Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[ancient hibee]

I wonder what planet some of you guys are on.Nearly all transfers are done on the never never.And if Hearts are late payers and the players put up with it what business is it of anyone else?

[ancient hibee]

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The thing that i find most astonishing about all this is that it makes some of mad vlads rants come true , he wasn't as far off the mark as we all said. That fact is extremely worrying. As for the rest did you really expect rangers to be treated the same as the likes of livingston or gretna.

In what way have they been treated differently exactly?

[blackpoolhibs]

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I wonder what planet some of you guys are on.Nearly all transfers are done on the never never.And if Hearts are late payers and the players put up with it what business is it of anyone else?

I think most of us know transfers are paid over many months even years, as you say the never never. You must agree paying them on the never is wrong though, and just shouldn't be allowed to happen?

[Ozyhibby]

If rule 2a comes about then I'm afraid I won't be supporting Hibs anymore. There would be no point especially after all these years of prudence we have had to endure while watching hearts spending money they have not got and finishing above us year after year. I'll probably just encourage my two boys to support English teams and take them down to watch Spartans. Hope Rod knows what he is doing if he votes this through as I doubt I'm the only person who feels this way. An unfair league is just about bearable but I will not watch a rigged league.

[blackpoolhibs]

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If rule 2a comes about then I'm afraid I won't be supporting Hibs anymore. There would be no point especially after all these years of prudence we have had to endure while watching hearts spending money they have not got and finishing above us year after year. I'll probably just encourage my two boys to support English teams and take them down to watch Spartans. Hope Rod knows what he is doing if he votes this through as I doubt I'm the only person who feels this way. An unfair league is just about bearable but I will not watch a rigged league.

I fear what you say is how a lot of non old firm fans feel? Someone said in another thread how, you wouldn't play poker knowing the dealer was cheating, well thats how it feels this is going?

[down the slope]

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I wonder what planet some of you guys are on.Nearly all transfers are done on the never never.And if Hearts are late payers and the players put up with it what business is it of anyone else?

But do the clubs who are paid late want to put up with it ?, i think it is our business if we were to be beaten by goals from a player that the club could not afford .

[joe breezy]

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The 10 non important clubs should resign from the SPL. They would all go into the same league under the SFL making it as strong a league as the SPL is now.
The top 10 in the first division can be promoted to fight it out with Rangers and Celtic.
The new 1st division should then refuse promotion to the SPL.

This would have the same impact on revenue as the Glasgow pair succeding in their wish to leave the SPL. TV coverage would be drawn to the 1st division instead of the two team SPL.

Sounds like a plan, would be great if they had the baws tae dae it

[The Falcon]

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I think most of us know transfers are paid over many months even years, as you say the never never. You must agree paying them on the never is wrong though, and just shouldn't be allowed to happen?

Which brings us back to the mortgage analogy. If you cant afford the payments you dont get to keep the hoose.

If thats the case lets sign Messi amd Ronaldo for £200m, offer them £1m a week and never ever pay them. Romp the league, keep the players and sell them on for a vast profit when we exit admin and take a ten point hit for our troubles. Piece of piss.

[blackpoolhibs]

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Which brings us back to the mortgage analogy. If you cant afford the payments you dont get to keep the hoose.

If thats the case lets sign Messi amd Ronaldo for £200m, offer them £1m a week and never ever pay them. Romp the league, keep the players and sell them on for a vast profit when we exit admin and take a ten point hit for our troubles. Piece of piss.

[WindyMiller]

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Which is what I stated, that if they fail to pay the payments, then yes, sanctions need to be imposed.

However, people are citing Lee Wallace as an example, but I seem to recall that the money for Wallace is not due to Hearts until later this year. If i'm recalling that incorrectly, then I apologise. If not, then my original point stands.


Edit: Post number 486 from NY Hibbee states "Its actually £800,000. £500,000 this summer and another £300,000 next."

