Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[lapsedhibee]

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http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...-football/1392

Fab.

Has McCoist demanded to know the identity of the author yet?

[hibsbollah]

I wouldnt like to be a postie on Yorkston's round for the next few weeks.

[Jim44]

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According to Beeb radio / S Thompson D Utd chairman - it is the decision of the SPL board - so the clubs may not even get / have to vote on this. That is the current rules of the SPL - there is nothing written down that the clubs get to vote on this - but as we know rules can be changed.

I think they want all clubs involved because the board members are frightened of reprisals from Rangers supporters. What a sad state of affairs.

[grunt]

Another interesting blog update by Albion Rovers fan McConville re the TBK view of things

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...t-post-by-den/

[Liberal Hibby]

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Another interesting blog update by Celtc fan McConville re the TBK view of things

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...t-post-by-den/

McConville is an Albion Rovers fan.

[DH1875]

Why has no one within a "high position" within Scottish football or media come out and really questioned why we need Rangers. I just don't get the argument for keeping them. Look at it from a Hibs point of view, we've had one game against them this season (at ER) so what's that £98k in ticket sales on their side. How much does it cost to police the game? Deduct the extra amount compared to a normal game from the £98k. Even IF you add in hospitality and the likes I seriously doubt they bring us in more than £100k a game. Flip that round and lets say we lose 1k season ticket holders because their back in (probably more). That's a loss of of about £405,000 a season before you even start thinking about what they spend in the stadium. That's at least a difference of £300k. Add in we would have a better chance of winning trophies and making Europe and the extra revenue that brings in, I don't get it. ESPN have already said they will continue to screen the games, which leaves SKY. Have they ever come out and said there would be NO contract? They might not offer the full amount, but then Rangers get a massive chunk of it as it stands.
Rod has to vote them out. Keeping them in the SPL could kill us more than kicking them out.

[grunt]

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McConville is an Albion Rovers fan.

Sorry, my mistake

[EuanH78]

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Why has no one within a "high position" within Scottish football or media come out and really questioned why we need Rangers. I just don't get the argument for keeping them. Look at it from a Hibs point of view, we've had one game against them this season (at ER) so what's that £98k in ticket sales on their side. How much does it cost to police the game? Deduct the extra amount compared to a normal game from the £98k. Even IF you add in hospitality and the likes I seriously doubt they bring us in more than £100k a game. Flip that round and lets say we lose 1k season ticket holders because their back in (probably more). That's a loss of of about £405,000 a season before you even start thinking about what they spend in the stadium. That's at least a difference of £300k. Add in we would have a better chance of winning trophies and making Europe and the extra revenue that brings in, I don't get it. ESPN have already said they will continue to screen the games, which leaves SKY. Have they ever come out and said there would be NO contract? They might not offer the full amount, but then Rangers get a massive chunk of it as it stands.
Rod has to vote them out. Keeping them in the SPL could kill us more than kicking them out.

Said this a few posts back, RP isnt as daft as some people on here seem to think. I do not expect Hibs will vote for newco Rangers back in SPL.

[jgl07]

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Why has no one within a "high position" within Scottish football or media come out and really questioned why we need Rangers. I just don't get the argument for keeping them. Look at it from a Hibs point of view, we've had one game against them this season (at ER) so what's that £98k in ticket sales on their side. How much does it cost to police the game? Deduct the extra amount compared to a normal game from the £98k. Even IF you add in hospitality and the likes I seriously doubt they bring us in more than £100k a game. Flip that round and lets say we lose 1k season ticket holders because their back in (probably more). That's a loss of of about £405,000 a season before you even start thinking about what they spend in the stadium. That's at least a difference of £300k. Add in we would have a better chance of winning trophies and making Europe and the extra revenue that brings in, I don't get it. ESPN have already said they will continue to screen the games, which leaves SKY. Have they ever come out and said there would be NO contract? They might not offer the full amount, but then Rangers get a massive chunk of it as it stands.
Rod has to vote them out. Keeping them in the SPL could kill us more than kicking them out.

Al Jazeera are reputedly trying to break into the sports TV business and could be a replacement for Sky.

You never know a show of resolve from the SPL could reap benefits in terms of attendances.

Then Celtic could be outvoted to even up the cash allocation to claw some of the losses back.

I suspect that the clubs will be worse off than they are this season. However they will be in a better position than they will be if Rangers are waved back in.

There will be an organized boycott that will lose the SPL a large number of supporters and there will also be a drifting away of support through apathy that may cost even more.

[Jim44]

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Fab.

Has McCoist demanded to know the identity of the author yet?

He probably spoke to him at Ibrox on Friday when he destroyed Paul Clark in the interview after the 'successful bid' announcement.

[Ozyhibby]

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Said this a few posts back, RP isnt as daft as some people on here seem to think. I do not expect Hibs will vote for newco Rangers back in SPL.

More than anything else from this sorry situation I hope you are correct.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Al Jazeera are only interested in covering Dundee Utd games!

