Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[StevieC]

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What I would argue is that it shouldn't be a question of figures of current TV earnings and current attendance, but rather a question of how Hibs would be relative to the other SPL teams.

I would think that relative to other teams that Hibs would be better placed without a TV deal due to the average size of crowd.

However, that seems a slightly selfish approach to decision making and we should not be looking to gain advantages over others but looking towards making a more competitive league with teams on a more even keel.

[GreenPJ]

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From the bits on this thread i've looked at I can see two prevailing arguments. 1. That Hibs benefit more from the TV deal than if it wasn't there and 2. Hibs would benefit more or equally from no tv games and increased walk ups. What I would argue is that it shouldn't be a question of figures of current TV earnings and current attendance, but rather a question of how Hibs would be relative to the other SPL teams. For example, Hibs may lose 1.2 million a season from the TV deal, but so would every other SPL side. What we need is someone who can work out how the removal of Rangers and the TV deal would impact on Hibs in comparison to other SPL sides. Then we make a decision based on that. Part of me wants Rangers to die and never return, but the other part thinks what if keeping Rangers in the SPL actually benefits Hibs in comparison to the other sides. Are we better placed, or worse placed, than the other sides to handle life after Rangers? If anyone has any formula to work it out then throw it into the mix!

People seem to be forgetting that all clubs, most worse than us, have debt to service now. Its all well and good saying income will reduce and so costs will have to be cut but the debt that exists now does not disappear and banks want their money back now more so than ever. This is the part where we may be better than others but does it really do us any good if you have clubs like Dundee Utd or Killie whose current debt becomes unserviceable and may have to enter administration themselves.

[Andy74]

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Failed on the no1 benchmark (IMHO) then. Nae bonus fully merited

He was allocated 60% of his total entitlement.

[pentlando]

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People seem to be forgetting that all clubs, most worse than us, have debt to service now. Its all well and good saying income will reduce and so costs will have to be cut but the debt that exists now does not disappear and banks want their money back now more so than ever. This is the part where we may be better than others but does it really do us any good if you have clubs like Dundee Utd or Killie whose current debt becomes unserviceable and may have to enter administration themselves.

True and clubs will have to cut their cloth accordingly. Clubs with bigger debt will have to make bigger cuts, which probably bodes well for Hibs with our significantly reduced debt compared to previous years, but we must remember that our last two January signing sprees and poor performances must have hit us in the pocket too. Therefore the potential demise of Rangers could go two ways. It could force clubs to wake up and smell the coffee, with a club the size of Rangers going busts other clubs may redouble their debt servicing measures. Or it could actually force these clubs further down, with the lack of up to 8,000 away fans per annum paying top whack for tickets when Rangers play. We would inevitably lose out on co-efficients with less success in Europe meaning more early season qualifiers and less chance of getting to group stages/1st rounds etc. The whole thing is a bit guessing game, the only way we'll know for sure is when it actually happens.

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I would think that relative to other teams that Hibs would be better placed without a TV deal due to the average size of crowd.

However, that seems a slightly selfish approach to decision making and we should not be looking to gain advantages over others but looking towards making a more competitive league with teams on a more even keel.

I'm all for change in the Scottish game, even if it doesn't directly benefit Hibs. However should we be pressing for change if it might disproportionately impact Hibs. As you say, we might have one of the higher average attendances and best quality stadium and training centre. But we also have higher outgoings on maintenance of our infrastructure and a higher wage output than most too. Surely if the Scottish game's finances was to nosedive we'd be quite at risk due to our higher than average expenditure?

[tamig]

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He was allocated 60% of his total entitlement.

Indeed. Other measures were also in place.

[BurghHibby]

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If Sky want to pull out of the T V deal because of a shortage of Bigot-fests let them.

What Scottish Football needs is a decent TV deal with the BBC providing a good quality highlights program and a set number of live games in a season.

At the moment the BBC spends about one hundredth of the cash on Scottish Football than it does on the block coverage given to all aspects of the game in England.

10% of the License Fee money comes from Scotland and the SPL and politicians eager to gain some credibility from footballs current problems should be raising this inequality with the BBC.

Spot on, I've been advocating this for years, Sportscene relegated to late Sunday nights or whenever there's an inconvenient slot to fill in and really crap coverage at that.
Consider what the BBC spent on last years F1 coverage for what is basically a minority sport (although I do like it) in comparison to football in this country.
The SPL should demand at least 10% of what the BBC spend on the EPL, same with the SFL re the football league coverage.

