Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Onion]

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Sadly true....

So what if we go back (in some natural way) to the time of late 70's / early 80's when the OF were not very good winning everything and 15,000 crowds were not unusual for the OF.....are we going to just make up the rules so they win/ keep big crowds / have happy SKY

YES we should run clubs in a business like way...BUT they are sporting clubs firstly and without sporting integrity they are nothing.

All this cobblers about money = good football / better standard. Scotland will never compete with England on our door step for best players...so why pay such huge wages to get mediocre players...

A season of Watching our double winning U19's shows you can have great football / entertainment / competition.....and very little money involved....there are now players on the dole due to shrinking squads...we need to find a level of sustainable wage, for which there will always be players willing to play for as it will still be better than blokes grafting on building sites (as example) are earning...of course the best will move on...but they do anyway now...

Simple put, 100% correct. So why are people like this blustering St J idiot allowed anywhere near a Scottish Football club. The guy is a complete idiot.

[KazHibby]

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If Brown has one of six votes, who holds the other five? His attitude sums up everything that is wrong with scottish football.

The current SPL Board is made up of Ralph Topping (SPL Chairman), Neil Doncaster (SPL Chief Executive), Eric Riley (Celtic FC), Stephen Thompson (Dundee United FC), Derek Weir (Motherwell FC) and Steven Brown (St Johnstone FC).

If it comes down to a vote of these folk, I would foresee a welcome party at SPL HQ!!!

For a lighter view of the situation re the currant buns plight, taken from the excellent RTC thread,

'Is Channel 4′s report of document shredding relevant to Rangers’ tax cases? I do not know. That would be for Rangers FC and its former directors to comment.

There must be some kind of remedial teaching award available to anyone who is able to explain any of this to a Scottish sports journalist.'

[matty_f]

If nowt gets done, or a token gesture is made then the SPL will carry about as much integrity as wrestling.

[CentreLine]

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STEVE Brown, the St Johnstone chairman, has warned that if Rangers go into liquidation and are not permitted to re-enter the SPL as a new company, several top-flight clubs would go out of business.
One of the six members of the SPL board whose job it would be to consider an application by the “new” Rangers, Brown stressed that he had yet to make up his mind as to what would be the most appropriate course of action.
He said that he hoped never to be faced with the decision but, if he was, he would have to weigh sporting integrity against the cost to clubs such as his own. Refusing to grant the Glasgow club an SPL licence would, in his view, lead to a financial “disaster”.
Asked if he meant that some clubs would go to the wall, Brown replied: “I think they would. I think a lot of them are kidding themselves on. One or two of them are on the brink as it is. If they’re on the brink as it is, and they’re getting support financially from Rangers and Sky, there can only be one thing [that would happen].”
In an exclusive interview with Scotland on Sunday, Brown also called for a more conciliatory approach by the SPL’s non-Old Firm clubs to the current row over voting rights. Some have said that they would consider resigning from the top flight in protest.
He says that only the best-run clubs would survive in a league without the Old Firm. “Would you get by without the Old Firm? We [at St Johnstone] would get by. We’ve demonstrated that because we’ve been in the First Division for seven years, but you certainly wouldn’t have the same calibre of player at your club. Could the other teams get by without the Old Firm? I think three or four of them would go out of business. Careful what you wish for.”
Brown says that, if a newco Rangers were to be excluded from the SPL, the economic impact would outweigh any other benefits. “You probably would get more supporters because your team would be likely to be more competitive, but in financial terms, it would be a disaster, an absolute disaster.
“In financial terms, I can’t see how [the other clubs] could possibly fill the gap. The revenue they [Rangers] bring with them equates to probably three or four games against teams from the bottom six. It’s a huge void, both in gate revenue and TV money because it is my understanding that the Sky contract would fall through.”


Bit in bold for me......we want a league with well run (living within means) clubs...if other go bust then so be it...time for the SPL to be run on a different basis where clubs like ours who have invested in infastructure and youth programms get the benefit of that and are not 'cheated' by others. Brown has done a great job with St J...but they need to get more of their own fans in their ground and not rely on filling it a few times a season with bigger teams fans.

I also think if he is on panel that will stand in judgement then he should not really be doing interviews like this .....

