Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Andy74]

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Ticketus says "that'll be ****** right!":

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/west-cen...n-ticket-deal/

Can't administrators just cancel Season Tickets though so they are in the same position as supporters and its tough? If its not laon its a straight purchase of something that can't be honourded in administration.

[BarneyK]

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Fair point. If they are suggesting the £24 was their then that also would be them admitting that they are due to pay ticketus out in STs for the next 4 years.

They surely couldn't have a claim on that cash and deny Rangers had any part in the Ticketus arrangement?

Of course it may prove not to be the Ticketus cash, merely some other random sum these thieving tinks feel entitled to.

[Spike Mandela]

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Ticketus says "that'll be ****** right!":

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/west-cen...n-ticket-deal/

I am officially a Ticketus supporter!

[CropleyWasGod]

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Ticketus says "that'll be ****** right!":

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/west-cen...n-ticket-deal/

Brilliant

I like this bit:-

The firm, which has long experience in deals with football clubs in severe financial difficulty, believes that the arrangement would stand regardless of whether Rangers’ assets are sold to a new company and the old one liquidated.

Whether or not that bit is true, it's put a smile on my face.

Whatever way it goes, the fact that legal arguments are in train only serves to delay matters even longer. Which will put off the Knights. Which will hasten boom-time.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Can't administrators just cancel Season Tickets though so they are in the same position as supporters and its tough? If its not laon its a straight purchase of something that can't be honourded in administration.

These are season tickets for future seasons, which aren't "live" yet. The administration better not last that long... I have a business to run.

[johnrebus]

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Ticketus says "that'll be ****** right!":

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/west-cen...n-ticket-deal/

Don't see that Ticketus have a leg to stand on.

If, as previously reported, they gave the dosh to Craig Whyte (or his company Wavetower) BEFORE Whytey actually bought Rangers, then how can the deal be with Rangers?

[Caversham Green]

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Was the Ticketus money not paid into Whyte's Lawyers client account (the original £18 million ) to show SDM he had the funds to pay off Lloyds Bank. Only after that was the £1 sale of Rangers made and then the deal for the sale of future season tickets crystallized.It was some days after the take over that Lloyds were paid.

The second sale of future season tickets took place weeks after Whyte moved in and must be Rangers F C 's liability.

That's where I am with it all. I think D&P are relying on the argument that CW wasn't competent to sign off future ticket sales, but the deals were ultimately done by the holding company that owned RFC by the time it was finalised so that argument doesn't appear valid. Ticketus' problem arises if and when RFC finally slide over the P-trap.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Don't see that Ticketus have a leg to stand on.

If, as previously reported, they gave the dosh to Craig Whyte (or his company Wavetower) BEFORE Whytey actually bought Rangers, then how can the deal be with Rangers?

One would assume that Ticketus had their lawyers examine the contract.

Or else, .....re-read the first line of your post there, and think who else might be in that same predicament.

[BarneyK]

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Don't see that Ticketus have a leg to stand on.

If, as previously reported, they gave the dosh to Craig Whyte (or his company Wavetower) BEFORE Whytey actually bought Rangers, then how can the deal be with Rangers?

Sure I read somewhere that the deal was arranged pre-takeover but the money was held in an account, not to be released to Whyte until after the takeover had been concluded. Don't know if this would make a difference...

[Newry Hibs]

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<rewinding a bit>

If the admins thought that, by selling the assets, they were maximising the return to the creditors, they would be doing their job properly. In normal situations, though, the company as a whole is normally worth more than the underlying assets. I did say "normal"!!

HMRC can object to the CVA .... in effect that is stopping the company coming out of admin. The prevailing winds, albeit non-specialist journos, are telling us that HMRC won't be objecting.

OK - thanks for that. So if there just happened to be some people in Glasgow who had some cash and wanted to set up a brand new football club (that was called, say, RFC2 and played in blue and white) then they might be interested in buying the assets of a struggling SPL team. So the HMRC (and others) get their money (not including the BTC?) and everyone is happy.

This new RFC2 club then has a stadium and players and no debt (andhopefully money to pay future wages and tax) - just needing somewhere to play. Now if only there was a vacany in a top flight league ....

[johnrebus]

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Brilliant

I like this bit:-

The firm, which has long experience in deals with football clubs in severe financial difficulty, believes that the arrangement would stand regardless of whether Rangers’ assets are sold to a new company and the old one liquidated.

Whether or not that bit is true, it's put a smile on my face.

Whatever way it goes, the fact that legal arguments are in train only serves to delay matters even longer. Which will put off the Knights. Which will hasten boom-time.

And what sort of fee will Duff & Whelks be picking up every day for their services?

But, I'm sure, as professional people, this thought will be farthest from their minds.

[johnrebus]

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One would assume that Ticketus had their lawyers examine the contract.

Or else, .....re-read the first line of your post there, and think who else might be in that same predicament.

You Sir, are a bad man.......,

[CropleyWasGod]

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OK - thanks for that. So if there just happened to be some people in Glasgow who had some cash and wanted to set up a brand new football club (that was called, say, RFC2 and played in blue and white) then they might be interested in buying the assets of a struggling SPL team. So the HMRC (and others) get their money (not including the BTC?) and everyone is happy.

This new RFC2 club then has a stadium and players and no debt (andhopefully money to pay future wages and tax) - just needing somewhere to play. Now if only there was a vacany in a top flight league ....

Events of the last 5 minutes have overtaken us!

Ticketus reckon they would have a toe-hold in RFC2, so there's half your season-ticket cash for the next 4 years gone already.

[CropleyWasGod]

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You Sir, are a bad man.......,

Bad taste, sure, but I remain convinced that SDM must have known.

