" ramifications of liquidation of RFC, this would have been the way forward from the outset!

[grunt]

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No. David Hillier said on the radio this morning three weeks. An Insolvency Practitioner on the telly a few weeks back said five. I think they probably have cash flow until the end of the month.

That may be the case regarding cashflow and the admins ability to continue trading, but are there football deadlines which require the SPL share to be transferred to Newco before the end of the season? If RFC disappear during the close season, is that the end of their chances of getting Newco into the SPL?

[Caversham Green]

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One would think so, but they still seem to be persisting with that notion, given Alex Thomson and the Sun's latest story.

The bit I don't get there is - where have these people been since Valentine's Day? A wise man said ealier on this very thread 'If it seems too good to be true it usually is'. This story falls into that category IMO.

[StevieC]

"Since those savage cuts it is estimated that McCoist’s dressing room is owed in the region of £3million in lost wages. That means the club’s own first team is now the company’s biggest single football creditor"

Errr .. I think that Ticketus and HMRC may have something to say about that statement.

[down-the-slope]

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Without the prospect of a CVA surely it becomes a liquidation and the bidders are bidding for the assets only. They may wish to use those assets to start up a new club and they may wish to call that club Rangers, but the conceit that Newco=Oldco-tidyed-up-a-bit must be dead. It seems increasingly doubtful that the players contracts can be transferred across, so we're looking at the prospect of a brand new club, with new owners, new directors and new players playing in a stadium that was abandoned by a now-defunct old club. There should be no prospect of that club getting anywhere near the SPL.

In the real world...correct...in the fantasy parallel universe that is Scottish football

I'm surprised people are surprised that there are other bidders.....We are at the point where a club with book asset value of circa £110million is being hawked for less than the combined annual salaries of 10 of their players.....

With the gap between CVA 'value' and liquidation 'value' having reached the bottom...asset vultures are sure to be looking at the pickings....I have said this several times but the cash flow / business plan of a 'Rangers' playing in Europe and one not is massive and insurmountable...IF UEFA stick to banning them for 3 years (noises being that they will treat what ever the resultant club is as if liquidated...as any CVA would not be real world) then they need either massive 3 year deficit funding.....or to be radically pruned to the kind of budget the rest of SPL (barring Celtic) are used to.....this would mean even if in SPL the big draw of OF could be a sweepstake of how many Celtic can put past them...not the 'spectical' that TV want....

Any buyer with nouse (and a tin helmet) would see that Div 3 and working up would be better as teh cost cutting would be easier to hide down there...can you imagine the Bears in the SPL un able to compete (very funny if Gers didnt make top 6.....no 4 OF games then...cue another change to rules / reconstruction).......

The next big moment will be the players walking / being let go as new owners can't afford to carry their cost

[ehf]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18002865

Supporters chief Andy Kerr has rejected suggestions that fan opposition is to blame for Bill Miller's decision to withdraw his takeover bid for Rangers.

The American trucking tycoon had cited anti-Miller banners as one of the reasons for his decision.

But Supporters' Assembly president Kerr said: "We are talking a few people here and it is disappointing when people are effectively pre-judging the guy.

Who are these few people? In the interests of transparency and accountability they must be publicly identified.

[jonty]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-18002284

Administrators at Rangers have resumed their search for a buyer for the club
after the US businessman who was the preferred bidder announced his withdrawal.


One of Bill Miller's advisors - Jon Pritchett - told the BBC's Newsnight
Scotland programme there were three main factors influencing his decision.

[CropleyWasGod]

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In the real world...correct...in the fantasy parallel universe that is Scottish football

I'm surprised people are surprised that there are other bidders.....We are at the point where a club with book asset value of circa £110million is being hawked for less than the combined annual salaries of 10 of their players.....

With the gap between CVA 'value' and liquidation 'value' having reached the bottom...asset vultures are sure to be looking at the pickings....I have said this several times but the cash flow / business plan of a 'Rangers' playing in Europe and one not is massive and insurmountable...IF UEFA stick to banning them for 3 years (noises being that they will treat what ever the resultant club is as if liquidated...as any CVA would not be real world) then they need either massive 3 year deficit funding.....or to be radically pruned to the kind of budget the rest of SPL (barring Celtic) are used to.....this would mean even if in SPL the big draw of OF could be a sweepstake of how many Celtic can put past them...not the 'spectical' that TV want....

Any buyer with nouse (and a tin helmet) would see that Div 3 and working up would be better as teh cost cutting would be easier to hide down there...can you imagine the Bears in the SPL un able to compete (very funny if Gers didnt make top 6.....no 4 OF games then...cue another change to rules / reconstruction).......

The next big moment will be the players walking / being let go as new owners can't afford to carry their cost

One wonders if the so-called new bidders are in fact vultures getting in early.

[CropleyWasGod]

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-18002284

I watched that interview.

The guy (Miller's associate) came across as very knowledgable about fitba,the culture and the practicalities RFC are facing.