Does the man not realise that it is this very attitude that is chasing thousands of fans away every week from MacDairmid Park and down the A9/A8 to Glasgow. If we show ourselves to be at the stage where the OF do not have to play to the same rules as everyone else, I have said it before, I am off and I do not think I will be alone

[NAE NOOKIE]

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I still think that there will be some form of sanction - there has to be.

As has been mentioned before, SPL2 seems to be the likely solution.

No way will NewCo Gers end up in the 3rd division IMO.

Thats the solution for me too Broxburn. I would settle for an SPL 1 and 2 with newco huns starting in 2 with a points deduction.

Its a solution for everybody. To allow them back into the SPL after liquidation would be a death knell for Scottish football with thousands of fans giving up.

As for the Walter Smith interview. The man was a good manager for Scotland and I suppose his beloved rangers too. But when it comes to his opinion in that article he cant be very intelligent if he cant see the irony of what he is saying. Basically the rest of the SPL are gutless because they didnt do anything before, when it would have been impossible for them to do so.

The SPL clubs have simply seen an opportunity to stand up to a bully and taken it, surely even a biased individual like Watty can see and understand that. Like a lot of old firm apologists he just cant see that the supporters of every other club in Scotland dont give a flying one about whats best for the OF.

As he says the OF will continue to dominate Scottish football ..... But what we want is for them to do it fairly from a level playing field.

[Bostonhibby]

Have been right on the money for a while now, also throw in the odd related interesting tale.

Planet Football - Rangers

Rangers directors were assured by solicitor Gary Withey, then (but no longer) of Collyer Bristow, that his client Craig Whyte had the funds not just to repay BOS £18M but also to provide working capital of £5m.

Collyer Bristow had been provided with "written assurances from a UK financial institution".

It is now suggested that the institution may have been none other than Merchant House Group (MHG), where Whyte was a major shareholder with influence on the board. Furthermore, Whyte was said by MHG to have more than £30m available to spend. If this is true,then clearly MHG as well as Withey were misled. BOS was paid from the sale of Rangers future ticket revenue.

After Whyte had been disqualified as a director in 2000 he came to the attention of the Companies Investigation Branch (CIB) when he started making moves on financially troubled shoe firm FII Group, where his old pal Aidan Earley was a player. By September 2002 Monaco company Lebron Holdings Services had acquired a more than 5% stake. Lebron and Whyte were previously linked at failed Re-Tex Plastic Technology.

The CIB was contacted by the FII pension fund trustees, who were concerned about Whyte and Earley's intentions. The CIB monitored Whyte's telephone calls from Monaco, with the help of the security services. Any deal fell through, so the CIB took no further action.

FII collapsed in 2004, largely due to its pension fund deficit.

[Kaiser1962]

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The current SPL Board is made up of Ralph Topping (SPL Chairman), Neil Doncaster (SPL Chief Executive), Eric Riley (Celtic FC), Stephen Thompson (Dundee United FC), Derek Weir (Motherwell FC) and Steven Brown (St Johnstone FC).

If it comes down to a vote of these folk, I would foresee a welcome party at SPL HQ!!!

For a lighter view of the situation re the currant buns plight, taken from the excellent RTC thread,

'Is Channel 4′s report of document shredding relevant to Rangers’ tax cases? I do not know. That would be for Rangers FC and its former directors to comment.

There must be some kind of remedial teaching award available to anyone who is able to explain any of this to a Scottish sports journalist.'

As RTC pointed out it is quite alarming, though not surprising, that C4 seems to have uncovered more in a fortnight that the entire Scottish media managed in over a year.

There is a danger that all sorts of precedents are being set and the next club, which may well be our neighbours, can rightly point to the impotence of the authorities in the Rangers case, and use it to safeguard their own position within the SPL.

Rangers are totally different from Motherwell in that Motherwell owed the vast proportion of their debt to John Boyle, who subsequently waived it to ensure the survival of Motherwell. Rangers have taken part in a calculated tax avoidance plan and *******ised it to the extent that it now very much looks like a tax evasion scheme and, in any other circumstance, I would be expecting HMRC to prosecute, or at least attempt to.

