Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[silverhibee]

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As much as I dislike Hearts that is well out of order, if that happens then there is no doubt we all should come together 100% to make this the worst case scenario for Rangers. Could Hearts not take him back?

I agree with you, and they will keep on doing this to clubs in the SPL, plain and simple, its cheating/stealing money from other clubs, the SPL/SFA should be taking some kind of action against them and the yams, if the huns continue to not pay clubs in the SPL then the other clubs should be also taking some kind of action against them.

[StevieC]

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As much as I dislike Hearts that is well out of order, if that happens then there is no doubt we all should come together 100% to make this the worst case scenario for Rangers. Could Hearts not take him back?

I think that would surely be an option. The wages might be an issue, not so much Hearts would need to pay it but that Wallace will have a contract, although that contract would be with Rangers and he might need to chase it through the courts.
There certainly looks like a reasonable case for the return of goods not paid for, a bit like repossessing a car or a house if you dont keep up the payments.

[jonty]

from twitter:
How do I retract a bid on eBay? I put in a bid for a small cowboy outfit and I'm just six minutes away from owning Rangers

[Prof. Shaggy]

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Hibs share of tv money last year was £715000 rangers was £2.3m.
If tv money were to drop then that could be made up with a more equal share of a smaller pie.
With the Sunday lunchtime kick off, the crowds for old firm games are no longer much higher than standard league games.
I really don't think that Scottish football needs rangers as much as we need a return to sporting integrity.

All that needs saying, really.

[PeeKay]

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I think that would surely be an option. The wages might be an issue, not so much Hearts would need to pay it but that Wallace will have a contract, although that contract would be with Rangers and he might need to chase it through the courts.
There certainly looks like a reasonable case for the return of goods not paid for, a bit like repossessing a car or a house if you dont keep up the payments.

But they wouldn't be able to sell him on until the next transfer window opens, and in the meantime he would represent another of the high-earners that they are wanting to off-load. Hmm, on reflection it actually sound like a great idea.

[s.a.m]

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As much as I dislike Hearts that is well out of order, if that happens then there is no doubt we all should come together 100% to make this the worst case scenario for Rangers. Could Hearts not take him back?

Given Hearts' current financial issues, he might find they've changed the locks, if he tries turning up at Tynecastle with his fitba boots.

[Phil MaGlass]

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All that needs saying, really.

exactly

[Saorsa]

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As much as I dislike Hearts that is well out of order, if that happens then there is no doubt we all should come together 100% to make this the worst case scenario for Rangers. Could Hearts not take him back?

Or their comeuppance for what they did tae Arbroath. What goes around........

[Part/Time Supporter]

Hearts aren't due any money for Wallace until the summer. He will either return to Hearts then or be sold on by what's left of the Huns.

[jgl07]

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I think that would surely be an option. The wages might be an issue, not so much Hearts would need to pay it but that Wallace will have a contract, although that contract would be with Rangers and he might need to chase it through the courts.
There certainly looks like a reasonable case for the return of goods not paid for, a bit like repossessing a car or a house if you dont keep up the payments.

But players are not chattels that can be repossessed unless the player was prepared to return. Wallace has a contract with Rangers and not with Hearts. Hearts are owed money by Rangers. The Administrator would probably transfer list Wallace as his contract is a saleable asset. He will go south next window. Villa expressed interest.

Do you really think that Lee Wallace would agree to go back to Hearts?

[CropleyWasGod]

Rangers have paid part of the cash for LW. So, if Hearts want proper recompense, they can have part of him back.

[Spike Mandela]

Interesting legal view of Rangers administration consequences.....

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/

[Gatecrasher]

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Interesting legal view of Rangers administration consequences.....

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/

Season Tickets
This is an interesting one. The administrators can effectively rip up existing contracts with suppliers etc. Season ticket holders have already paid for their seats and, for the unexpired portion of their ticket, are creditors of the club.
In smaller examples of football insolvency, and Motherwell count as a “smaller” example, the appointment of an administrator has resulted in cancellation of season tickets, and a mass rallying round by the fans, who were happy to dig into their pockets to pay at the gate, and who were willing to chuck a few pounds into the buckets and tins being used to gather up funds for the administrator.