Still owing £1m to Rapid having brought in £3m for Jelly from Everton

"Meanwhile, Rapid Vienna may appeal to Uefa if Rangers fail to pay the money due for Nikica Jelavic.
The Ibrox club signed the striker in 2010 and agreed to pay the £4m fee in instalments but Rapid are still owed just over £1m.
The Austrian club say they would not agree to a company voluntary arrangement that would guarantee only a fraction of the amount owed for the player, who has since joined Everton."

[HibeesLA]

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Still owing £1m to Rapid having brought in £3m for Jelly from Everton

"Meanwhile, Rapid Vienna may appeal to Uefa if Rangers fail to pay the money due for Nikica Jelavic.
The Ibrox club signed the striker in 2010 and agreed to pay the £4m fee in instalments but Rapid are still owed just over £1m.
The Austrian club say they would not agree to a company voluntary arrangement that would guarantee only a fraction of the amount owed for the player, who has since joined Everton."

I'm not disagreeing with the need for sanctions IF they fail to meet their obligations under the contract. What I am saying is that we don't know the terms of the agreement. No where that I've seen does it say what the installment plan was, nor does it say they're past due on the moneys. I agree with Rapids position of going to UEFA as I'd be betting when my payment date comes around (again, assuming it's still in the future), Rangers aren't going to pay up. I would imagine Hearts are probably going to follow suit when the Wallace money doesn't roll in.

I would think that the non-payment of wages clause that has been drafted could be extended to include non-payment of player fees, or anything related to the product on the park. Unfortunately, any business can stop paying invoices to other services, but I think the SPL/SFA need to put their foot down and send a message that they control the playing aspect, and not paying for players on your books is not going to be condoned.

[thebakerboy]

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In what way have they been treated differently exactly?

Well so far they actually have not been treated differently but with these new rules they would be.

[thebakerboy]

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Which brings us back to the mortgage analogy. If you cant afford the payments you dont get to keep the hoose.

If thats the case lets sign Messi amd Ronaldo for £200m, offer them £1m a week and never ever pay them. Romp the league, keep the players and sell them on for a vast profit when we exit admin and take a ten point hit for our troubles. Piece of piss.

Lets try it and see what the Yams say.

[Part/Time Supporter]

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I'm not disagreeing with the need for sanctions IF they fail to meet their obligations under the contract. What I am saying is that we don't know the terms of the agreement. No where that I've seen does it say what the installment plan was, nor does it say they're past due on the moneys. I agree with Rapids position of going to UEFA as I'd be betting when my payment date comes around (again, assuming it's still in the future), Rangers aren't going to pay up. I would imagine Hearts are probably going to follow suit when the Wallace money doesn't roll in.

I would think that the non-payment of wages clause that has been drafted could be extended to include non-payment of player fees, or anything related to the product on the park. Unfortunately, any business can stop paying invoices to other services, but I think the SPL/SFA need to put their foot down and send a message that they control the playing aspect, and not paying for players on your books is not going to be condoned.

Going into administration means the money becomes due immediately, even if you weren't due to be paid for months or years in the future under the original contract. eg the club deck debentures are now due even though they were 25 year loans taken out in 1991.

[H18sry]

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2012/04...ball-to-farce/


What would it mean for Scottish football and wider Scottish society if a business was allowed to build up massive debts, live well beyond its means, distort the ‘market’ of it’s own league, operate illegal business practices for years and then be let off with a slap on the wrist? It would mean that the SPL is a farce not worth taking part in.

It would mean that the idea of a common code – a leveling agreed practice was made a nonsense of. The games a bogey. Time to do walking away, en mass.

The administrators report to creditors published last week lists the debts, the largest estimated combined amount, more than £93m, is to HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC). That’s your school and hospital and your community that doesn’t have income because of tax evation on a scale of grand larceny.

And taxpayer-funded bodies are also directly owed money including: Strathclyde Police (£51,882), Scottish Ambulance Service (£8,438), Culture and Sport Glasgow (£10,338), Glasgow City Council (£7,000), and others.

The report also reveals that Rangers owe more than £2.3m to 12 football clubs in Scotland, England and throughout Europe, including Hearts, Dundee Utd and Dunfermline.

Today we’re told that such behaviour will result in a pathetic sanction. That Rangers could start the next season with a ten point reduction in the SPL. But this completely contradicts past precedent that newco’s have to provide three years accounts.

