Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

**Kaiser1962** · 30-04-2012 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

They act on behalf of the creditors, and are charged to get the best return possible for them. They effectively take the assets over, and have almost complete control over them.

And they can sell them to a Newco if they see fit to do so without consulting anybody?

***CropleyWasGod*** · 30-04-2012 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by Kaiser1962

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

And they can sell them to a Newco if they see fit to do so without consulting anybody?

Yup.... but, like I say, if they try to sell them at stupid money, any creditor can petition the Court to have the transaction reversed. It would then be up to the liquidator to show that the transaction was at a fair value.

A liquidator, like an administrator, is independent of the company. Any suggestion of collusion or corruption would not be good for their reputation.

**Kaiser1962** · 30-04-2012 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by jgl07

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

So you think that HMRC, Ticketus, et al will sit quietly and watch the Oldco transfer the ownership of Ibrox and Murray Park to a Newco for peanuts?

I dont think they will, no. But if the administrators can justify the deal as the "best available" then I am not sure what any creditors can do about it tbh. I am sure the previous directors may face a rough ride over their inflated valuation of the properties owned by the football club but that is not the administrators immediate problem.

***CentreLine*** · 30-04-2012 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It may be a little boring for you but I can assure you I'm not alone. I can just about handle the fact that the quality of football in the SPL is inferior to what's available elsewhere but I won't watch a rigged game.
My spend on Hibs each year is considerable(2 sons) but if Hibs decide they can do without my money in favour of filling the away end twice a season then that is up to Hibs.
It will be loss for me not bringing the boys to Easter road but it is the principle that is the most important thing.

**~~MSK~~** · 30-04-2012 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by johnbc70

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Is he not saying IF newco are back in the SPL, if they trade their way out of admin and agree a CVA then fair enough they stay in the SPL and I have no problem with that. All if and buts at the moment but people are just expressing their views on the current situation which as every day passes looks more and more like liquidation which will mean a newco will either be back in the SPL or not.

I know what he is saying John but the hysteria on here is pretty astounding ..never stepping foot back in ER again etc etc etc ..aye right ...

**~~down the slope~~** · 30-04-2012 10:25 PM

Here is a resume of what Doncaster said on radio Scotland.

http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/?p=...medium=twitter

**PatHead** · 30-04-2012 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by happyhibbie

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I know what he is saying John but the hysteria on here is pretty astounding ..never stepping foot back in ER again etc etc etc ..aye right ...

If you look at the survey thread a lot of people were saying that. Not hysteria......fact. I would also be one of them.

***Ozyhibby*** · 30-04-2012 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by happyhibbie

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I know what he is saying John but the hysteria on here is pretty astounding ..never stepping foot back in ER again etc etc etc ..aye right ...

There's a good few thousands Hibs fans finding an excuse not to go already these days.
Like you say, let's wait and see but it's important the club know in advance just how strongly some fans feel about this.

**WarringtonHibee** · 30-04-2012 10:51 PM

What's the actual point anymore?

The SPL is seen as a laughing stock down here, and I understand why. Scrap the whole ****ing lot and start again.

**IndieHibby** · 30-04-2012 10:57 PM

To those of you belittling the rejection of SPL football as a form of entertainment in the light of Doncaster's supposedly concrete assertions that we will see a (debt free?) Newco next year - please present an argument to convince us that supporting any non-OF team has any merit. Because I can't see it!

***Just Alf*** · 30-04-2012 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by down the slope

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Here is a resume of what Doncaster said on radio Scotland.

http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/?p=...medium=twitter

Aye... interesting stuff... especially...

"This is the bottom line for you and for Doncaster. Crystal Palace, Plymouth Argyle and Leeds United all convinced over 75% of creditors to support a CVA.

Here is a list of the teams in Scotland and England (in modern times) who failed to agree a CVA:

Chester City
Farsley Celtic
Rushden and Diamonds
Airdrieonians
Gretna

All of them dissolved. None emerged as a Newco retaining their league status (although Airdrieonians fans bought and moved Clydebank FC).

This man – Doncaster – has no right to present you or SPL clubs with a selected version of English clubs history which plays fast and loose with the most important fact of all – did 75% of creditors agree to a CVA?

Precedents are clear and 100% consistent. Get a CVA agreed or start supporting another football team."