[pentlando]

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Spot on, I've been advocating this for years, Sportscene relegated to late Sunday nights or whenever there's an inconvenient slot to fill in and really crap coverage at that.
Consider what the BBC spent on last years F1 coverage for what is basically a minority sport (although I do like it) in comparison to football in this country.
The SPL should demand at least 10% of what the BBC spend on the EPL, same with the SFL re the football league coverage.

Or alternatively a collapse of the SKY deal could mean a chance to get the SPL TV channel going. I like the idea of having a channel dedicated to the SPL, therefore we know that every penny spent towards subscribing to the channel is reinvested straight into our game. It could include one or two live matches per week, at peak times and not just slotted in around EPL matches. A comprehensive highlights package on a Saturday night at prime time. A highlight show of all SFL matches, which would bring the lower leagues back in from the cold. During the week it could re-run all the weekends matches, have daily 10-15 minute features on all clubs previous/upcoming matches etc. At least a proposal for this could force the BBC to pay the going rate and not just pick up the old deal for scraps.

[StevieC]

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I'm all for change in the Scottish game, even if it doesn't directly benefit Hibs. However should we be pressing for change if it might disproportionately impact Hibs.

Yes .. if it's for the benefit of the Scottish game.

Whilst there might be short term disadvantages, through time teams would cut their cloth accordingly and at the end of it you should hopefully have an improved football league.

[IWasThere2016]

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He was allocated 60% of his total entitlement.

Excellent - just as well really as otherwise he'd have joined the hoardes of bankers that have left the UK for China and other far flung countries in search of fully deserving remuneration packages

How are our shares doing btw?

[Andy74]

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Excellent - just as well really as otherwise he'd have joined the hoardes of bankers that have left the UK for China and other far flung countries in search of fully deserving remuneration packages

How are our shares doing btw?

Crap

[Smidge]

We simply cannot be precise about the impact of losing the TV deal vs a potential increase in gate receipts. Any calculations (see below!) are speculation. However, if we assume that there will still be some TV money - I can't believe that Sky/ESPN would pull the plug in the short-term - then I don't think it would be a doomsday scenario for Hibs.

If our share of the commercial revenue from the SPL including, estimated elsewhere on this thread as totalling about £1.2m normally, drops by half then that is a loss of £600k on a turnover of £6-7m. Roughly speaking, let's say its a 10% reduction, which doesn't sound bad in my view, compared to the devastation in the Football League when ITV Digital went bust.

Of course, we wouldn't need to make up just the £600k in lost revenue, there are the gate receipts from a visit by Rangers 1-2 times every season. Being optimistic with last season and this season as the exceptions to recent history, let's say it's 2 visits. At 3500 fans x £26pp x 2, that's additional lost income of £182k.

Rounding it up, that equals say £800k reduction in revenue. At an average of £20pp - walk-ups AND additional STs - and assuming 19 home games a season, we would need an average 2,100 fans in the home end over and above current figures. This would be countered slightly by the income from the other away team that would replace Rangers twice a season at ER.

In a more competitive and family-friendly league, with match scheduling reverting more to traditional times (though there would still be some scheduling changes for TV), I do not think this is out of the question on a medium-term basis. Commercial revenue streams would recover if the league was more competitive in due course.

If a short-term reduction in income is the price for a fair league without Newco Rangers being "rewarded" for their criminal financial doping of the last 14 years or so, then I think it has got to be worth considering!

[HFC 0-7]

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We simply cannot be precise about the impact of losing the TV deal vs a potential increase in gate receipts. Any calculations (see below!) are speculation. However, if we assume that there will still be some TV money - I can't believe that Sky/ESPN would pull the plug in the short-term - then I don't think it would be a doomsday scenario for Hibs.

If our share of the commercial revenue from the SPL including, estimated elsewhere on this thread as totalling about £1.2m normally, drops by half then that is a loss of £600k on a turnover of £6-7m. Roughly speaking, let's say its a 10% reduction, which doesn't sound bad in my view, compared to the devastation in the Football League when ITV Digital went bust.

Of course, we wouldn't need to make up just the £600k in lost revenue, there are the gate receipts from a visit by Rangers 1-2 times every season. Being optimistic with last season and this season as the exceptions to recent history, let's say it's 2 visits. At 3500 fans x £26pp x 2, that's additional lost income of £182k.

Rounding it up, that equals say £800k reduction in revenue. At an average of £20pp - walk-ups AND additional STs - and assuming 19 home games a season, we would need an average 2,100 fans in the home end over and above current figures. This would be countered slightly by the income from the other away team that would replace Rangers twice a season at ER.

In a more competitive and family-friendly league, with match scheduling reverting more to traditional times (though there would still be some scheduling changes for TV), I do not think this is out of the question on a medium-term basis. Commercial revenue streams would recover if the league was more competitive in due course.