[Kaiser1962]

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What price sporting integrity?
People like Brown need to realise that failing to dothe right thing will drive fans away in their droves. Why would I or anyone else shell out £400 on a season ticket knowing full well we've been cheated for years and now the league isn't even pretending it's a level playing field? The SPL can GTF if they bend over to Rangers.

Sporting integrity went years ago Matty. There are no rewards in the modern game for honesty. The opposite in fact.

[cabbageandribs1875]

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It's not actually a sanction though. There are two issues here - RFC going bust and RFC breaking the rules. If RFC go bust - i.e. are liquidated it is the concept of a new and different club being allowed to take their place in the top league because they have affiliated themselves to the old huns. Morally they have less right to that place than Stirling Albion or Brechin Cty for example.

The other issue - breaking the rules goes away if Newhun is formed but IMO should still be considered because Newhun have affiliated themselves to the Oldhun cheats. If RFC stay afloat then they still have the cheating accusations to answer. There's also the matter of an officer of RFC dishonestly gaining access to confidential information in St Mirren's books. I think that is bigger than it first appears and I hope the Buddies take it further.

the st.mirren director that allowed that to happen has been asked to leave the club

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17575289

St Mirren have told takeover hopeful Ken McGeoch to resign from the board by end of business on Monday or they will call an extraordinary meeting.

The club had claimed that McGeoch had shown confidential information to Rangers' company secretary.

[Spike Mandela]

I think it's fair to say now that Liquidation is out in the open that the Scottish Media's campaign to ease Rangers re-entry to the SPL is officially in full swing.

[Caversham Green]

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the st.mirren director that allowed that to happen has been asked to leave the club

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17575289

St Mirren have told takeover hopeful Ken McGeoch to resign from the board by end of business on Monday or they will call an extraordinary meeting.

The club had claimed that McGeoch had shown confidential information to Rangers' company secretary.

I know, but I think St Mirren should also be making a complaint to the SPL - Withey should have been nowhere near those negotiations as he had a clear conflict of interest.

If you've ventured over to the dark side recently you'll know that Hearts were charged with failing to act in the utmost good faith towards the league and its members - this is a far more blatant example of that than the yams paying their players late. In fact it looks to me like there was a Plan B that involved the remnants of RFC buying out St Mirren.

[greenginger]

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The fans will drift away faster than a "blink of an eye" if Mr Brown get's is way It's just sad to see the game we love get in this mess, with people like him bending over with such ease.. IT'S WRONG..

Sunday Herald warns them to take the "Brace Position"

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/...again.17193773

If Rangers start fielding 12 players in matches will Brown rush to their defence and excuse them by insisting the SPL needs a strong Rangers and playing an extra player helps to achieve this.

Rangers punishment should be the same as any other Club and the question asked should be " How would we have dealt with a Partick Thistle or an East Fife in similar circumstances ? "

[jgl07]

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Thats the solution for me too Broxburn. I would settle for an SPL 1 and 2 with newco huns starting in 2 with a points deduction.

Its a solution for everybody. To allow them back into the SPL after liquidation would be a death knell for Scottish football with thousands of fans giving up.

I can't see how SPL2 can be set up before the 2013-14 season.

Mind you the technical and legal issues in setting up a NewCo Rangers playing at Ibrox could mean that they would not be in a position to compete before that season.

[PatHead]

Think it is likely we will have a 14 team SPL next year with Rangers, Ross County and Dunfermline all being in it along with one other. Pay off will be SPL2 following season.

[Bostonhibby]

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the st.mirren director that allowed that to happen has been asked to leave the club

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17575289

St Mirren have told takeover hopeful Ken McGeoch to resign from the board by end of business on Monday or they will call an extraordinary meeting.

The club had claimed that McGeoch had shown confidential information to Rangers' company secretary.

and see my post above - same names keep cropping up, surely there's more than one firm of solicitors in the country? all a bit masonic sounding to me. The "Knights" doing there bit however they can...........

[ancient hibee]

Latest conspiracy theory(mine).

The bidding Yanks are a company specialising in company reconstruction;
Duff and Phelps,the liquidators, are an American company specialising in company reconstruction;
Craig Whyte is a company director who has done nothing but company reconstruction and was advised by Duff and Phelps on his takeover.
Anyone see a common thread by any chance.

If Rangers are liquidated I think they should stay in the SPL but under a penalty of starting at minus 40 points for each of the next 5 seasons.