[gramskiwood]

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Al Jazeera are only interested in covering Dundee Utd games!

[FitbaFolkKen]

Sorry if posted elsewhere....

"The clubs are mindful of a sporting integrity aspect but the commercial benefits may outweigh that." Killie Chairman Michael Johnston.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17967968

Totally corrupt statement if ever I have seen one.I haven't been to wound up about this scenario but reading this really got my goat.

He might as well have said my vote can be bought, our game is spiralling to it's death I fear.

[Saorsa]

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Sorry if posted elsewhere....

"The clubs are mindful of a sporting integrity aspect but the commercial benefits may outweigh that." Killie Chairman Michael Johnston.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17967968

Totally corrupt statement if ever I have seen one.I haven't been to wound up about this scenario but reading this really got my goat.

He might as well have said my vote can be bought, our game is spiralling to it's death I fear.

Bend over Michael, dinnae forget your vaseline

Michael Johnston >>>

[Caversham Green]

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http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...-football/1392

Another excellent piece fron Alex Thomson, but for most of it he's only stating the blindingly obvious. Why can't Doncaster et al see it.

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Another interesting blog update by Albion Rovers fan McConville re the TBK view of things

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...t-post-by-den/

An interesting comment from D&P in there:

HMRC and Ticketus are both creditors of the company and the creditors have voted in favour of the proposals which enable us to do this deal.

First, he carefully avoids saying that HMRC and Ticketus have individually voted in favour, all he says is that the creditors as a body have voted in favour.
Second, as far as I'm aware all that the creditors have voted for is to allow D&P to carry out negotiations without referring back to the creditors each time. That's pretty much a formality unless they vote to remove the administrators and I doubt if it needed the 75% value majority.

Not quite a lie, but not quite the truth - that's the way things are going in this depressing story.

[Jim44]

Stephen Thomson says it's a lose-lose situation. Well mate, what is the greater loss? The level of working capital which, OK, will require some rationalisation of their business plans which would eventially flatten out etc. Or to lose the body, heart and soul of their clubs. No brainer in my opinion.

[BarneyK]

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Stephen Thomson says it's a lose-lose situation. Well mate, what is the greater loss? The level of working capital which, OK, will require some rationalisation of their business plans which would eventially flatten out etc. Or to lose the body, heart and soul of their clubs. No brainer in my opinion.

Although I agree with this, I can see the predicament the custodians are in. If they were starting from fresh then fair enough. As it is though, they have players on contracts who require paying as per those contracts, and those contracts were agreed with the money coming in as it currently does. If there is suddenly a £600k deficit, how do they manage that?

A way has to be found. This is too important to just let it slide.

[bingo70]

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Although I agree with this, I can see the predicament the custodians are in. If they were starting from fresh then fair enough. As it is though, they have players on contracts who require paying as per those contracts, and those contracts were agreed with the money coming in as it currently does. If there is suddenly a £600k deficit, how do they manage that?

A way has to be found. This is too important to just let it slide.

With the exception of Gretna who were never a real club anyway clubs that get relegated always seem to survive so everyone would find a way of getting bye, players would take wage cuts or be released and more young players would get a chance.

I think a bigger predicament for the people making the decisions is the likelyhood of death threats etc on them from the moron rangers fans, it's something they're bound to be wary of.

[BarneyK]

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With the exception of Gretna who were never a real club anyway clubs that get relegated always seem to survive so everyone would find a way of getting bye, players would take wage cuts or be released and more young players would get a chance.

I think a bigger predicament for the people making the decisions is the likelyhood of death threats etc on them from the moron rangers fans, it's something they're bound to be wary of.

Very good point. To be honest, I don't think Hibs would be so badly affected.

[Onion]

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Although I agree with this, I can see the predicament the custodians are in. If they were starting from fresh then fair enough. As it is though, they have players on contracts who require paying as per those contracts, and those contracts were agreed with the money coming in as it currently does. If there is suddenly a £600k deficit, how do they manage that?

A way has to be found. This is too important to just let it slide.

The simple way to defuse the whole situation is for Rangers to man-up and take their punishment. McCoist et al have already acknowledged that the "right thing to so" is for the Huns to start again in the 3rd Div - for the sake of sport and fair play. The fact that they are insisting on a much lesser punishment shows the calibre of the man and the Huns as a species. Self interest and preservation - whether it is deserved or not- is all that matters to them.

If the Huns (who basically are bankrupt anyway) went to that meeting and said, we acknowledge the problems we've caused to ourselves, HMRC, other clubs and creditors etc and accept that any NewCo needs to start again - stick us in the 3rd Div, then there is no decision for the SPL/SFA or other clubs. They would just have to get on and re-cut their business plans, cut back their operations and get on with it.

This is all about the Huns, caused by the Huns and they will kill the sport - unless THEY do what's right.

[BarneyK]

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The simple way to defuse the whole situation is for Rangers to man-up and take their punishment. McCoist et al have already acknowledged that the "right thing to so" is for the Huns to start again in the 3rd Div - for the sake of sport and fair play. The fact that they are insisting on a much lesser punishment shows the calibre of the man and the Huns as a species. Self interest and preservation - whether it is deserved or not- is all that matters to them.