If a short-term reduction in income is the price for a fair league without Newco Rangers being "rewarded" for their criminal financial doping of the last 14 years or so, then I think it has got to be worth considering!

We are happy to lose revenue when we are wanting to go down the line of league reconstruction to only playing each other twice a season losing 4 old firm games a season. League reconstruction to only playing twice would lose old firm games and tv revenue as SKY would re negotiate. What is the point of it all if we keep the rich, rich and winning everything, instead of losing a bit of income and making the league more competative for european places etc. The fans constantly moan about lunch time kick offs and the bigots, we may have the chance to sort that out but some people still say we cant cope without them. Money has fallen out of scottish football before and its survived.

[Exiled Hibby]

No tv coverage would probably be a good thing as far as Sparky's concerned.

[MB62]

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My thinking is on the basis of ten SPL clubs being given a huge boost by Rangers being in administration and hopefully eventual liquidation. The psycophantic media believe Sky would withdraw their current SPL agreement if Rangers are kicked out. If that happens the habit of attending matches at 3pm on Saturdays and the realistic possibility of finishing second would boost crowds. I have stopped going to early KO,s. More than likely I am not the only one.The general opinion is that the standard of Scottish football has being going down the plughole. Television has not helped, its time to get back to basics.

You certainly are not. I have stopped going to games that are live on T.V. I cannot justify paying £28 for a game I can watch for free in the house, (or have already paid for with my T.V. deal anyway). I know this does not help Hibs finances but it certainly helps mine. I realise that the reason these games are priced higher is because the away support (celtc, derhun, Yams) will generally fill their end anyway and Hibs score out of that, but no way am I paying that price.
I have said for long enough now that we if sold home games in batches of 2 or 3 at a time and they were all priced the same, e.g. 2 cat B and one cat A game for £22 each, it would help the cause but there are several factors to why Cat A games are no longer sell outs, Price, kick-off times and probably more importantly live T.V. coverage.
The T.V. deal is crap and even if we lost the ESPN/SKY deal, I'm sure BBC or STV would step in with a lesser deal to compensate slightly, it would not be a total loss.

[pentlando]

Seen on Sky Sports News that the administrators are holding a press conference at 3.30pm. Hopefully they come out with a massive list of playing redundancies leaving them with a youth team. I'm not getting excited at players losing employment, but rather Rangers losing their best players. Hopefully this will happen and the Rangers fans start to see what the next few years has in store for them.

[frazeHFC]

When is Naismith out of contract? Possibly they might be forced into getting rid of him especially with his injury?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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I think this is the SPL TV deal that was mooted previously and not the existing Sky deal.

For the record i am horrified at the scare mongering approach we seem to be getting from the media so far. I would quite like (maybe i have missed it somewhere) if one of them came out and said what a lot of non-Rangers fans are thinking which is....Stuff them, they cheated and now they can fall on their own sword.

I've go to agree with this. Hopefully when they have wiped away all the tears someone will eventually come out and tell it like it this.

[IWasThere2016]

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Crap

PETRIE!!!

[ancienthibby]

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Seen on Sky Sports News that the administrators are holding a press conference at 3.30pm. Hopefully they come out with a massive list of playing redundancies leaving them with a youth team. I'm not getting excited at players losing employment, but rather Rangers losing their best players. Hopefully this will happen and the Rangers fans start to see what the next few years has in store for them.

There will be no player redundancies this week!

The Huns are expecting a full house on Saturday at Ipox - the administrators would themselves be liquidated if they made any player redundant ahead of the game!

There's not enough polis in the entire country that could cope with the anger of 45,000 'fans' in a confined space.

On the other hand, bet you they have hundreds of stewards with collection pails and take in a cool million on the day??

[Benny Brazil]

Just read this bit on the BBC News website:

Scottish Labour said the threat to one of Scottish football's oldest institutions was a serious concern.
In a letter to Treasury minister David Gauke, Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland Margaret Curran said it was correct that the tax was collected.
But she added: "I would however ask that you, as the minister responsible, ensure that this is done in a reasonable way, focused on the best outcome for the club and taxpayer."

Why should any pressure be applied by Politicians on the HMRC to help Rangers out is beyond me. If you or I didnt pay our taxes we would not recieve any special treatment from HMRC - why should Rangers.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Just read this bit on the BBC News website:

Scottish Labour said the threat to one of Scottish football's oldest institutions was a serious concern.
In a letter to Treasury minister David Gauke, Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland Margaret Curran said it was correct that the tax was collected.
But she added: "I would however ask that you, as the minister responsible, ensure that this is done in a reasonable way, focused on the best outcome for the club and taxpayer."