As Rangers Tax Case has put it:

” I understand (but have not yet verified) that the process for a team that does not fulfill all of its fixtures is that all of its results are voided and it finishes the season on zero points. (or -10 points in Rangers’ case due to the penalty for insolvency). This would relegate Rangers from the SPL. The number of clubs who would likely object to a newco being dropped into the SPL could then start to rise. The chances of the SPL getting bogged down in court proceedings start to increase dramatically. Thus far, the SFA and the SPL have failed miserably to provide leadership in this process. Only recently stirred from their slumbers, they do not appear to have thought any of these processes through. It is vital that these organisations start thinking and listening to expert advice. They must figure out all of the pathways and pitfalls now.”

This is true, but the SPL clubs and fans of all clubs need to make it clear that any attempt to waive the rules and allow Rangers back into the league will humiliate Scottish football.

We’re asking all fans to support the statement: “If Rangers #newco are allowed back to the SPL immediately I will officially stop attending SPL football matches.” Put it on facebook and fans forums and twitter.

There’s an opportunity to remake Scottish football, but if this is allowed to happen, there is no point.

[IWasThere2016]

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http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2012/04...ball-to-farce/


What would it mean for Scottish football and wider Scottish society if a business was allowed to build up massive debts, live well beyond its means, distort the ‘market’ of it’s own league, operate illegal business practices for years and then be let off with a slap on the wrist? It would mean that the SPL is a farce not worth taking part in.

It would mean that the idea of a common code – a leveling agreed practice was made a nonsense of. The games a bogey. Time to do walking away, en mass.

The administrators report to creditors published last week lists the debts, the largest estimated combined amount, more than £93m, is to HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC). That’s your school and hospital and your community that doesn’t have income because of tax evation on a scale of grand larceny.

And taxpayer-funded bodies are also directly owed money including: Strathclyde Police (£51,882), Scottish Ambulance Service (£8,438), Culture and Sport Glasgow (£10,338), Glasgow City Council (£7,000), and others.

The report also reveals that Rangers owe more than £2.3m to 12 football clubs in Scotland, England and throughout Europe, including Hearts, Dundee Utd and Dunfermline.

Today we’re told that such behaviour will result in a pathetic sanction. That Rangers could start the next season with a ten point reduction in the SPL. But this completely contradicts past precedent that newco’s have to provide three years accounts.

As Rangers Tax Case has put it:

” I understand (but have not yet verified) that the process for a team that does not fulfill all of its fixtures is that all of its results are voided and it finishes the season on zero points. (or -10 points in Rangers’ case due to the penalty for insolvency). This would relegate Rangers from the SPL. The number of clubs who would likely object to a newco being dropped into the SPL could then start to rise. The chances of the SPL getting bogged down in court proceedings start to increase dramatically. Thus far, the SFA and the SPL have failed miserably to provide leadership in this process. Only recently stirred from their slumbers, they do not appear to have thought any of these processes through. It is vital that these organisations start thinking and listening to expert advice. They must figure out all of the pathways and pitfalls now.”

This is true, but the SPL clubs and fans of all clubs need to make it clear that any attempt to waive the rules and allow Rangers back into the league will humiliate Scottish football.

We’re asking all fans to support the statement: “If Rangers #newco are allowed back to the SPL immediately I will officially stop attending SPL football matches.” Put it on facebook and fans forums and twitter.

There’s an opportunity to remake Scottish football, but if this is allowed to happen, there is no point.

Top post R - I'll let you win at Words With Friends for that one!

[Twa Cairpets]

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There are some chairmen looking for stronger sanctions, hopefully our Rod is one of them, and they should be making the case to EUFA to have the case of a newly formed football club treated in the proper manner.
Voted into the SFL and starting in Division 3.

How can anyone considerate fair that Dunfermline or Hibs, who have played by the rules, lose their place in the SPL and the cheating Huns are kept in.

I hope you're right. I think the vast majority of fans outwith Greyskull see this as genuinely fair punishment. Its accepted they wont disapper forever, but for them to be back in the SPL next year (assuming they're still not in administration) would be an obscenity. Hibs position on this and the ultimate outcome will define my future football watching behaviour.

