Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Viva_Palmeiras]

The Dons fans have taken a compassionate view on things as you'd expect
Should never turn down revenue generating opportunities I suppose.

http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tno=4&fid=27&act=1&mid=2115223092

[Onion]

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I hope they go into liquidation, I hope Hearts do too.

Why?

Because they seem to think they can spend money they haven't got without any consequence. Well there has to be a consequence, if that means Rangers or Hearts go down to third division then so be it.

They cannot and should not be allowed any favours.

Sky Sports news on the day the Rangers news broke....on the ticker at the bottom......Rangers go into administration........Rangers bring in Daniel Cusin....you really couldn't make this **** up!

Hearts..bring in Craig Beattie!! WTF is going on, is nobody learning any lessons here? Punishments need meated out and no just a mere 10 points either. RANT OVER!

With the Huns on the way out, Vlad might see this as an opportunity to spend money he doesn't have as 2nd place and CL footie will be assured for anyone with a bit of drive/ambition. Don't expect Petrie and the Hibs Board to spot any opportunities from the Huns demise - just a loss of revenue

[lucky]

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With the Huns on the way out, Vlad might see this as an opportunity to spend money he doesn't have as 2nd place and CL footie will be assured for anyone with a bit of drive/ambition. Don't expect Petrie and the Hibs Board to spot any opportunities from the Huns demise - just a loss of revenue

I really hope your wrong but it would not surprise me if Vlad started wasting more money on the inbreeds, that's assuming he has got it.

[SteveHFC]

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The Dons fans have taken a compassionate view on things as you'd expect
Should never turn down revenue generating opportunities I suppose.

http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tno=4&fid=27&act=1&mid=2115223092

This should be a party held at every ground in Scotland

[CropleyWasGod]

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You don't need to be a lender to get a security, liquidation was always a likely outcome so I would be surprised if the deal was done without some sort of back-up. There would be no necessity to record the security and Ticketus might be playing their cards close to see how things pan out.

I was under the impression that all securities and charges needed to be recorded at Companies House.

Like I say, the back-up is the insurance and, if it exists, the CW underwriting.

[southern hibby]

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yet this 'honourable' action will not be extended to dundee utd ? indeed , they want to boycott tannadice, honourable ?? pppfffffffftt

Not sure why they are taking this stance with Dundee utd. However kids have to learn to walk before they can run. For the record I can't stand them, with their we are the people shi**y attitude but if some fans did turn up then I do feel it's an honourable gesture. Still hope their team dies though. GGTTH

[Hibernia&Alba]

I heard Jim Traynor tonight say something about March 16th being the end game for them. What's this then?

[SteveHFC]

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I heard Jim Traynor tonight say something about March 16th being the end game for them. What's this then?

That could be a great weekend. Rangers going into liquidation and the Hibees beating Hearts in the Derby

[CropleyWasGod]

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I heard Jim Traynor tonight say something about March 16th being the end game for them. What's this then?

That's the deadline that has been set by the admins for offers to buy the club.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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That's the deadline that has been set by the admins for offers to buy the club.

Oh ok, and what if that doesn't happen?

[Billy Whizz]

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Oh ok, and what if that doesn't happen?

Peter Lawell may put in a bid to merge Celtic and Rangers.
Where have we heard this sort of thing before

[CropleyWasGod]

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Oh ok, and what if that doesn't happen?

I suspect it's a tool to try and push people to make offers. Personally, I think it would be daft for anyone to make an offer before the result of the Big Tax Case is in.

If there are no offers, the next move would be to try and get the creditors to agree on a Creditors' Voluntary Arrangement, which basically is an agreement that those who are owed money get x pence in the £. They need 75% of creditors (in value) to agree to that. HMRC are one of the biggest creditors, and it's their policy not to agree to CVA's. (despite what Traynor was saying on the radio this afternoon).

They will keep at that process until there's clearly no hope of it happening. By then, the BTC result will probably be known. If it's favourable to RFC, the admins will re-start the sale process. If it's not, it's goodnight.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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I suspect it's a tool to try and push people to make offers. Personally, I think it would be daft for anyone to make an offer before the result of the Big Tax Case is in.