Why should any pressure be applied by Politicians on the HMRC to help Rangers out is beyond me. If you or I didnt pay our taxes we would not recieve any special treatment from HMRC - why should Rangers.

I think you are mis-reading it. She says...the best outcome for the club and taxpayer. That doesn't seem to be putting pressure on to help RFC.

[Bad Martini]

In the words of nelson from the simpsons...

AHAAA

:na na

[Gatecrasher]

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Just read this bit on the BBC News website:

Scottish Labour said the threat to one of Scottish football's oldest institutions was a serious concern.
In a letter to Treasury minister David Gauke, Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland Margaret Curran said it was correct that the tax was collected.
But she added: "I would however ask that you, as the minister responsible, ensure that this is done in a reasonable way, focused on the best outcome for the club and taxpayer."

Why should any pressure be applied by Politicians on the HMRC to help Rangers out is beyond me. If you or I didnt pay our taxes we would not recieve any special treatment from HMRC - why should Rangers.

Thats what is pissing me off about this. Poor Rangers have this big bill that they cant afford, Hardly anyone mentioning that they have been cheating the country out of millions of pounds each year. If this were any other club apart from celtic no one would even consider helping them. It has brought to light the easy ride the OF get in Scotland

[Bad Martini]

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Thats what is pissing me off about this. Poor Rangers have this big bill that they cant afford, Hardly anyone mentioning that they have been cheating the country out of millions of pounds each year. If this were any other club apart from celtic no one would even consider helping them. It has brought to light the easy ride the OF get in Scotland

However, know this. In this life, you can be guaranteed but two things if you live in this country.
No 1 - you will eventually die.
No 2 - you will pay taxes until you die, period.

You cannot cheat either.

Also know this; cheating the tax man is worse to the powers that be than say, beating the **** out some random in the street.

The huns will get theirs. So will the yams. The common denominator, ironically. HMRC

"God pay the Queen"
"Borrow Borrow" etc etc

ENDOF

[Phil MaGlass]

It would be great for Scottish Fitba if they were pumped oot the league and had to start at the bottom of 3, it would mean sellik would find it harder to attract good players,the fans wouldnae turn up as they will get fed up with not having competition, meaning less money and dragging them down aswell, HAPPY DAYS. A more even playing field for all.
SPHell will be rid of 1 set of bigots while the other set will begin to dwindle,what a GREAT CHANCE FOR SCOTTISH FITBA to start over and demand changes and a bigger slice of whatever pot of tv/sponsor money (which will obviously be way less than now if the buns weere to leave) is on offer.
SPL GRAB YIR CHANCE AND TELL THE OF WHERE TAE GO.
OH AYE..stolen from above ditto....
..in lieu of any new news and on account of decades of religious sectarian biggotry being the sole contribution of glasgarangersfcpuredeadbrilliantman, I'd just like to reiterate the following:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ya hun radges and ....

GIRFUY and all yer apologists.



ENDOF

[Seveno]

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I think you are mis-reading it. She says...the best outcome for the club and taxpayer. That doesn't seem to be putting pressure on to help RFC.

Alex Salmond said yesterday that the most important thing was for Rangers to survive. Surely, abiding by the law and paying your taxes is far more important.

[jgl07]

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Spot on, I've been advocating this for years, Sportscene relegated to late Sunday nights or whenever there's an inconvenient slot to fill in and really crap coverage at that.
Consider what the BBC spent on last years F1 coverage for what is basically a minority sport (although I do like it) in comparison to football in this country.
The SPL should demand at least 10% of what the BBC spend on the EPL, same with the SFL re the football league coverage.

The problem is that BBC could reply, with some justification, that many up here prefer to watch Premiership Football from down South.

[hibiedude]

Rangers players just been told jobs are safe and DC looks likes he's safe as well, so it looks like a back room staff kull.

Season ticket holders contract looks to be terminated sometime today to generate more cash at home games.

Before anyone asks source.........twitter is giving updates on discussions.

Press conference 15.30 today

[Andy74]

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Rangers players just been told jobs are safe and DC looks likes he's safe as well, so it looks like a back room staff kull.

Season ticket holders contract looks to be terminated sometime today to generate more cash at home games.

Before anyone asks source.........twitter is giving updates on discussions.

Press conference 15.30 today

They surely can't be allowed to escape a tax bill when they are getting away with carrying on as normal paying players that they can no longer afford?

[IWasThere2016]

Listen tae auld reekin' bacon chops at 1.15 onwards .. what a tool!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17052096