If the Huns (who basically are bankrupt anyway) went to that meeting and said, we acknowledge the problems we've caused to ourselves, HMRC, other clubs and creditors etc and accept that any NewCo needs to start again - stick us in the 3rd Div, then there is no decision for the SPL/SFA or other clubs. They would just have to get on and re-cut their business plans, cut back their operations and get on with it.

This is all about the Huns, caused by the Huns and they will kill the sport - unless THEY do what's right.

True, but it will have an effect on the other clubs in Scotland. Let's not be so blind as to refuse that plain fact. I'm not saying make our decision based on that, but acknowledge it at least. It could be the difference between us signing McPake and not signing McPake. Personally, I would be more comfortable playing 11 kids for a few seasons than compromising the integrity of the game, but there is another side. The game would be hard to stomach if they are allowed to stay in the SPL, that's for sure.

[Onion]

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With the exception of Gretna who were never a real club anyway clubs that get relegated always seem to survive so everyone would find a way of getting bye, players would take wage cuts or be released and more young players would get a chance.

I think a bigger predicament for the people making the decisions is the likelyhood of death threats etc on them from the moron rangers fans, it's something they're bound to be wary of.

This has always been an issue with the OF and one of the main reasons referees have favoured them over the years in key decisions, and the SFA have done NOTHING about bigotry/sectarianism. This decision however is on another level altogether, and exactly why UEFA need to step in and sort them out.

Do you think UEFA would allow NewCo straight into the SPL, take 5 months to investigate Whyte, or worry about the Huns threats ? No chance.

[James70]

Can't help but wonder what the late Ernie Walker, Jim Farry and Willie Allan would have made of this whole debacle and how they would have handled it.

[PatHead]

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With the exception of Gretna who were never a real club anyway clubs that get relegated always seem to survive so everyone would find a way of getting bye, players would take wage cuts or be released and more young players would get a chance.

I think a bigger predicament for the people making the decisions is the likelyhood of death threats etc on them from the moron rangers fans, it's something they're bound to be wary of.

I don't. I think it is pure unadulterated greed on behalf of the Directors.

Spoke to a director of a SPL club this morning re Steven Thompson's "dilemma" which seemingly is causing him a lot of heart searching. One of the fears is that with any potential loss of income the club could really struggle to survive as all contracts are worked out on budgets. The Bank Managers don't want to hear about morals when it comes to paying bills over the short term. Basically don't have sympathy with that argument as I was always taught to stand up for your beliefs. Hibs have done it for years and look at the grief they have had on this message board apart from in the wider world. Why should they continue to be penalised for behaving. Imagine if we were to suffer the ultimate penalty and get relegated this season for trying to budget. Where is the justice in that?

At this moment in time I feel like a guy who has found out his girlfriend has cheated on him again. Do you forgive or finally make the right decision and tell her to get tae? Do you still speak to friends who knew all along what was going on or do you shut them out your life as well because basically you don't need friends like that. You know eventually you will find something to replace the void so are you big enough to make the right decision.

Without being too dramatic tonight could be my last time inside Easter Road and that is a strange feeling.

[marinello59]

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This has always been an issue with the OF and one of the main reasons referees have favoured them over the years in key decisions, and the SFA have done NOTHING about bigotry/sectarianism. This decision however is on another level altogether, and exactly why UEFA need to step in and sort them out.

Do you think UEFA would allow NewCo straight into the SPL, take 5 months to investigate Whyte, or worry about the Huns threats ? No chance.

I don't see how UEFA could get involved. The SPL would not be bending or breaking any rules as the rules to deal with this situation satisfactorily don't currently exist.

[PatHead]

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Can't help but wonder what the late Ernie Walker, Jim Farry and Willie Allan would have made of this whole debacle and how they would have handled it.

They were all further up Rangers @rse than the current lot. At least the current bunch admit they are siding with Rangers. Previous ones did all their talking in the lodge don't let time disguise that.

[cad]

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Stephen Thomson says it's a lose-lose situation. Well mate, what is the greater loss? The level of working capital which, OK, will require some rationalisation of their business plans which would eventually flatten out etc. Or to lose the body, heart and soul of their clubs. No brainer in my opinion.

Its a numbers game now Jim, the guarantee of the Hun hordes ,or what walks away in the fall out .
This will test Rod big time will he play safe with what he knows or not .

[PatHead]

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I don't see how UEFA could get involved. The SPL would not be bending or breaking any rules as the rules to deal with this situation satisfactorily don't currently exist.

Surely bringing the game into disrepute by breaking financial fair play guidelines (or rules if they have reached that stage) Ban all Scottish clubs from Europe and hit them where it hurts.

[TheEastTerrace]

Interesting post from Paul McConville this morning - 'unpalatable' read indeed!

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...to-make-money/

Is the SPL a sporting body or a commercial business?