Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[greenginger]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I think you're missing my point. You had asked about the hypothetical situation of Hibs being in DAFC's position.

Part of financial management is risk assessment. Hearts and Rangers' financial problems were well-known, and had been for a long time. In RFC's case, administration had been talked about for a while.

When Hearts came to call in January, we assessed the risk of not getting paid, and decided that one did exist. So we sold Hearts fans their tickets. Presumably, DAFC (and United) went through that same process, and decided that the risk was not that great. In hindsight, a poor decision.

Whilst DUFC and DAFC deserve a lot of sympathy, they also should take part of the blame. It's in situations like this that we should be thankful for the Board we have.

And, it was £80k DAFC lost out on, not £200k

Was Dundee United's problem not arise with their share of the Scottish Cup tie at Ibrox. It was Rangers game so not much United could do to avoid a risk.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Was Dundee United's problem not arise with their share of the Scottish Cup tie at Ibrox. It was Rangers game so not much United could do to avoid a risk.

Ah ok, hadn't realised that. They can escape my Sunday grumps then.

They should still have taken out insurance against being drawn away against a financial car crash!!!

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

All raises the spectre of fraudulent misrepresentation.

So, in your opininion, who sues who here?

Ticketus sue the insurance company if they don't pay out?

Ticketus sue RFC for the misrepresentation?

Ticketus sue CW for taking on the deal when he wasn't, at that time, RFC?

The insurance company sue RFC? PLEASE!!

[Seveno]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

So, in your opininion, who sues who here?

Ticketus sue the insurance company if they don't pay out?

Ticketus sue RFC for the misrepresentation?

Ticketus sue CW for taking on the deal when he wasn't, at that time, RFC?

The insurance company sue RFC? PLEASE!!

First thing that I would expect is that the insurers don't pay out and effectively challenge Ticketus to take them to court.

There are sufficient grounds for suspicion that there was some form of collusion in the whole deal.

[Seveno]

The more that comes out, the more that I am convinced that Whyte is just a stooge, sent in to drive Rangers into Liquidation. Leaving Rangers FC behind, along with all the debts, a newco is formed and Whyte's 'employer' steps in to buy the assets, sell off whatever is necessary to fund the purchase and then invest in the playing squad.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

First thing that I would expect is that the insurers don't pay out and effectively challenge Ticketus to take them to court.

There are sufficient grounds for suspicion that there was some form of collusion in the whole deal.

Ah, the C word.

I mentioned, hunners of pages ago, that I thought David Murray must have known what CW was up to. The media have stayed away from such accusations, for lots of reasons. However, what you say just makes me even more convinced.

[CentreLine]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Dont forget CWG if the fixture list was different it could be us waiting for a wedge from them, wonder how Rod and this message board would have reacted ,not best pleased .

Do you think George Pleat and his emergency fund of £5/6 Million should be used to ease the burden that Dunfermline are going through and pay them the £80,000 also Dun Utd theyre £100,000 it was on theyre watch sort of thing ,, finances put aside should be forthcoming and sorted out at the conclusion of
The Rangers Circus IMHO.

Don't think so. When the OF tried to stiff the rest of the SPL clubs by adding a premium to the ticket sales RP refused to allow them to handle our tickets and all ticket sales for OF matches go though our ticket office. Just another case of RP doing the best for our club and fans IMHO but it would certainly have helped if we had played rangers in the recent past home or away. Of course he did the same in respect of hahahahearts and was criticised on this forum because it meant a hike of something like £6 to hahahahearts fans for handling fees.

[SteveHFC]

Apparently these are the players that will be released:

papac
mculloch
bocanegro
alexander
healy
wylde
wallace
alluko
kerkar
perry
little
hemming
mccabe
mitchell
gallagher

Would take Wylde off them.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Apparently these are the players that will be released:

papac
mculloch
bocanegro
alexander
healy
wylde
wallace
alluko
kerkar
perry
little
hemming
mccabe
mitchell
gallagher

Would take Wylde off them.

Why? Canny play him.

[Spike Mandela]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Apparently these are the players that will be released:

papac
mculloch
bocanegro
alexander
healy
wylde
wallace
alluko
kerkar
perry
little
hemming
mccabe
mitchell
gallagher

Would take Wylde off them.

Where did you get this?

[SteveHFC]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Where did you get this?

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/inde...owtopic=212889

[CyberSauzee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It's on the bears den forum, some have dismissed it as fake.

Must be a fake - either that or Broadfoot had the day off when they did the headcount.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Must be a fake - either that or Broadfoot had the day off when they did the headcount.

Can't see Wylde being on the list either.

