Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[ancienthibby]

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Nobody?

Mr HibeeMG,

You have answered your own question!

If there are no other bidders, then the value is determined by that best bid.

There has been a huge amount of time for bidders to come out of the woodwork.

If they don't (as has been the case) then the market value has been established.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Nobody?

About 100 pages ago the marketability of the properties was discussed . Ibrox is partly listed and Murray Park has restrictions on its use.

[HibeeMG]

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Mr HibeeMG,

You have answered your own question!

If there are no other bidders, then the value is determined by that best bid.

There has been a huge amount of time for bidders to come out of the woodwork.

If they don't (as has been the case) then the market value has been established.

The assets haven't been put up for sale though. If they had been then the market value would be established.

Bidders have only been bidding for the club not the assets. Interested parties haven't had a chance to bid on the assets as they didn't know they were up for sale!

[grunt]

Can the creditors block this sale to Miller?

[ancienthibby]

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Nobody?

To add to what I said before, Murray Park does not have the value you might think, as has been said a number of times before on this thread!

The land on which on which it has been built does not have planning permission for houses, so therefore it's best suited for a footie club or a fairground!!

[CropleyWasGod]

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In the BBC report 'portrait' of Miller, they failed to mention the dodgy and IIRC possibly illegal ( allegedly) episode with an American sports institution about 8 years ago ( I'm sure there's a link to the story not far back on this thread).

Yeah I heard the same on the radio. . Unfit and improper ?

[HibeeMG]

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About 100 pages ago the marketability of the properties was discussed . Ibrox is partly listed and Murray Park has restrictions on its use.

I may have missed that as I'm sure I've slept since!

At the time though, the marketability of the assets wasn't as important as it is now. As it is, the 'sale' of these assets to the NewCo is the only cash that creditors will see through a CVA. Wouldn't it be prudent to maximise this cash-pot by putting the assets on the open market?

Like I said earlier, if the NewCo bid is the highest bidder then so be it. If, however, competition from supermarket chains or property developers push up the market value then that is better for the creditors (you and me included).

[HibeeMG]

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To add to what I said before, Murray Park does not have the value you might think, as has been said a number of times before on this thread!

The land on which on which it has been built does not have planning permission for houses, so therefore it's best suited for a footie club or a fairground!!

So, it is just assumed that nobody would want to put a bid in for that land then?

[blindsummit]

I am starting to feel a wee bit better after seeing some of the statements coming out on rangerstaxcase and from Alex Thomson. Perhaps HMRC are still going to be the saviours of scottish football after all....

[ScottB]

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alex thomson‏@alextomo

So, he (the only normal media source with listening to on this) seems to be suggesting this is already dead in the water...

If we assume that happens, Duff & Dumbass have already said liquidation is worth more than the BK bid. Would we see Rangers liquidated with no newco standing by to pick at the carcass?

[Matty_Jack04]

@alextomo: HMRC (taxman) on Rangers - we have had no involvement at all in this takeover to date

There's maybe a lot of hot air being blown here but if this happens I'm done with it the SPL can rot in its own **** as far as I'm concerned

[ancienthibby]

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So, it is just assumed that nobody would want to put a bid in for that land then?

Not assumed.

I have not seen a bus queue outside Govan full of bidders for Murray Park or anywhere else.

They have had more than eight weeks to show their faces.

They are still posted missing.

[Twa Cairpets]

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alex thomson‏@alextomo

More from Tomo:

alex thomson ‏ @alextomo
Am told Bill Miller has no passport and has never seen a soccerball game, let alone one played by the Glasgow of Rangers

alex thomson ‏ @alextomo
... suffice to say nobody in Scottish football should bet a Tennessee cent on this happening as planned

alex thomson ‏ @alextomo
HMRC (taxman) on Rangers - we have had no involvement at all in this takeover to date...
...That was direct quote from HMRC cleared via their lead officer on Rangers

D+P pretty much shown to have been lying through their teeth then.

[Matty_Jack04]

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So, he (the only normal media source with listening to on this) seems to be suggesting this is already dead in the water...

If we assume that happens, Duff & Dumbass have already said liquidation is worth more than the BK bid. Would we see Rangers liquidated with no newco standing by to pick at the carcass?

BK would snap or attempt to snap up the oldco license and begin from div 3? debt free punishment free but with no history and an auction style race for stadium and training ground? not a professional opinion just a guess

[HibeeMG]

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Not assumed.

I have not seen a bus queue outside Govan full of bidders for Murray Park or anywhere else.

They have had more than eight weeks to show their faces.

They are still posted missing.

The land/properties haven't been up for sale though. As soon as they are, you might see some showing their faces. Just the possibility that there may be competition for these assets should be enough to put them on public sale.

