Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[CyberSauzee]

I like the Daily Mash's insightful journalism on this. Really puts things into perspective I feel.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/index....4892&Itemid=26

Rangers pledges sectarianism as usual
14-02-12
MURDEROUS chant enabler Rangers last night pledged financial meltdown will not interfere with all the hating.

Going into administration could cost the Glasgow giants 10 points in the Scottish 'Premier' League, putting them within 25 points of everyone apart from Celtic, but the club urged fans to remain positive and continue thinking up new rhymes for 'Ratzinger'.

A spokesman said: "As long as there's a Rangers, there will always be one half of Glasgow wishing the other half dead. Everyone should carry on with their sectarian grudges and post-match domestic abuse as normal."

The club faces a potentially fatal £49m tax bill while season ticket sales have dropped since a ban on singing songs about being 'up to one's knees in Fenian blood'.

Now Rangers officials are to meet with UK Jihad 'tsar' Abu Qatada to discuss new ways of making religious hatred more revenue dynamic.
Ideas include blackmailing priests, **** the Pope Bingo and an iPhone app that can identify Catholics by measuring the width of their skulls.

Meanwhile, Celtic fans have set up a Rangers rescue fund after realising that without their Old Firm rivals their lives would be utterly hollow. Celtic fan Bill McKay said: "You've seen the football. No-one is coming here for the football."

The Rangers spokesman added: "It would be very easy to play the blame game, but the unavoidable truth is that the inland revenue is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Opus Dei."

The club also pledged to continue buying carpet-baggers who couldn't hack it in a proper league and getting its arse handed to it in Europe by teams with names like Vlodzy Kravnaj.

[Hibrandenburg]

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Email Hibs and the SFA and tell them what's you think.

Would be the proper thing to do. However I'm a "Just nipping out for a pack of fags" type guy. ;-)

[Ozyhibby]

If rangers can come through this unscathed then I will no longer be supporting Hibs or Scottish football in general.
I can just about handle a crap league, but a corrupt league which turns a blind eye to blatant cheating is not for me.
I don't just mean not going back, I mean no longer supporting the club at all, no strips for the kids etc.
I'm certain I'm not alone in thinking like this and Hibs will have to take this into account in their actions towards a new rangers entity.

[beensaidbefore]

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I like the Daily Mash's insightful journalism on this. Really puts things into perspective I feel.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/index....4892&Itemid=26

[blackpoolhibs]

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If rangers can come through this unscathed then I will no longer be supporting Hibs or Scottish football in general.
I can just about handle a crap league, but a corrupt league which turns a blind eye to blatant cheating is not for me.
I don't just mean not going back, I mean no longer supporting the club at all, no strips for the kids etc.
I'm certain I'm not alone in thinking like this and Hibs will have to take this into account in their actions towards a new rangers entity.

I think there might be a few more like you thinking this. This could be the straw that breaks the camels back for some?

[Gatecrasher]

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If rangers can come through this unscathed then I will no longer be supporting Hibs or Scottish football in general.
I can just about handle a crap league, but a corrupt league which turns a blind eye to blatant cheating is not for me.
I don't just mean not going back, I mean no longer supporting the club at all, no strips for the kids etc.
I'm certain I'm not alone in thinking like this and Hibs will have to take this into account in their actions towards a new rangers entity.

Why should Hibs suffer? Its not Hibs fault if they get away with it.

[Pete]

Why would anyone stop supporting hibs over this?

Mental!

[TornadoHibby]

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Sorrybut I'm trying to catch up with this. Can someone explain why appointment of Duff Phelps is an issue? I'm guessing too close to Whyte but in what way?

It's not uncommon for restructuring consultants to work with struggling businesses to assist them assess their current financial position and the options for turning the business around from an operating level that is unsustainable or from markets that are uneconomic for them!

It's also not uncommon following such a period of working together with a struggling business for that same restructuring practice to then act as administrator through one or more of its partners who are suitably qualified to carry out such work!

[Ozyhibby]

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Why should Hibs suffer? Its not Hibs fault if they get away with it.

It will be up to the rest of the teams in the SPL to approve the re-entry of a new Hun FC. If they do so without extracting a considerable pound of flesh then it will be Hibs fault.

[Spike Mandela]

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Why would anyone stop supporting hibs over this?

Mental!

It's called disillusionment.

If the establishment contrive to cynically ease Rangers through their troubles to the point a white knight comes through when admin is over, with creditors shafted, and starts outspending us all and nicking our players many of us who have seen it all before will be saying " what is the point" of supporting a frugal responsible team in a corrupt league weighed in the OFs favour.

[I'm_cabbaged]

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It will be up to the rest of the teams in the SPL to approve the re-entry of a new Hun FC. If they do so without extracting a considerable pound of flesh then it will be Hibs fault.

But there's no going to be a new hun fc?

[erskine-hibby]

Bottom line...new team should start from the bottom.

[Ozyhibby]

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It's called disillusionment.