I never knew that!

[easty]

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I never knew that!

I knew a few Bradford fans who told me that had happened to them. I'm sure they said they had paid on thier credit card and got the money back from credit card company though.

[easty]

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Rangers have paid part of the cash for LW. So, if Hearts want proper recompense, they can have part of him back.

His trigger finger in an envelope maybe?

[jgl07]

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I never knew that!

Well if the administrators let season ticket holders in for free, each match is likely to run at a considerable loss with the high policing costs unless there is a packed stadium.

The match on Saturday will go ahead but where will the money come from? Away supporters and walk up fans will not produce that much cash.

[Leithenhibby]

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Well if the administrators let season ticket holders in for free, each match is likely to run at a considerable loss with the high policing costs unless there is a packed stadium.

The match on Saturday will go ahead but where will the money come from? Away supporters and walk up fans will not produce that much cash.

I have a feeling that this mob will get right behind the team and Hunbrox will be close to full ..

Every fan of football would do their bit for their club, and "the manks" are no different ...

[kennyh]

They said on the radio last night (i think it was on Real radio) that ST holders will be allowed in this weekend for free. They were pleading for the "loyal" army to turn out and fill the stadium. I am guessing that ST #'s are around 35K so 15K T's to be sold bringing in ~ 400K. I think it was left hanging in the balance as to games after that, I wasnt listening too attently but I can see them saying to fans please pay again.

Home Ticket money will be their only significant income till they go POP or come out of administration.

Surely now is the time for away fans to boycot the place.

[truehibernian]

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They said on the radio last night (i think it was on Real radio) that ST holders will be allowed in this weekend for free. They were pleading for the "loyal" army to turn out and fill the stadium. I am guessing that ST #'s are around 35K so 15K T's to be sold bringing in ~ 400K. I think it was left hanging in the balance as to games after that, I wasnt listening too attently but I can see them saying to fans please pay again.

Home Ticket money will be their only significant income till they go POP or come out of administration.

Surely now is the time for away fans to boycot the place.

Why consider a boycott ? Never quite understand that logic......surely you follow the team to support Hibs and the lads, not just financially but visibly and vocally. What other clubs do, or the mess they become, is their quandry. I support Hibernian and would never 'boycott'......the lads need to see fans there urging them on.

[Lofarl]

There will be a big crowd this weekend for them. They will match Celtic fans for their grief levels. But once it's cheerio ****ger, cya Papac, thanks for the memories Flecky. These fans will suddenly find other things to do on Saturdays.

They have yet to feel the effects of administration yet. Once it kicks in it will hurt harder than those words that every weegie dreads to hear " You start Monday". They seem to think that its a 10 point deduction and hard times to bear, ken no winning pure anyhing man.

Wake up lads.

[GloryGlory]

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Why should we bother about the old firm, they would not hesitate going down to England now, maybe the huns will reform in the English leagues. Local team may benefit from new supporters.

If they ever get the chance to join the EPL, they will not give a tinker's for the SPL or the rest of Scottish football.

My view - if Rangers are liquidated, the successor club cannot just be allowed back into the top tier of Scottish football, as if nothing happened. What would happen if the new organisation just started racking up debts and went into administartion again in 10 years time?

No - a strong message has to go out so that in future all clubs live within their means. Anything else is a travesty.

I realise that means the other clubs have to look at downsizing, but I'd be far happier knowing that Hibs and others were getting a fairer share of whatever is available.

It is also a good chance for Scottish football to reassess how it is structured and to find a way for the league to grow organically. Even Sky TV will get fed up eventually funding a redundant competition, just to get four OF games a season. We might as well take the chance now to effect long-overdue and necessary change, instead of continuing this long, slow downward spiral.

[StevieC]

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Do you really think that Lee Wallace would agree to go back to Hearts?