[down-the-slope]

This (Bill Miller) wont happen...

Way too many hurdles - he is just looking for assets at a knock down...HMRC won't dance to his tune..

IF he were to get along the road - buying assets - do Rangers stupid fans not realise that there is no chance of 'cleaning up' Old Co.....and he would just give it ....sorry I tried ...not my fault....others wouldn't play....

Meanwhile NewCo is playing and generating money for his £11m investment and making a nice return thank you very much (thanks to an easy passage back into SPL)....Bang goes history etc etc....no skin of his nose.

I do wonder whether UEFA will view this as liquidation by back door and exclude for 3 years anyway...

As I said never going to happen - but why would they (fans) think there was any pure motive.....

[ancienthibby]

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The land/properties haven't been up for sale though. As soon as they are, you might see some showing their faces. Just the possibility that there may be competition for these assets should be enough to put them on public sale.

If I properly understand today's developments re Bill Millar, then the assets you refer to will not be available for sale, as they will have already been sold to one Wild Bill M!!

In all the warm words of WBM re Rangers, not a single word about the huge number of creditors being stuffed!.

(Then, of course, there's the vast number of redundancies necessary to meet his programme of fiscal prudence!!)

[Dashing Bob S]

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About 100 pages ago the marketability of the properties was discussed . Ibrox is partly listed and Murray Park has restrictions on its use.

Highbury Stadium had a similar designation, but it is now flats. The retention of the older part of the stadium as the entrance to the new housing development proved popular with buyers. Islington is obviously a million miles away from Govan in terms of marketability. However, the Govan area now has BBC and several independent film production and other blue-chip creative companies based in the town hall and around. One of the obstacles to the continued gentrification of the area, however, is the presence of the football club. That obstacle would be removed if the club no longer played there.

I would be very surprised if several property development companies weren't looking at Ibrox Stadium with interest, and I've no doubt that some of them would be in a position to put in a better offer for those particular assets that Millers shabby newco.

There is also the HMRC to consider. They haven't expressed any view on those pathetic shenanigans yet, but I've a feeling they will, and they will be far less inclined to roll over than the Scottish governmental and footballing authorities.

[greenginger]

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The land/properties haven't been up for sale though. As soon as they are, you might see some showing their faces. Just the possibility that there may be competition for these assets should be enough to put them on public sale.

What does scrap steel fetch per tonne just now ? There must be a good few hundred tonnes of the stuff in the Ibrox stands. Murray Metals could get in a bidding war with Daltons and force the price up for the creditors.

See Duff and Duffer, this administration business is easy if you act on behalf of the creditors rather than your own glory.

[ScottB]

Can you imagine the reaction to buying Ibrox or Murray Park? The morons would probably start suicide bombing!

[Jim44]

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In the BBC report 'portrait' of Miller, they failed to mention the dodgy and IIRC possibly illegal ( allegedly) episode with an American sports institution about 8 years ago ( I'm sure there's a link to the story not far back on this thread).

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Yeah I heard the same on the radio. . Unfit and improper ?

And here it is. http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte...1/daily36.html Would this not come to light during due diligence?

PS link not working will try again

[Jim44]

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And here it is. http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte...1/daily36.html Would this not come to light during due diligence?

PS link not working will try again

Hope this works http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte...1/daily36.html

[TheEastTerrace]

Having just scrolled the rangerstaxcase and Alex Thomson twitter accounts, I feel slightly more reassured that Wild Bill won't get this plan through. Thomo's interview with Paul Clark made my blood boil; sporting integrity? Ach who cares as long as the football club is saved.

However, my immediate concern is Neil Doncaster. Appears this guy wants Rangers admonished and playing in the SPL no matter what. This is where we need to put pressure on the football authorities. After listening to him interviewed on sportsound this week, I'm pretty sure he would be delighted if Wild Bill's plan got through, albeit with a token slap on the wrist. This incompetent rode into the country declaring how he would change the game for the better of everyone who wanted to follow football in Scotland and encourage new groups of supporters to attend. Well, his true colours have been pinned to the mast for everyone to see now.

[Jim44]

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Having just scrolled the rangerstaxcase and Alex Thomson twitter accounts, I feel slightly more reassured that Wild Bill won't get this plan through. Thomo's interview with Paul Clark made my blood boil; sporting integrity? Ach who cares as long as the football club is saved.

