Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[CropleyWasGod]

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But if they lose the tax case, when might they be forced into liquidation? If they're still losing money despite the pay cuts, surely HMRC won't allow this to continue.

If they lose the tax case, then you might see HMRC petitioning for their winding-up. However, that wouldn't happen overnight. HMRC would issue a demand for the cash. Then a reminder. Then a letter threatening legal action. Then legal action.

However, as things stand, they can continue with the cash they have.

[PatHead]

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If they lose the tax case, then you might see HMRC petitioning for their winding-up. However, that wouldn't happen overnight. HMRC would issue a demand for the cash. Then a reminder. Then a letter threatening legal action. Then legal action.

However, as things stand, they can continue with the cash they have.

Would have thought administrators would be struggling to justify they could trade out administration and liquidation would be only option? Could the court not force their hand. By the way can you confirm if a firm is liquidated do they cease trading straight away or can they see out the season?

[Hibs Class]

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I think P MacG is raising (to continue with the Easter theme) false hopes in his article. The admins will have budgeted on making it to the end of the season. That was the whole point of the player negotiations.

Did they budget on making it to the end of the season in a scenario which was based on a CVA being the longer term outcome? If that changes and liquidation becomes the obvious outcome then all their planning is up in the air.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Would have thought administrators would be struggling to justify they could trade out administration and liquidation would be only option? Could the court not force their hand. By the way can you confirm if a firm is liquidated do they cease trading straight away or can they see out the season?

If a company is deemed by its directors to be insolvent, ie its debts exceed its assets or it can't meet its liabilities as they fall due, then it has to cease trading and take the appropriate steps to enter an insolvency process....in this case, that would be liquidation. Any debts incurred by the directors after that point can be held to be the directors' own personal liability.

So, if the BTC verdict comes in this week, and it's bad for RFC, then the admins have a decision to make. If the bids on the table are insufficient to cover the liability, then the only appropriate action is liquidation.


However, as things stand, the only thing the admins can do is continue on the course they set out in February and keep trading.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Did they budget on making it to the end of the season in a scenario which was based on a CVA being the longer term outcome? If that changes and liquidation becomes the obvious outcome then all their planning is up in the air.

Yes, I think they did. That was the appropriate approach to adopt at the time and, IMO, is still the only approach they can take until the bidding process has been exhausted and/or the Tribunal decision is in.

[Seveno]

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I think P MacG is raising (to continue with the Easter theme) false hopes in his article. The admins will have budgeted on making it to the end of the season. That was the whole point of the player negotiations.

I worry about you, Crops. This misplaced trust in Duff & Duffer is endearing but somewhat concerning for a man of your stature.

I think you need a holiday.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I worry about you, Crops. This misplaced trust in Duff & Duffer is endearing but somewhat concerning for a man of your stature.

I think you need a holiday.

... now there's a thought....

[jgl07]

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Yes, I think they did. That was the appropriate approach to adopt at the time and, IMO, is still the only approach they can take until the bidding process has been exhausted and/or the Tribunal decision is in.

Also by continuing till the end of the season, Rangers will be eligible for payouts from the SPL which I presume would be lost if they liquidated prior to completing their fixtures.

[Seveno]

As Rangers continue to unravel, the same situation could follow at their ex-Parent company, MIH. Once those carpets are lifted, we could yet see David Murray being disbarred as a Company Director.

Or is that just wishful thinking on my part ?

[ScottB]

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As Rangers continue to unravel, the same situation could follow at their ex-Parent company, MIH. Once those carpets are lifted, we could yet see David Murray being disbarred as a Company Director.

Or is that just wishful thinking on my part ?

Presumably MIH were using the same EBT scheme? Considering various ex Gers directors seem to be suggesting that MIH were entirely responsible for deciding Rangers tax policies...

[Andy74]

Have I misses something on Europe?

Motherwell v Rangers the other day there was still the premise that motherweel needed to beat them to try and get this champions League place.

Did I imagine a few weeks ago that the club had to be out of admin by 31 March to have any chance of Europe?

There seems to have been no word after that deadline having been passed that Rangers are now officially out of Europe next year?

[PatHead]

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Have I misses something on Europe?

Motherwell v Rangers the other day there was still the premise that motherweel needed to beat them to try and get this champions League place.

Did I imagine a few weeks ago that the club had to be out of admin by 31 March to have any chance of Europe?

There seems to have been no word after that deadline having been passed that Rangers are now officially out of Europe next year?

That is the case though I think they can still appeal if special circumstances are in place. These could include not being able to read or write due to them being knuckle draggers, the big house must stay open and they arra peepil.

[JeMeSouviens]

They gave up on Europe ages ago:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17287929

... and it was mentioned in the lead up to their game v the Huns that 3rd would do for CL:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17532237

Fancy United to catch them anyway.

[JeMeSouviens]

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As Rangers continue to unravel, the same situation could follow at their ex-Parent company, MIH. Once those carpets are lifted, we could yet see David Murray being disbarred as a Company Director.