Not for a second, but Hearts might have an argument that, as Rangers failed to pay them, his period at Rangers would effectively be a "loan" and they "retain" the player contractually. It would be Hearts that could then sell him on and pocket any future transfer fee.

Very complicated situation with no known precedence but I know if it had happened to us I'd be looking at every possible solution to clawing back the cash owed.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Not for a second, but Hearts might have an argument that, as Rangers failed to pay them, his period at Rangers would effectively be a "loan" and they "retain" the player contractually. It would be Hearts that could then sell him on and pocket any future transfer fee.

Very complicated situation with no known precedence but I know if it had happened to us I'd be looking at every possible solution to clawing back the cash owed.

Sometimes, when goods are sold, the contract has a "retention of title" clause, which allows the purchaser to retain such title until the goods are paid for. I don't know whether that applies in the case of footballers', but the detail will be in the contract.

I have to say that, if it were the case, and Hearts demanded him back, they would also have to repay whatever they have already had from Rangers.

[jgl07]

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Not for a second, but Hearts might have an argument that, as Rangers failed to pay them, his period at Rangers would effectively be a "loan" and they "retain" the player contractually. It would be Hearts that could then sell him on and pocket any future transfer fee.

Very complicated situation with no known precedence but I know if it had happened to us I'd be looking at every possible solution to clawing back the cash owed.

I think the issue is similar to buying a car. If you get the car on HP and fail to make your repayments the credit company can repossess it. If you get a personal loan in the form of a second mortgage, the company cannot repossess the car but may come after your house if you fail to meet repayment terms.

So if a player went on a seasons' loan with an option to buy, then the first club could recall him in the event of default. That is similar to the car on HP deal. That would not apply after a full transfer.

[Smidge]

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I think the issue is similar to buying a car. If you get the car on HP and fail to make your repayments the credit company can repossess it. If you get a personal loan in the form of a second mortgage, the company cannot repossess the car but may come after your house if you fail to meet repayment terms.

So if a player went on a seasons' loan with an option to buy, then the first club could recall him in the event of default. That is similar to the car on HP deal. That would not apply after a full transfer.

On HP, you technically don't own the goods until you have paid the final installment!

[Lofarl]

Since the news of Rangers demise I have pretty much been like this

http://z0r.de/L/z0r-de_3714.swf

I've been in such a good mood this week.

[Exiled Hibby]

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I think the issue is similar to buying a car. If you get the car on HP and fail to make your repayments the credit company can repossess it. If you get a personal loan in the form of a second mortgage, the company cannot repossess the car but may come after your house if you fail to meet repayment terms.

So if a player went on a seasons' loan with an option to buy, then the first club could recall him in the event of default. That is similar to the car on HP deal. That would not apply after a full transfer.

Disagree. They would simply become creditors like all the others. There would be no Standard Security over Lee Wallace so they cannot "repossess" him. As an earlier poster said, sometimes goods are sold with a retention of title clause but cannot see that this is at all possible with a player who is under contract to his new employers.

[jgl07]

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Disagree. They would simply become creditors like all the others. There would be no Standard Security over Lee Wallace so they cannot "repossess" him. As an earlier poster said, sometimes goods are sold with a retention of title clause but cannot see that this is at all possible with a player who is under contract to his new employers.

That was exactly what I said.

Had Hearts loaned Wallace for the season with an option to buy at the end of the term, it would have been different.

[CropleyWasGod]

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That was exactly what I said.

Had Hearts loaned Wallace for the season with an option to buy at the end of the term, it would have been different.

.. and they wouldn't have had any cash from Rangers either.

[Part/Time Supporter]

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Disagree. They would simply become creditors like all the others. There would be no Standard Security over Lee Wallace so they cannot "repossess" him. As an earlier poster said, sometimes goods are sold with a retention of title clause but cannot see that this is at all possible with a player who is under contract to his new employers.

Craig Moore was returned to Rangers in 1998/99 after Crystal Palace (who had bought him in the previous summer) went bust.