[The_Todd]

I wouldn't even bet my jar of pennies I keep in the office on that list being real, blatant fake.

Rangers short term objective is to save £1m a month, all the high earners have to go. Whittaker, McGregor - all of them. Even if they can raise funds by selling them in the summer it'll be no use to them if Rangers are extinct in the summer anyway!

[Twa Cairpets]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Apparently these are the players that will be released:

papac
mculloch
bocanegro
alexander
healy
wylde
wallace
alluko
kerkar
perry
little
hemming
mccabe
mitchell
gallagher

Would take Wylde off them.

IF true, then thats 13 of 16 of their squad yeaterday against their cousins in iniquity. 'Well guaranteed second I'd say, and you'd have to wonder what Celtic will do to the in a few weeks. Cant see Lennon telling his players to take it easy.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I wouldn't even bet my jar of pennies I keep in the office on that list being real, blatant fake.

Rangers short term objective is to save £1m a month, all the high earners have to go. Whittaker, McGregor - all of them. Even if they can raise funds by selling them in the summer it'll be no use to them if Rangers are extinct in the summer anyway!

It's not as simple as just getting rid of the high earners.

It has to be a mixture of high earners/older players/those coming to the end of their contracts.

Also, the admins have to have an eye on the potential sale of the club. They have to keep enough value in the playing squad to make it attractive to a buyer.

[bingo70]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I wouldn't even bet my jar of pennies I keep in the office on that list being real, blatant fake.

Rangers short term objective is to save £1m a month, all the high earners have to go. Whittaker, McGregor - all of them. Even if they can raise funds by selling them in the summer it'll be no use to them if Rangers are extinct in the summer anyway!

Players with massive sell on value like Davis and Mcgregor won't be released, they'll be put on reduced wages or something but there's no way they'd release a player like Mcgregor that could be sold for anything up to £9m (based on what Gordon went for) for nowt when they could make that sort of money in a few months.

[Stonewall]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Players with massive sell on value like Davis and Mcgregor won't be released, they'll be put on reduced wages or something but there's no way they'd release a player like Mcgregor that could be sold for anything up to £9m (based on what Gordon went for) for nowt when they could make that sort of money in a few months.

Except they'll be worth nothing like that as it's known Rangers have to sell: unless they can get an auction going.

[The_Todd]

Normally yes, they'd look to keep some to sell in the summer but Rangers are goosed well and truly. They need to save £1m per month just to survive to May, let alone come out of admin. So again, what is the point in keeping the higher paid players til May to sell them if Rangers FC doesn't even exist come May because they couldn't make the required cuts?

Also, the players won't automatically accept lower wages, they may just happily say "sod that" and leave.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Normally yes, they'd look to keep some to sell in the summer but Rangers are goosed well and truly. They need to save £1m per month just to survive to May, let alone come out of admin. So again, what is the point in keeping the higher paid players til May to sell them if Rangers FC doesn't even exist come May because they couldn't make the required cuts?

Also, the players won't automatically accept lower wages, they may just happily say "sod that" and leave.

You're missing the point.

The admins are not only trying to cut costs, but sell the club on as well.

A club with a few valuable players is going to attract a higher price than one full of untried youngsters.

[bingo70]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Normally yes, they'd look to keep some to sell in the summer but Rangers are goosed well and truly. They need to save £1m per month just to survive to May, let alone come out of admin. So again, what is the point in keeping the higher paid players til May to sell them if Rangers FC doesn't even exist come May because they couldn't make the required cuts?

Also, the players won't automatically accept lower wages, they may just happily say "sod that" and leave.

Maybe so, however i'm still certain they won't release players like Mcgregor and Davis, how they get around it and make the money back i don't know but i'm just sure they won't be releasing them.

we'll find out tomorrow of course and if i'm wrong i'll hold my hands up but i don't think i will be.

[jgl07]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It's not as simple as just getting rid of the high earners.

It has to be a mixture of high earners/older players/those coming to the end of their contracts.

Also, the admins have to have an eye on the potential sale of the club. They have to keep enough value in the playing squad to make it attractive to a buyer.

This is all bit academic. Where is this 'buyer' going to come from? Whyte will not back down, neither will HMRC or Ticketus. Murray couldn't give the club away before all this hit, so why should Rangers suddenly become a something worth purchasing?

If, or rather when, Rangers lose the Big Tax case, the game will be up and insolvency will be inevitable.

I suspect that the redundancies will include those not prepared to take a big pay cut.

The Administrators will also be trying to put out a competitive team to keep the walk up fans coming in or they will not make the end of the season.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This is all bit academic. Where is this 'buyer' going to come from? Whyte will not back down, neither will HMRC or Ticketus. Murray couldn't give the club away before all this hit, so why should Rangers suddenly become a something worth purchasing?