However, my immediate concern is Neil Doncaster. Appears this guy wants Rangers admonished and playing in the SPL no matter what. This is where we need to put pressure on the football authorities. After listening to him interviewed on sportsound this week, I'm pretty sure he would be delighted if Wild Bill's plan got through, albeit with a token slap on the wrist. This incompetent rode into the country declaring how he would change the game for the better of everyone who wanted to follow football in Scotland and encourage new groups of supporters to attend. Well, his true colours have been pinned to the mast for everyone to see now.

His true colours have been quite clear for some time and the problem IMHO is not Doncaster but the other sheep in the SPL who seem unwilling to do anything about his 'would-be steamrollering' approach. These same sheep however also have their own greedy, self-interested motives which don't include justice, fairness and sporting integrity.

[TheEastTerrace]

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His true colours have been quite clear for some time and the problem IMHO is not Doncaster but the other sheep in the SPL who seem unwilling to do anything about his 'would-be steamrollering' approach. These same sheep however also have their own greedy, self-interested motives which don't include justice, fairness and sporting integrity.

Wholeheartedly agree. The clubs cannot self-police themselves (as the SPL), and be trusted to keep the good of the game as paramount above their shareholder/owners' self interest. The sooner we adopt supporters' trusts or fan representation groups into positions of influence the better ala German model.

Tuesday was the first time I'd really heard Doncaster speak on the issue of RFC administration since the SPL went into hiding to start investigating the dual contracts and concoct these financial fair play proposals. It just rankled with me more than in previous times.

[grunt]

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Thompson interviews Paul Clark

http://www.channel4.com/news/miller-...eferred-bidder

snake !.

I certainly recommend that those interested in this topic should listen to Thomson's interview of the administrator Paul Clark.
Again he refers to monies coming to the oldco from litigation, so he is again hyping up the court case gainst Collyer Bristow.

Plus he implies that there may be additional court proceedings relating "possibly prior to the takeover". Does he mean SDM?

"No one should be under any illusion that the tax man will be paid in full [well I never!] but Miller's offer represents the best solution."

Dodges the questions about sporting integrity - effectively, "not my job".

"Give and take in discussions with the footballing authorities" - I wonder what the SPL took from the discussions.

I do feel rather dirty having watched that.

[jdships]

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The only disturbing thing is this alleged assurance that Rangers will stay in the SPL no matter what. Most likely it was Neil Doncaster who gave that assurance. Under what authority did he give it?

That's the question I would like answered !
If this is true it adds up to a total " whitewash" and the demise of justice, fairness and integrity in Scottish football.
It is almost a cheats charter !
The big question still is what part are HMR&C going to play in the final chapter ?
As I have posted before a friend is a senior official in that organisation , and while he refuses point blank to discuss RFC debt , he makes the point that after the Harry Redknapp/Portsmouth fiasco HMR&C will not be " caught out a second time " !!!
Do UEFA have any part to play in what " punishment" is dealt out to RFC ?
As for Mr Miller . Is he the true " White Knight in Shining Armour " ? If what we read tonight is correct his sporting business track record is somewhat dodgy to say the least.
There is also the problem with loss of European football revenue to take into consideration. I understand a sizeable figure was added to the
" estimated income" every season based on participation in group stages .

I for one think there is a lot more to happen /come out of this before season 2012/13 K.O

[jonty]

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Rangers administrators in court tomorrow
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...re-lord-hodge/

for a 1 hr session.

Anyone have any idea what this is about?
(it was posted 3 pages ago but Matty has been asking questions since )

[Jim44]

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I certainly recommend that those interested in this topic should listen to Thomson's interview of the administrator Paul Clark.
Again he refers to monies coming to the oldco from litigation, so he is again hyping up the court case gainst Collyer Bristow.

Plus he implies that there may be additional court proceedings relating "possibly prior to the takeover". Does he mean SDM?

"No one should be under any illusion that the tax man will be paid in full [well I never!] but Miller's offer represents the best solution."

Dodges the questions about sporting integrity - effectively, "not my job".

"Give and take in discussions with the footballing authorities" - I wonder what the SPL took from the discussions.

I do feel rather dirty having watched that.

Would you buy a second hand car from Paul Clark? He comes across as being as dodgy as any of the other Govan charlatans.

[Brando7]

RIR Scottish Football

So let me ask this if there is a newco created, all assets moved over (players, murray park & ibrox) and are alloed to play next season in SPL that 3 years expulsion from europe ? yes? old co with debts & history do nothing until a CVA is agreed then if agreed BM moves old & new together to keep rangers history BUT would it not be the case of old joining new rather that new joining old, would they not require SPL apporoval to allow an old football club to keep it history mid season?

Assets are apparantly valued at £104 million + market value but BM can buy it all for £11million how that a good deal for the creditors? I hope they all reject a CVA n demand a fire sale of assets that bound to rake in more than £11 million?????