Or is that just wishful thinking on my part ?

If the post-FTT revelations are as juicy as RTC hints, Murray could be joining Fred Goodwin in the ex-knights' club.

[Andy74]

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They gave up on Europe ages ago:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17287929

... and it was mentioned in the lead up to their game v the Huns that 3rd would do for CL:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17532237

Fancy United to catch them anyway.

There's still a few 'ifs' in there and I am surprised not to have seen some official confirmation with the date having passed.

[CropleyWasGod]

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There's still a few 'ifs' in there and I am surprised not to have seen some official confirmation with the date having passed.

To be fair, the deadline was only on Saturday.

Given that that was the deadline for every club in Scotland to get their appropriate licence submissions in, I'd imagine that the SFA will be very busy today.

[jgl07]

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To be fair, the deadline was only on Saturday.

Given that that was the deadline for every club in Scotland to get their appropriate licence submissions in, I'd imagine that the SFA will be very busy today.

More to the point, did Hearts get their accounts in on time?

[CropleyWasGod]

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More to the point, did Hearts get their accounts in on time?

We can but hope.

Not.

[blindsummit]

notice that Rangerstaxcase has been down all day. Under cyber attack from the Loyal and their chums in the MSM perhaps?

[TheEastTerrace]

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notice that Rangerstaxcase has been down all day. Under cyber attack from the Loyal and their chums in the MSM perhaps?

Same happened to Phil Mac's website a while back when some of the more interesting revelations began to emerge. Some big-wig current bun wrote to the hosting company and complained that the website was full of libelous claims about Rangers that were devaluing the club. Safe to say the website was back up and running not long after.

[Part/Time Supporter]

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Have I misses something on Europe?

Motherwell v Rangers the other day there was still the premise that motherweel needed to beat them to try and get this champions League place.

Did I imagine a few weeks ago that the club had to be out of admin by 31 March to have any chance of Europe?

There seems to have been no word after that deadline having been passed that Rangers are now officially out of Europe next year?

I think it was more on the basis that Motherwell need points to stay ahead of Dundee United, St. Johnstone and possibly Hearts. The administrators have already accepted that Rangers won't be in compliance with the UEFA requirements.

[blindsummit]

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Same happened to Phil Mac's website a while back when some of the more interesting revelations began to emerge. Some big-wig current bun wrote to the hosting company and complained that the website was full of libelous claims about Rangers that were devaluing the club. Safe to say the website was back up and running not long after.

If this is the case, I hope Rangerstaxcase is back up and running soon. And if they were shut down in this way, then I hope rtc gives us the scoop.

[Andy74]

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I think it was more on the basis that Motherwell need points to stay ahead of Dundee United, St. Johnstone and possibly Hearts. The administrators have already accepted that Rangers won't be in compliance with the UEFA requirements.

Good. Just checking!

[grunt]

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notice that Rangerstaxcase has been down all day. Under cyber attack from the Loyal and their chums in the MSM perhaps?

Rangers Tax-Case‏@rangerstaxcaseLooks like DoS attack on the blog. Will prob take a few days to fix. Coincidental timing I am sure! :-)

[blindsummit]

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Rangers Tax-Case‏@rangerstaxcaseLooks like DoS attack on the blog. Will prob take a few days to fix. Coincidental timing I am sure! :-)

I would just love to know who has coordinated this attack. That knowledge could be explosive if uncovered.

[Eyrie]

Nice quote from Duff and Duffer in today's Scotsman about the possibility of liquidation that "... there is an amount of toxicity in there ...". Just surprised that it was in reference to their past financial decisions and not to their support.

[Granton Stanton]

Question for those with the accountancy hats on - CavG & CWG come to mind.

If these EBT's were loans than cant the club or creditors pursue those who got the loans for repayment?

Now that would be good, can you imagine the squealing.

[Eyrie]

My understanding is that an EBT is a separate legal entity to the club and so is not affected by the current administration.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Question for those with the accountancy hats on - CavG & CWG come to mind.

If these EBT's were loans than cant the club or creditors pursue those who got the loans for repayment?

Now that would be good, can you imagine the squealing.

I was thinking about this yesterday, actually....

As I understand it, the "loans" were from the Trust... which was set up, I believe, in Jersey or Guernsey. The Trust was funded by contributions from the Club.

So, it's only the Trust that can recover the loans from it. Once the money left the Club, the Club no longer has control.



Which is a shame. It would have been good to see Amoruso, Laudrup, Albertz et al having their days in Court.

[greenginger]

Just getting round to reading the back pages of this morning's rag.

Martin Bain's excuse for the EBT scandal is now ,

" I acted in strict accordance with the tax and legal instructions given by the Murray Group "

" At Rangers, we had no in-house legal and tax advice. This all came from the head office of the Murray Group "

Is Bain trying to cut some slack for the Huns with the HMRC, or simply trying to save his own neck from the Govan lynch-mob when Armageddon arrives.