[Caversham Green]

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Don't see that Ticketus have a leg to stand on.

If, as previously reported, they gave the dosh to Craig Whyte (or his company Wavetower) BEFORE Whytey actually bought Rangers, then how can the deal be with Rangers?

I suspect what happened was that the money was put in an escrow account (as described much earlier on this thread, but I forget by who) and only passed to CW (or more accurately the holding company) after he had handed over his shiny pound coin to Sir Dave (who of course was totally oblivious to what was happening).

[johnrebus]

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I suspect what happened was that the money was put in an escrow account (as described much earlier on this thread, but I forget by who) and only passed to CW (or more accurately the holding company) after he had handed over his shiny pound coin to Sir Dave (who of course was totally oblivious to what was happening).

I can see the lawyers arguing the point of principal - er.., no, silly me - point of law, as to who the deal was with, whether Whyte actually had the money in his possession or not.

He - Whyte - did the deal, not Rangers.

[StevieC]

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Don't see that Ticketus have a leg to stand on.

If, as previously reported, they gave the dosh to Craig Whyte (or his company Wavetower) BEFORE Whytey actually bought Rangers, then how can the deal be with Rangers?

I'm sure that they placed the money with his solicitor but CW never actually received the money until he was the owner of RFC. If CW had not managed to become owner then the money would have been taken back from the solicitors account.

On the Ticketus deal though ..

Apart from it looking like they get season tickets for about £250 a pop

What if RFC/NewCo end up in division 3? Will they still be able to charge £400-£500 a season ticket? Can't see many Huns buying into that?

[CropleyWasGod]

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I can see the lawyers arguing the point of principal - er.., no, silly me - point of law, as to who the deal was with, whether Whyte actually had the money in his possession or not.

He - Whyte - did the deal, not Rangers.

...at which point, CW reveals his evidence that SDM knew about it.

[jgl07]

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I'm sure that they placed the money with his solicitor but CW never actually received the money until he was the owner of RFC. If CW had not managed to become owner then the money would have been taken back from the solicitors account.

On the Ticketus deal though ..

Apart from it looking like they get season tickets for about £250 a pop

What if RFC/NewCo end up in division 3? Will they still be able to charge £400-£500 a season ticket? Can't see many Huns buying into that?

Especially if they are playing at Broadwood!

[johnrebus]

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Especially if they are playing at Broadwood!

I prefer the thought of Rangers playing at Elgin.


Huns at the pillbox has a certain ring to it, no?

[blindsummit]

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One would assume that Ticketus had their lawyers examine the contract.

Or else, .....re-read the first line of your post there, and think who else might be in that same predicament.

ooh you are awful

[green glory]

We've had yesterday's statement from the SFA, but we still have the SPL's statement to come (not sure when?). This will be dealing with the dual contracts which are alleged to have taken place. If they are found guilty, then sanctions will follow. If the SPL don't impose sanctions which are acceptable to the other SPL member clubs, can the other clubs walk away from the SPL? Clearly next weeks meeting of the "gang of ten" isn't for the benefit of either half of the OF.

Is it looking like the other the clubs will be imposing changes, ie revenue distribution and the voting structure in return for letting the OF remain in the SPL, or maybe even dissolving the SPL and setting up a new league structure?

[jgl07]

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BBC Sport Chris McLaughlin
"Negotiations continue at Murray Park over wording of wage cut agreement. 3 month deal but ripped up if #Rangers come out of administration."

They are either operating at a £1million loss per month or they're not. Why would they go back to full wage once out of Administration, wouldn't they just go back to losing fortunes every month? Getting too confusing for me now, this business.

It is assumed this will buy the time to get to the end of the season and the opening of the transfer window when the likes of Whittakar and Wallace will be moved on.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I'm sure that they placed the money with his solicitor but CW never actually received the money until he was the owner of RFC. If CW had not managed to become owner then the money would have been taken back from the solicitors account.

On the Ticketus deal though ..

Apart from it looking like they get season tickets for about £250 a pop

What if RFC/NewCo end up in division 3? Will they still be able to charge £400-£500 a season ticket? Can't see many Huns buying into that?

Welllll... investments can go down as well as up. Ticketus have, in effect, invested in RFC's future. If the market won't stand ST's at £400, then their investors won't get as much return as they thought they would.

The Ticketus website does claim to get that level of return, by the way. Who said you can't get a good return for your money these days?

[CropleyWasGod]

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ooh you are awful

***ake, Dick's back....

[Seveno]

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D & P seem confident of getting out of Ticketus deal but they still have their Lloyds debt paid off. Rangers don't think they are liable to anyone for the £18m This is like someone breaking in to your house and paying all your bills.

I love that ! Not even yamanomics could come up with that one.

[jgl07]

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Welllll... investments can go down as well as up. Ticketus have, in effect, invested in RFC's future. If the market won't stand ST's at £400, then their investors won't get as much return as they thought they would.

But they have only paid £250 a ticket. I am sure that some would pay £300 plus for a Rangers season ticket if they were playing in the West of Scotland All-Priests Five-a-Side Over-75 Indoor Football League.

[Seveno]

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Bad taste, sure, but I remain convinced that SDM must have known.

Fat Jim probably knew as well.

[CropleyWasGod]

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But they have only paid £250 a ticket. I am sure that some would pay £300 plus for a Rangers season ticket if they were playing in the West of Scotland All-Priests Five-a-Side Over-75 Indoor Football League.

Sure, but the point I'm making is that the investors would have expected an almost 100% return, less of course Ticketus' own cut.

In your scenario, that's "only" 20%.

Bloody good return all the same. You got their number?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Fat Jim probably knew as well.

And Big Jock.