**HUTCHYHIBBY** · 30-04-2012 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by jdships

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

[/SIZE][/U][/I][/B]

Agree totally with what you write !!
As it stands I have drifted away from football as my source of entertainment and very much pick and chosse which games I attend.
One of my pet hates all my life has been being patronised , be it at work in a shop or wherever , and this is exactly what this imposter Doncaster is doing to every non RFC football supporter in Scotland .
Like you if this is the way things are going to be I will have no problems in becoming an armchair supporter of whatever team I fancy on the night .
Scottish Football RIP

That pretty much sums up my relationship with Scottish football these days.

***snooky*** · 30-04-2012 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by HUTCHYHIBBY

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

That pretty much sums up my relationship with Scottish football these days.

2 team SPL next season - could make the split a bit awkward though.

**jgl07** · 01-05-2012 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by happyhibbie

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I know what he is saying John but the hysteria on here is pretty astounding ..never stepping foot back in ER again etc etc etc ..aye right ...

Scoff if you like. If a Rangers Newco is admitted to the SPL, I will never attend another SPL match. I willnot watch an SPL match on televison or view highlight programmes.

I have been a regular at Easter Road for 20 years. I have been a season ticket holder for the majority of that period including season 2012-13.

This is not hyperbole, I really mean it. The SPL will have lost all credibility as far as I am concerned.

If Hibs are relegated I would attend SFL1 matches for next season at least as long as Hibs remained at that level. Other than that I would only watch football down south.

No weasel words from Doncaster will change this. I supsect that plenty of Hibs supporters, Aberdeen fand and even Jambos will think and act the same.

Scottish football is approaching the abyss. If they do not step back from the brink, the SPL will cease to exist within five years in its current form.

**southern hibby** · 01-05-2012 02:41 AM

If they can cheat and get away with it, why not us? What I suggest is as a protest we pick one team each year ( say Aberdeen first ) and all other non firm teams let them win 1-0. If Aberdeen manage to take anything from the old firm points wise even better. I think this would be for the good of Scottish Football because the message I'm getting is cheats prosper. If it stops either of the inbreds from Europe great.
I know this idea is stupid pathetic drivel, but are we not getting that from all quarters who say we need the Huns. At present we can't qualify for jack **** at international level. Have the SFA not got it we are a mediocre footballing nation that no other country gives a hoot about. Now they want to tarnish what we have left of our good name by blatanly allowing this farce to be openenly shown at international level, that we cannot get our house In order.
I too am In the camp of not going back to ER for league games if the cheating **** that are Rankers FC are allowed straight back In. Why should I pay money to watch a farce when I want a HONEST playing field for all teams involved, not for the big two. GGTTH

**H18sry** · 01-05-2012 07:17 AM

What annoys me is Doncaster is totally ignoring what the fans of the other 11 clubs are wanting

***Sprouleflyer*** · 01-05-2012 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by jgl07

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Scoff if you like. If a Rangers Newco is admitted to the SPL, I will never attend another SPL match. I willnot watch an SPL match on televison or view highlight programmes.

I have been a regular at Easter Road for 20 years. I have been a season ticket holder for the majority of that period including season 2012-13.

This is not hyperbole, I really mean it. The SPL will have lost all credibility as far as I am concerned.

If Hibs are relegated I would attend SFL1 matches for next season at least as long as Hibs remained at that level. Other than that I would only watch football down south.

No weasel words from Doncaster will change this. I supsect that plenty of Hibs supporters, Aberdeen fand and even Jambos will think and act the same.

Scottish football is approaching the abyss. If they do not step back from the brink, the SPL will cease to exist within five years in its current form.

Why would you want to watch a far more corrupt and unfair league??

I don't get all this i'm never watching Hibs again? What exactly have Hibs done to warrant not giving them your support?

**The Falcon** · 01-05-2012 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yup.... but, like I say, if they try to sell them at stupid money, any creditor can petition the Court to have the transaction reversed. It would then be up to the liquidator to show that the transaction was at a fair value.

A liquidator, like an administrator, is independent of the company. Any suggestion of collusion or corruption would not be good for their reputation.

I have always suspected this to be the likely outcome because, as others have pointed out, it is only worth what someone is going to pay for it as football related bulidings as there are development obstacles at both sites.

What would make it quite interesting is that if any of the previous directors, who stated that £104m was a fair price, is involved.

**The Falcon** · 01-05-2012 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by Sprouleflyer

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Why would you want to watch a far more corrupt and unfair league??

I don't get all this i'm never watching Hibs again? What exactly have Hibs done to warrant not giving them your support?

Football is corrupt and unfair at all levels. Cheating is endemic and, worst of all, accepted as "part of the game" now.

***bawheid*** · 01-05-2012 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by jgl07

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Scoff if you like. If a Rangers Newco is admitted to the SPL, I will never attend another SPL match. I willnot watch an SPL match on televison or view highlight programmes.