If, or rather when, Rangers lose the Big Tax case, the game will be up and insolvency will be inevitable.

I suspect that the redundancies will include those not prepared to take a big pay cut.

The Administrators will also be trying to put out a competitive team to keep the walk up fans coming in or they will not make the end of the season.

Whilst I agree that no-one with sense would buy the club as it is, the fact remains that there are potential buyers out there. The admins have been talking to them. They would be failing in their duty if they didn't at least try to make the club more attractive for a buyer.

Once the 16th March comes and goes, if there is no serious activity on the selling front, I suspect we might see more redundancies.

[The_Todd]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

You're missing the point.

The admins are not only trying to cut costs, but sell the club on as well.

A club with a few valuable players is going to attract a higher price than one full of untried youngsters.

You're right, I suppose. But they have to figure out what's more important and what will come first? Finding a new buyer in the long term, or even having a club to sell to begin with. It's a tough job those administrators have got, and I don't envy them - unless they get to announce liquidation and then I'd be very envious of them

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

You're right, I suppose. But they have to figure out what's more important and what will come first? Finding a new buyer in the long term, or even having a club to sell to begin with. It's a tough job those administrators have got, and I don't envy them - unless they get to announce liquidation and then I'd be very envious of them

It's a balancing act...... I don't envy them either, even at £600 per hour.

[aljo7-0]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It's a balancing act...... I don't envy them either, even at £600 per hour.

At those rates you really would take your time thinking about matters. No point in rushing into decisions (well not as long as there is any money left in the kitty anyway)

[ancient hibee]

Ticketus will be insured and the insurance company will then lay the liability off with other insurance companies-that's the way the market works.

I suspect that all the highest earners will be given the chance to go-as I understand it if anyone is given the option of reduced wages it generates the right to go anyway.


A standard security must be registered at the Register of Sasines otherwise it has no effect.

[jgl07]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Whilst I agree that no-one with sense would buy the club as it is, the fact remains that there are potential buyers out there. The admins have been talking to them. They would be failing in their duty if they didn't at least try to make the club more attractive for a buyer.

The reason that no buyer was forthcoming for Rangers was that there were two tax disputes hanging over Rangers to a total amount of over £53 million. Add in the £18 million due to Lloyds Bank group and the fact that Rangers were hemorrhaging millions each year thanks to a dubious financial model and it is clear why no-one credible would touch the club with a bargepole.

The £18 million due to Lloyds s no longer there but there is £24 million due to Ticketus. The tax bill has been increased by £15 million since Whyte took over and could be as high as £75 million.

The tax cases need to be won (unlikely) and also the Ticketus deal would have to be avoided (dubious) but even then the only way that Rangers will ever be sold is if there is a CVA. And HMRC are not going to fall for that one.

Some realism is needed here. The administrators should attempt to keep Rangers going until the end of the season before an orderly liquidation and the creation of a phoenix company and an applcation to the SFL for next season.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The reason that no buyer was forthcoming for Rangers was that there were two tax disputes hanging over Rangers to a total amount of over £53 million. Add in the £18 million due to Lloyds Bank group and the fact that Rangers were hemorrhaging millions each year thanks to a dubious financial model and it is clear why no-one credible would touch the club with a bargepole.

The £18 million due to Lloyds s no longer there but there is £24 million due to Ticketus. The tax bill has been increased by £15 million since Whyte took over and could be as high as £75 million.

The tax cases need to be won (unlikely) and also the Ticketus deal would have to be avoided (dubious) but even then the only way that Rangers will ever be sold is if there is a CVA. And HMRC are not going to fall for that one.

Some realism is needed here. The administrators should attempt to keep Rangers going until the end of the season before an orderly liquidation and the creation of a phoenix company and an applcation to the SFL for next season.

I think you're missing my point. There ARE people out there who are interested in buying RFC... Paul Murray for one. Whilst they remain, the admins must consider them.

I am sure they know, as you and I do, that a sale is unlikely, hence the 16th March deadline.

[PaulSmith]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I think you're missing my point. There ARE people out there who are interested in buying RFC... Paul Murray for one. Whilst they remain, the admins must consider them.

I am sure they know, as you and I do, that a sale is unlikely, hence the 16th March deadline.

Paul Murray, all he's doing is trying to get a consortium together. Absolutely no danger he has anywhere near the financial clout to be considered.
Any deal of his will either be backed by bringing in more debt or he'll need to convince several investors to take a huge gamble akin to giving Greece a loan