If there are no offers, the next move would be to try and get the creditors to agree on a Creditors' Voluntary Arrangement, which basically is an agreement that those who are owed money get x pence in the £. They need 75% of creditors (in value) to agree to that. HMRC are one of the biggest creditors, and it's their policy not to agree to CVA's. (despite what Traynor was saying on the radio this afternoon).

They will keep at that process until there's clearly no hope of it happening. By then, the BTC result will probably be known. If it's favourable to RFC, the admins will re-start the sale process. If it's not, it's goodnight.

Thanks for the insight, CWG. You've been a big help to those of us who know little or nothing about administration/insolvency/financial shennanigans.

In relation to the CVA, are HMRC only one of the biggest creditors if Rangers lose the big tax case of circa £49 million, or whatever the amount is? If Rangers win that case, isn't Craig Whyte the biggest creditor due to the whole one pound he put in?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Thanks for the insight, CWG. You've been a big help to those of us who know little or nothing about administration/insolvency/financial shennanigans.

In relation to the CVA, are HMRC only one of the biggest creditors if Rangers lose the big tax case of circa £49 million, or whatever the amount is? If Rangers win that case, isn't Craig Whyte the biggest creditor due to the whole one pound he put in?

Cheers.. just remember I'm only one page ahead of you in the book

HMRC are already due £15m, just for the period since CW took over, for unpaid PAYE and VAT. That stands, irrespective of the BTC. If RFC win that, the £15m is still due.

The reason I say "one of the biggest creditors" is because I am not sure how Ticketus stand in the administration. Some on here reckon they are due the full £24m, but I think they are only due what is currently payable, about £6m. My view is that the full £24m only comes into play in the event of liquidation.... but I am really not sure about that.

As for Craigy.....if everyone was to get paid in full, he would be at the tail end of the queue, and would get a nice shiny pound.

[StevieC]

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That's the deadline that has been set by the admins for offers to buy the club.

Do you reckon that deadline is to give them 2 weeks to get a CVA sorted and get them out of administration in time for Eurpopean deadline, or have they resigned themselves to missing out on Europe next season?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Do you reckon that deadline is to give them 2 weeks to get a CVA sorted and get them out of administration in time for Eurpopean deadline, or have they resigned themselves to missing out on Europe next season?

I reckon all the smart minds have written off Europe.

Isn't the 31 March deadline about the accounts, though? If they're not with the SFA by then, then Europe is a no-go.

In any event, I can't see a CVA being sorted out in two weeks. HMRC will block it, and then block it again...etc etc.

[PatHead]

According to the radio they almost got a sell out today. The full house signs didn't last long then. So much for the fans getting behind the club. Sooner they die the better.

[SteveHFC]

Courtesy of Desperate Dan

[Hibernia&Alba]

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Cheers.. just remember I'm only one page ahead of you in the book

HMRC are already due £15m, just for the period since CW took over, for unpaid PAYE and VAT. That stands, irrespective of the BTC. If RFC win that, the £15m is still due.

The reason I say "one of the biggest creditors" is because I am not sure how Ticketus stand in the administration. Some on here reckon they are due the full £24m, but I think they are only due what is currently payable, about £6m. My view is that the full £24m only comes into play in the event of liquidation.... but I am really not sure about that.

As for Craigy.....if everyone was to get paid in full, he would be at the tail end of the queue, and would get a nice shiny pound.

Aye of course, the unpaid PAYE and NI since Whyte took over. Now if they require the agreement of 75% of creditors (notwithstanding the BTC) for a CVA, and assuming HMRC won't agree to one, that means they need approx £40 - £60 million (depending on the amount of unpaid tax post-Whyte) of other creditors to possibly get their CVA. This is impossible. So, they plough on until the BTC judgment, and either stay in administration until they win it, or liquidate if they lose it. Is that right?

[CropleyWasGod]

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According to the radio they almost got a sell out today. The full house signs didn't last long then. So much for the fans getting behind the club. Sooner they die the better.

Today was always going to be the beginning of the end, IMO. Their last home game (and big pay day)for a few weeks.

If all had gone to plan, and the redundancies had been decided this week, today would have been the chance for the fans to say cheerio to the sacked players.

The next home game is against Celtic, who might be able to win the League that day. It will either be one last show of defiance from the Bears, or else there will be no one there except the Tims!!