If the establishment contrive to cynically ease Rangers through their troubles to the point a white knight comes through when admin is over, with creditors shafted, and starts outspending us all and nicking our players many of us who have seen it all before will be saying " what is the point" of supporting a frugal responsible team in a corrupt league weighed in the OFs favour.

Exactly

[CyberSauzee]

And buried amongst the news from yesterday is this snippet about one of Whyte's companies. Can't pay his taxes and now he's got his hand in the biscuit tin as well...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...iness-17021584

Pritchard Stockbrokers banned from trading

A stockbroking company which has Rangers owner Craig Whyte as board secretary has been banned from further trading by the financial regulator.

The Financial Services Authority has ruled that Pritchard Stockbrokers had used client money for its own expenses, "thereby putting client money at risk".

[greenginger]

What the SFA, the football media, and all the rest are saying is Scottish Football revolves around and exists for the sole purpose of providing four Bigot- Fests per season.

These games are little more than circus freak shows and depend for there "entertainment" value displays of raw hatred and songs about murdering members of the opposition.

If Scottish Football is no more than this they might as well shut up shop now.

[erskine-hibby]

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They will next season. bottom of the SPL. Had we had a SPL2 that might have been different but we don't. We have the SPL which Rangers are a part of and the SFL, which they are not.

That I understand, but as the SPL I feel that it should be that ANY club that goes into administration/liquidation should no longer be part of the SPL. If this is allowed to stand, and rangers are allowed to get away with it, what is the the point of a SPL???? After all SPL clubs get relegated every season, so whats the difference???

[Bristolhibby]

Interesting post in the TAMB from some guy who seems to know what he is talking about.

Bad times for the Huns. We MUST *** them at every opportunity if this scenario comes to pass.


Here's the deal:

Rangers has to go bust - liquidated - for CW's plan to work. They know they will lose the big tax case. If that happens, HMRC are biggest creditor (even allowing for being unsecured), and their application to appoint an administrator would likelyhave been successful

Because they are currently 'only' owed £9m, they did not have enough sway to convince judge. So, CW gets his guys in. They will be professional, but will also have pre-discussed what to do next.

A quick CVA, and exit from administration is useless to rangers/CW because it would happen before big tax bill hits. That is not currently a debt, so can't be included in any settlement. RFC 1873 would exit admin and last about a month before being back in, with HMRC in far stronger position.

In any case, HMrC will never agree to CVA - it meets none if the criteria, and lack of current PAyE/VAT payments is nail in coffin for that. CW must know this, but will blame HMRC intransigence for eventual liquidation.

If the club goes completely bust, (liquidated, not admin), the assets can be sold to secured creditor's newco if no-one else loses out - which they won't if assets are worth same or less than secured credit. Then, RFC 2012 will own the assets, and will potentially be a football club. ( if there is any excess it will be distributed to unsecured creditors proportionately.)

When the tax case goes against oldco, it will have no impact, as RFC 1873 is already gone, and RFC2012 is a completely new entity. This only works with a liquidation.

RFC 2012 will then only be able to pick up RFC 1873's league role if the SPL agrees. There is a committee which decides if licences can be transferred. This means that all the clubs which have been burned by oldco (eg Hearts) and who have lost put on the pitch to big spending, will have two choices: 1) apply full sanctions and RfC2012 has to apply to rejoin at bottom of the league 2) swallow it, and agree a compromise in exchange for allowing playing licence to transfer (eg 15 points off for next three years). Hobson's choice for them, and The 10pt penalty is not applicable when liquidation occurs.

Rangers won't be in Europe for a number of years, even if 'successful' in liquidation strategy.

I think Whyte recycled his cash immediately, with Ticketus etc. They possibly have step-in rights to his securities to cover their payment. If not, they must be happy with cover - they're not daft. Whyte probably has £1 at risk, and a day 1 plan to abandon old Rangers, and their debts, transfer assets into newco, negotiate something short of new league application, and emerge with Ticketus getting revenues, and him owning a debt free RFC2012 for **** all. It's actually a reasonable and audacious plan if you've got the balls/morals for it.

Where i think he'll fall down is that creditors may have been alienated by his goings on, and will take legal action to tie it up for a long time. The profile is going to be higher than he anticpated, and also there's little chance that he'll pass director's qualifications now! Maybe his mate Ellis will..?

My bet is that because of legal actions, the liquidation and Phoenix co will struggle to happen in time, and RFC will not be in the league next year in any form.

Murray will not buy club back, even if he wanted to, for simple reason that he is allegedly skint. Also, from what I am understand, MIH also administered an EBT in similar fashion, and will be a victim of hMRC win at tribunal. The reason HMRC is so keen, is that RFC is tip of iceberg and is the test case which will establish precedent in many more cases with hundreds of millions at stake.