[jgl07]

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Duff & Phelps seem to think anything is possible. Someone must be taking a long hard look at their part in this mess. It started off a mess when they were appointed, it has now become a fiasco.

The fundamental problem is that Rangers in their current form are economically unviable. That is how they got into this situation in the first place.

They see themselves as a top European team but are competing with club who have far greater spending power. SPL TV revenue will not cut it in comparison with the big-five European Leagues or even in comparison to the Dutch League.

They have a large stadium and a large fanbase. But their support is very fickle and and will melt away if Rangers are performing to their expectations.

Celtic do appear to be viable but have a bigger stadium and a bigger fanbase than Rangers. They sailed close to the wind themselves in the 1990s but got the infrastructure in place in the times of plenty and seem to be well run from a financial viewpoint. This may be a legacy of the Fergus McCann era. I don't see a Fergus McCann coming to the rescue of Rangers.

It is telling that the only bid from Scotland do date has been from the Blue Knights. They are there through emotion rather than financial acumen. The bids from outside have probably been lodged in ignorance thinking that a team with a 50,000 capacity stadium with an average attendance of over 45,000 must be a money making machine. As soon as the likes of Miller and Ng get to look closely at the finances they run a mile.

Maybe Duff and Phelps were under the same misapprehension and that has coloured their actions?

[Just Alf]

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Sorry if already been posted but another great blog from Paul Mcconville

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...angers-appear/

Always seems a source of the most realistic view in all this :-)

"There comes a point where there is very little more that can be said, as the absurdity of the situation beats any commentary that can be offered. We are at that point now.

Maybe there is every opportunity for the chosen bidder to finish things by the end of the season. There is every opportunity for me to win gold in the Olympic 100m this year. However, whilst the opportunity is there, the reality is well nigh impossible.

In the same way, how is a bidder going to be accepted, do due diligence and get SPL and SFA approval, all in three days?

I am sure that D&P have a clever plan. They must have because otherwise it would just look as if they were floundering about in the dark, with no idea from one day to the next what was happening"

[Hibs Class]

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"Since those savage cuts it is estimated that McCoist’s dressing room is owed in the region of £3million in lost wages. That means the club’s own first team is now the company’s biggest single football creditor"

Errr .. I think that Ticketus and HMRC may have something to say about that statement.

I thought the players had agreed to wage cuts rather than wage deferrals? If they are still earning their pre-administration pay and have, for example, rights to a % of unpaid wages under a CVA then that would seem like more negligence by D&P as they would have only manipulated cash flow rather than taking cost out of the business.

[ScottB]

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No.

David Hillier said on the radio this morning three weeks. An Insolvency Practitioner on the telly a few weeks back said five.

I think they probably have cash flow until the end of the month.

But surely that we now approach the summer, they have zero income, their outgoings are about to shoot up, will there not be pressure from the courts to pull the plug after this week?

[down-the-slope]

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One wonders if the so-called new bidders are in fact vultures getting in early.

Thats my take...perched in the highest nearest tree ready to swoop when the carcass becomes available.


Also the closer to the end game we are the more the media / fans will accept the slashing cuts required

[CropleyWasGod]

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But surely that we now approach the summer, they have zero income, their outgoings are about to shoot up, will there not be pressure from the courts to pull the plug after this week?

Their strategy at the beginning was to cut costs to enable them to trade until "the end of the season". I am guessing that, in their minds, they meant the end of May.

(According to an earlier poster, they are due £1m (?) from Everton for Jelavic at the end of the season which may buy them more time, or may be nabbed by UEFA, or may pay D&P's hotel tab. )

[speedy_gonzales]

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"Since those savage cuts it is estimated that McCoist’s dressing room is owed in the region of £3million in lost wages. That means the club’s own first team is now the company’s biggest single football creditor"

Errr .. I think that Ticketus and HMRC may have something to say about that statement.

I think they mean football as in their business, such as Dundee Utd or Hearts, football creditors, not loan sharks like Ticketus or Government agencies such as HMRC.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I thought the players had agreed to wage cuts rather than wage deferrals? If they are still earning their pre-administration pay and have, for example, rights to a % of unpaid wages under a CVA then that would seem like more negligence by D&P as they would have only manipulated cash flow rather than taking cost out of the business.

I think each player did their own negotiations, and there wasn't uniformity in what each agreed.

It was certainly sold in the media, though, as a wage-cut.

Even if it was actually a deferral, I am not sure I agree about the "negligence" charge. The whole point of the exercise was to buy time, and it was successful in that.

[down-the-slope]

One bit i'm less clear on is Ticketus - surely they will either want their cash back...or to goto court for the right to sell the seats as agreed for coming seasons. Its crucial not only to them but all the clubs that regularly use his type of finance from them and others that this kind of contract is clarified by law...otherwise who will fund this arrangement in future if they are regarded as 'ordinary' creditors...and how will clubs survive the 2/3 months prior to ST's being sold without it