[greenginger]

Lets not forget our friends over at the PBS. The Yams accounts have not appeared yet, and if they do appear before March 31st and they are in a league position to get into Europe, would the previous restriction on the accounts be an obstacle to getting a Euro Licence or will Mad Vlad be forced to open up the U B I G books. ?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Aye of course, the unpaid PAYE and NI since Whyte took over. Now if they require the agreement of 75% of creditors (notwithstanding the BTC) for a CVA, and assuming HMRC won't agree to one, that means they need approx £40 - £60 million (depending on the amount of unpaid tax post-Whyte) of other creditors to possibly get their CVA. This is impossible. So, they plough on until the BTC judgment, and either stay in administration until they win it, or liquidate if they lose it. Is that right?

Yup... that's the state of play just now. The only variables I can see just now are:-

1. HMRC changing their policy of not agreeing to CVA's. That would have enormous consequences throughout the economy.

2. someone with more money than sense riding in on a white horse, singing the Sash, and rattling a biscuit tin with 100 million gold pieces in it.

[Seveno]

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Only in the event of liquidation. While the administration continues, the only liability would be for any repayments that are currently due.

I also understand that Ticketus have insurance in place that would cover their outlay in the event of liquidation.

I doubt that Ticketus have insurance in the event of default due to the liquidation of Rangers. No credit insurer would give cover on a business in that level of debt.

Contingency insurers might give cover against the reduction in the future sales of ST's based on previous history but that would be no use if Rangers just went bust and ceased to exist.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Lets not forget our friends over at the PBS. The Yams accounts have not appeared yet, and if they do appear before March 31st and they are in a league position to get into Europe, would the previous restriction on the accounts be an obstacle to getting a Euro Licence or will Mad Vlad be forced to open up the U B I G books. ?

As things stand, I think they only need to submit accounts. I don't think it matters what the accounts, or the auditors' report, say.

However, Doncaster was saying today that they are having a meeting on Monday to discuss the implementation of Financial Fair Play rules within the SPL/SFA. These would broadly reflect UEFA's rules, I reckon, but I don't think they would affect Hearts ability to play in Europe next season.

[Fat Penlon]

Anyone know if hearts will have their accounts signed off by 31 march? Someone on here thought the auditors may have a problem this time if i remember correctly?

[CropleyWasGod]

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I doubt that Ticketus have insurance in the event of event due to the liquidation of Rangers. No credit insurer would give cover on a business in that level of debt.

Contingency insurers might give cover against the reduction in the future sales of ST's based on previous history but that would be no use if Rangers just went bust and ceased to exist.

I am no insurer, but about 30 pages ago, there was a discussion on this point. The conclusion seemed to be that yes, it was insurable. PatHead is the man to tell you.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Anyone know if hearts will have their accounts signed off by 31 march? Someone on here thought the auditors may have a problem this time if i remember correctly?

A problem this time????

They have a problem every frickin year.....

I can't see the auditors having any report other than last year's, which, IIRC, said that they couldn't establish whether HMFC were a going concern.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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Yup... that's the state of play just now. The only variables I can see just now are:-

1. HMRC changing their policy of not agreeing to CVA's. That would have enormous consequences throughout the economy.

2. someone with more money than sense riding in on a white horse, singing the Sash, and rattling a biscuit tin with 100 million gold pieces in it.

And with the BTC hanging over them, who would do this? You know what all this adds up to, CWG..............

[Seveno]

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I am no insurer, but about 30 pages ago, there was a discussion on this point. The conclusion seemed to be that yes, it was insurable. PatHead is the man to tell you.

It's my specialist subject, Magnus.

[grunt]

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Anyone know if hearts will have their accounts signed off by 31 march? Someone on here thought the auditors may have a problem this time if i remember correctly?

They were signed on 31 March last year, I expect they will want to achieve that deadline again this year. How difficult it will be for the auditors to sign will depend on how much credence they give to Vlad's announcement that he was no longer going to fund them in future. I expect that if they believe him, it will be difficult for them to agree that HMFC are a going concern. I guess much will also depend on whether Vlad gifts them a further "forgiveness of debt " to allow them to report a small profit, like the £8m he forgave last year.