I have been a regular at Easter Road for 20 years. I have been a season ticket holder for the majority of that period including season 2012-13.

This is not hyperbole, I really mean it. The SPL will have lost all credibility as far as I am concerned.

If Hibs are relegated I would attend SFL1 matches for next season at least as long as Hibs remained at that level. Other than that I would only watch football down south.

No weasel words from Doncaster will change this. I supsect that plenty of Hibs supporters, Aberdeen fand and even Jambos will think and act the same.

Scottish football is approaching the abyss. If they do not step back from the brink, the SPL will cease to exist within five years in its current form.

This is pretty much where I am. It's not grandstanding or hyperbole, it's the way I feel. If Rangers are not punished appropriately for over a decade of cheating, I will no longer support Scottish football.

You're correct in that if the SPL go down this route, Scottish football will die. This will not bother Doncaster, Rangers or Celtic though, because in reality this is what they want.

With the SPL dead and buried they will petition to join another league.

A lot of people are making the "why punish Hibs" argument. It's up to Hibs to argue the point successfully to the other 9 non-OF clubs. If they fail to do this then unfortunately they will suffer with the rest of Scottish football.

***Hibrandenburg*** · 01-05-2012 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by Sprouleflyer

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Why would you want to watch a far more corrupt and unfair league??

I don't get all this i'm never watching Hibs again? What exactly have Hibs done to warrant not giving them your support?

Would you play poker against someone who holds all the aces up their sleeves? It's not about punishing Hibs, it's about fair play and integrity and if Hibs stay part and parcel of this pantomine then there is none.

**~~Rasta_Hibs~~** · 01-05-2012 07:51 AM

IF a newco are admitted into the SPL i wont be back to another game and will find something else to do with my time and money! I wont support a club that participates in a league with no integrity. What is the point in that?

I love hibs with my heart and soul but i wont kid myself on by watching them compete in a league that is only there to serve the old firm.

**HFC 0-7** · 01-05-2012 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by happyhibbie

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I know what he is saying John but the hysteria on here is pretty astounding ..never stepping foot back in ER again etc etc etc ..aye right ...

People are currently staying away from easter Road for a lot less, just look at the attendances. I know its not nice to hear people saying they wont go back but it probably would work out that way. Renewing a season ticket is becoming harder and harder for people to justify and will become even harder if fairness goes out the window and rangers are not properly punished. Right now people are complaing about value for money with a ST, if rangers reform in the shape of a newco and are allowed back in what sort of value for money would a ST be then?

People also have to state what actions they would take should a scenario pan out, if they didnt then the club wouldnt know what reaction they would get from the fans one way or another.

***stokesmessiah*** · 01-05-2012 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by Rasta_Hibs

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

IF a newco are admitted into the SPL i wont be back to another game and will find something else to do with my time and money! I wont support a club that participates in a league with no integrity. What is the point in that?

I love hibs with my heart and soul but i wont kid myself on by watching them compete in a league that is only there to serve the old firm.

***grunt*** · 01-05-2012 08:50 AM

More interesting stuff from Paul McConville

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...e-by-11th-may/

***marinello59*** · 01-05-2012 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by MountcastleHibs

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

He pretty much advocated clubs going into administration and liquidation and coming back as new co's. What a complete erse! No wonder our game is Donald ducked with trumpets like him in charge of our game.

Stuff those who will have been stiffed by Rangers and will find their own business suffering, all will be forgiven. I have defended some of Doncasters utterings in the past, never again. His statement last night is truly shameful.

***Spike Mandela*** · 01-05-2012 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by The Falcon

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I have always suspected this to be the likely outcome because, as others have pointed out, it is only worth what someone is going to pay for it as football related bulidings as there are development obstacles at both sites.

What would make it quite interesting is that if any of the previous directors, who stated that £104m was a fair price, is involved.

For all the criticism of Doncaster surely what we have to look at is the law. If this whole incubator group thing is legal then surely it can't have been designed for this kind of scenario. A law that benefits the sinner and punishes the sinned is a travesty. To leave all the debt, creditors and sanctions behind in the oldco is surely tantamount to legalised fraud.

The law is an ass.

***Just Alf*** · 01-05-2012 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by marinello59

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Stuff those who will have been stiffed by Rangers and will find their own business suffering, all will be forgiven. I have defended some of Doncasters utterings in the past, never again. His statement last night is truly shameful.

........ I was bl**dy going mad when I heard him.... I've never heard anything in years that exasperated me so much