There are so many moral, legal and sporting imperatives that would be run roughshod over if they get back in it beggars belief.

[Bishop Hibee]

This apology for sanctions makes me sick. I love Hibs but what is the point going to see them when we'd basically be handing the title to Rantic on a plate when we have the chance to level the playing field.

I've never written a letter to Hibs before but I'll be firing one off letting them know I'll not be renewing my ST if this goes ahead.

[matty_f]

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This apology for sanctions makes me sick. I love Hibs but what is the point going to see them when we'd basically be handing the title to Rantic on a plate when we have the chance to level the playing field.

I've never written a letter to Hibs before but I'll be firing one off letting them know I'll not be renewing my ST if this goes ahead.

The SPL will be left with as much integrity as the wrestling.

It was bad enough suspecting that everything was rigged in favour of the OF, having it confirmed and being expected to assume the position and take what's coming is out of order.

[Saorsa]

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http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2012/04...ball-to-farce/


We’re asking all fans to support the statement: “If Rangers #newco are allowed back to the SPL immediately I will officially stop attending SPL football matches.” Put it on facebook and fans forums and twitter.

There’s an opportunity to remake Scottish football, but if this is allowed to happen, there is no point.

[jgl07]

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This is true, but the SPL clubs and fans of all clubs need to make it clear that any attempt to waive the rules and allow Rangers back into the league will humiliate Scottish football.

We’re asking all fans to support the statement: “If Rangers #newco are allowed back to the SPL immediately I will officially stop attending SPL football matches.” Put it on facebook and fans forums and twitter.

There’s an opportunity to remake Scottish football, but if this is allowed to happen, there is no point.

Rangers are adept at waiving the rules. As their song goes:

"Rule Brittania
Brittania waives the rules..."

[Jack]

I can see this whole thing panning out in two steps for the 'establishment'. And I'm all for doing the why bother when its fixed boycott.

1. We get shafted by a newco rangers and are shafted.

2. The result is that I, and thousands across the country like me don't go to games. The Scottish game withers on the vine and the OF bugger off to England. We're shafted having been reduced to zilch because there's no point.

There is the third bit where fairness and honesty make a comeback, but sadly I can't see that.

This is such a huge moment in time for Scottish football - and its us, the other 36??? senior clubs, or rangers.

[CentreLine]

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http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2012/04...ball-to-farce/


What would it mean for Scottish football and wider Scottish society if a business was allowed to build up massive debts, live well beyond its means, distort the ‘market’ of it’s own league, operate illegal business practices for years and then be let off with a slap on the wrist? It would mean that the SPL is a farce not worth taking part in.

It would mean that the idea of a common code – a leveling agreed practice was made a nonsense of. The games a bogey. Time to do walking away, en mass.

The administrators report to creditors published last week lists the debts, the largest estimated combined amount, more than £93m, is to HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC). That’s your school and hospital and your community that doesn’t have income because of tax evation on a scale of grand larceny.

And taxpayer-funded bodies are also directly owed money including: Strathclyde Police (£51,882), Scottish Ambulance Service (£8,438), Culture and Sport Glasgow (£10,338), Glasgow City Council (£7,000), and others.

The report also reveals that Rangers owe more than £2.3m to 12 football clubs in Scotland, England and throughout Europe, including Hearts, Dundee Utd and Dunfermline.

Today we’re told that such behaviour will result in a pathetic sanction. That Rangers could start the next season with a ten point reduction in the SPL. But this completely contradicts past precedent that newco’s have to provide three years accounts.

As Rangers Tax Case has put it:

” I understand (but have not yet verified) that the process for a team that does not fulfill all of its fixtures is that all of its results are voided and it finishes the season on zero points. (or -10 points in Rangers’ case due to the penalty for insolvency). This would relegate Rangers from the SPL. The number of clubs who would likely object to a newco being dropped into the SPL could then start to rise. The chances of the SPL getting bogged down in court proceedings start to increase dramatically. Thus far, the SFA and the SPL have failed miserably to provide leadership in this process. Only recently stirred from their slumbers, they do not appear to have thought any of these processes through. It is vital that these organisations start thinking and listening to expert advice. They must figure out all of the pathways and pitfalls now.”