[Hibs Class]

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Latest conspiracy theory(mine).

The bidding Yanks are a company specialising in company reconstruction;
Duff and Phelps,the liquidators, are an American company specialising in company reconstruction;
Craig Whyte is a company director who has done nothing but company reconstruction and was advised by Duff and Phelps on his takeover.
Anyone see a common thread by any chance.

If Rangers are liquidated I think they should stay in the SPL but under a penalty of starting at minus 40 points for each of the next 5 seasons.

All that would do is hand five titles to the other OF cheek. Minus 140 on the other hand, I'd maybe accept that.

[calmac12000]

This whole saga is a textbook case where a supine(being charitable) media constructs a reality for consumption by an uneducated(even more charitable here) public i.e. Huns. This created fantasy or orthodoxy changes and develops over time, eventually containing so many logical inconsistencies that it should in a normal society be exposed for what it is. However, being Scotland with its morally bankrupt media, each development is treated as if its the result of alien intervention. The end result for the more discerning amongst us, is to disbelieve every Scottish media outlet and rely on this forum as a "true" source for information on this story.

[CropleyWasGod]

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This whole saga is a textbook case where a supine(being charitable) media constructs a reality for consumption by an uneducated(even more charitable here) public i.e. Huns. This created fantasy or orthodoxy changes and develops over time, eventually containing so many logical inconsistencies that it should in a normal society be exposed for what it is. However, being Scotland with its morally bankrupt media, each development is treated as if its the result of alien intervention. The end result for the more discerning amongst us, is to disbelieve every Scottish media outlet and rely on this forum as a "true" source for information on this story.

Oh, you are so gullible

[dangermouse]

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The implication is that it was any of the other 10 clubs in the huns' place - including his own St Johnstone - they would suffer the consequences, but because it's one of the old firm special concessions should be made.

Probably the most depressing comment I've read so far on the matter (Edit: I mean Brown's comment, not yours Jim).

Too true. I'm surprised no journalist has picked up on this but then who in the weegie press would. A case of everyone is equal but some are more equal than others

If this had been SJ going to the wall there would be a lot less pages on this thread and a good few trees would still be standing as we wouldn't have had the reams of guff we've had to put up with for a month and a half.

[grunt]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/the...day/#more-2373

[PatHead]

If this happened I assume Rangers could not see out the season and our win in Inverness wasn't worth a sook. I also assume it would mean 5 teams in the bottom half of the league and all their (Rangers) results wiped out.

Oh God please I promise to be good if they shut down! (Prayer type smiley if there was one)

[CropleyWasGod]

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If this happened I assume Rangers could not see out the season and our win in Inverness wasn't worth a sook. I also assume it would mean 5 teams in the bottom half of the league and all their (Rangers) results wiped out.

Oh God please I promise to be good if they shut down! (Prayer type smiley if there was one)

I think P MacG is raising (to continue with the Easter theme) false hopes in his article. The admins will have budgeted on making it to the end of the season. That was the whole point of the player negotiations.

[lapsedhibee]

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(Prayer type smiley if there was one)

Think this might be one.

[PatHead]

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I think P MacG is raising (to continue with the Easter theme) false hopes in his article. The admins will have budgeted on making it to the end of the season. That was the whole point of the player negotiations.

Jobbies

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2012/04...6908-23810233/

Caution.... like they used with Craigy

[PatHead]

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I think this might be one.

Thanks. Hope you use it wisely.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Jobbies

Patience. It just extends the period of pain

[jgl07]

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If this happened I assume Rangers could not see out the season and our win in Inverness wasn't worth a sook. I also assume it would mean 5 teams in the bottom half of the league and all their (Rangers) results wiped out.

Not if they complete the pre-split fixtures. The Results involving Rangers could stand.

The the bottom-six would presumably play out the season. The top-six (now five) would play one less match.

Rangers will be liquidated but not before the end of the season.

[Peevemor]

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I think P MacG is raising (to continue with the Easter theme) false hopes in his article. The admins will have budgeted on making it to the end of the season. That was the whole point of the player negotiations.

But if they lose the tax case, when might they be forced into liquidation? If they're still losing money despite the pay cuts, surely HMRC won't allow this to continue.