This is true, but the SPL clubs and fans of all clubs need to make it clear that any attempt to waive the rules and allow Rangers back into the league will humiliate Scottish football.

We’re asking all fans to support the statement: “If Rangers #newco are allowed back to the SPL immediately I will officially stop attending SPL football matches.” Put it on facebook and fans forums and twitter.

There’s an opportunity to remake Scottish football, but if this is allowed to happen, there is no point.

A whole lot of people have been saying this since this whole mess began. Scottish football has to wake up to this because the game may very well die here on the back of what the people who administer the game do. I am absolutely resolute in my position, if Rangers emerge as a newco and are not ejected from the SPL then I will always take a passing interest in what Hibs and the National Team are doing but I am finished with Scottish football as a paying supporter.

[7 Hills]

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A whole lot of people have been saying this since this whole mess began. Scottish football has to wake up to this because the game may very well die here on the back of what the people who administer the game do. I am absolutely resolute in my position, if Rangers emerge as a newco and are not ejected from the SPL then I will always take a passing interest in what Hibs and the National Team are doing but I am finished with Scottish football as a paying supporter.

This is my position too, and I have just renewed my season ticket for the 20th year in a row. If Rangers are allowed to start up as a newco with derisory sanctions, then I am FINISHED with Scottish Football and I will put no money whatsoever into any company that sponsors the SPL or any SPL club.

[Moulin Yarns]

The SPL 10 delay the meeting/vote due today to the 30th April. Not looking good IMHO

[Onion]

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I hope you're right. I think the vast majority of fans outwith Greyskull see this as genuinely fair punishment. Its accepted they wont disapper forever, but for them to be back in the SPL next year (assuming they're still not in administration) would be an obscenity. Hibs position on this and the ultimate outcome will define my future football watching behaviour.

There are so many moral, legal and sporting imperatives that would be run roughshod over if they get back in it beggars belief.

What's worrying is that this resolution should not even have seen the light of the day. Yes, we all know it would have been discussed. Yes, the OF , SKY TV, media and everyone else who is driven by money would have been lobbying for this. But to actually get to the stage of drafting this as a formal PROPOSAL shows how out of touch they are with reality, sporting integrity and football fans generally. It is abhorrent, an obscenity. Even if these people vote the resolution down, their credibility in drafting it in the first place - shows that they are not fit to run our game.

[sambajustice]

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Detail on the SPL site:

http://www.scotprem.com/content/defa...2&newsid=11256



I think Resolution 5 will be the key. It almost certainly is bending the existing article regarding the transfer of SPL share requiring an 11-1 vote. I bet there is absolutely zero press coverage or explanation of what Resolution 5 involves. This is the behind closed doors stitch up we've all been expecting.

Resolution 5 itself requires an 11-1 vote.

Hibs and the rest: 19 days to avoid the mother of all corrupt back door deals.

Umm, can someone spell this out for me in black and white please?

i get the picture that the huns are basically being told that they can wind up and start again in the SPL but how has that come about.

i suppose its clarification on the wording of the document im looking for really, 2A and 5 being the main ones...

[Captain Trips]

I 100% believe if this was any other non OF club they would be looking at application to Div 3, just a look around the last few pages of this thread shows how angry people are with the possible situations ahead.

I think if Rangers are allowed back in it will be the beginning of the end, I will not be paying money to watch SPL games any more, take into account lots of ST holders looking at this situation very closly and sales thus far there could be troubling times ahead if Rangers are allowed in regardless of pts deductions.

[Jim44]

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The SPL 10 delay the meeting/vote due today to the 30th April. Not looking good IMHO

Cluck, cluck, cluck, cluck, cluck ................................... a dearth of testicles among the so-called rebels.

[green glory]

I think the 10 are just waiting for the inevitable to happen, ie liquidation. When that happens it's one less OF vote and probably the right time to strike. I think it's more about timing rather than bottling it.