[jgl07]

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If rangers can come through this unscathed then I will no longer be supporting Hibs or Scottish football in general.
I can just about handle a crap league, but a corrupt league which turns a blind eye to blatant cheating is not for me.
I don't just mean not going back, I mean no longer supporting the club at all, no strips for the kids etc.
I'm certain I'm not alone in thinking like this and Hibs will have to take this into account in their actions towards a new rangers entity.

We need an open letter to Hibs to inform them of this opinion.

I am sure that supporters of other clubs will feel the same. Maybe not Hearts as their turn will soon come.

[SteveHFC]

Click on the link and look at the bottom left of your screen

http://www.afc-chat....00

[Gus Fring]

Just seen on Twitter that Cousin hasn't been registered with the SPL yet! Does that mean they can't sign him as they now have a transfer embargo in place?

[Cropley10]

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Interesting post in the TAMB from some guy who seems to know what he is talking about.

Bad times for the Huns. We MUST *** them at every opportunity if this scenario comes to pass.


Here's the deal:

Rangers has to go bust - liquidated - for CW's plan to work. They know they will lose the big tax case. If that happens, HMRC are biggest creditor (even allowing for being unsecured), and their application to appoint an administrator would likelyhave been successful

Because they are currently 'only' owed £9m, they did not have enough sway to convince judge. So, CW gets his guys in. They will be professional, but will also have pre-discussed what to do next.

A quick CVA, and exit from administration is useless to rangers/CW because it would happen before big tax bill hits. That is not currently a debt, so can't be included in any settlement. RFC 1873 would exit admin and last about a month before being back in, with HMRC in far stronger position.

In any case, HMrC will never agree to CVA - it meets none if the criteria, and lack of current PAyE/VAT payments is nail in coffin for that. CW must know this, but will blame HMRC intransigence for eventual liquidation.

If the club goes completely bust, (liquidated, not admin), the assets can be sold to secured creditor's newco if no-one else loses out - which they won't if assets are worth same or less than secured credit. Then, RFC 2012 will own the assets, and will potentially be a football club. ( if there is any excess it will be distributed to unsecured creditors proportionately.)

When the tax case goes against oldco, it will have no impact, as RFC 1873 is already gone, and RFC2012 is a completely new entity. This only works with a liquidation.

RFC 2012 will then only be able to pick up RFC 1873's league role if the SPL agrees. There is a committee which decides if licences can be transferred. This means that all the clubs which have been burned by oldco (eg Hearts) and who have lost put on the pitch to big spending, will have two choices: 1) apply full sanctions and RfC2012 has to apply to rejoin at bottom of the league 2) swallow it, and agree a compromise in exchange for allowing playing licence to transfer (eg 15 points off for next three years). Hobson's choice for them, and The 10pt penalty is not applicable when liquidation occurs.

Rangers won't be in Europe for a number of years, even if 'successful' in liquidation strategy.

I think Whyte recycled his cash immediately, with Ticketus etc. They possibly have step-in rights to his securities to cover their payment. If not, they must be happy with cover - they're not daft. Whyte probably has £1 at risk, and a day 1 plan to abandon old Rangers, and their debts, transfer assets into newco, negotiate something short of new league application, and emerge with Ticketus getting revenues, and him owning a debt free RFC2012 for **** all. It's actually a reasonable and audacious plan if you've got the balls/morals for it.

Where i think he'll fall down is that creditors may have been alienated by his goings on, and will take legal action to tie it up for a long time. The profile is going to be higher than he anticpated, and also there's little chance that he'll pass director's qualifications now! Maybe his mate Ellis will..?

My bet is that because of legal actions, the liquidation and Phoenix co will struggle to happen in time, and RFC will not be in the league next year in any form.

Murray will not buy club back, even if he wanted to, for simple reason that he is allegedly skint. Also, from what I am understand, MIH also administered an EBT in similar fashion, and will be a victim of hMRC win at tribunal. The reason HMRC is so keen, is that RFC is tip of iceberg and is the test case which will establish precedent in many more cases with hundreds of millions at stake.

Interesting PoV but incorrect in a number of areas.

RFC 1873 do owe the tax man - the Big Tax Case is Rangers' appeal. Therefore it must appear as a liability, contingent or otherwise as I understand it.

Reforming as a phoenix with the same assets and league position as Rangers 1873 would present an interesting situation and one that HMRC wouldn't look favourably upon.

That being said - the very fact that the same people who walked in with Whyte when he took over are now Administering RFC 1873 stinks. There's a pre-agreed plan and we will just to have wait and see.

[SteveHFC]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/inde...owtopic=210806

[jst1875]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISA...m=110825629217

[Since90+2]

Sorry if already posted but this is hilarious! (stolen from the sheep forum)

[John_the_angus_hibby]

This story will never be played straight in the Scottish media. This story will remain a Scottish football at risk story rather than what it is, a story about a fraudulent and corrupt organisation that is trying to steal public money. Why? Look at the pages and the % of airtime they get in our press. Journalists and pundits jobs are at risk here as 90% of every Scottish football story has an OF slant.

We will never get the unbiased view from the established media. Thank god for independent bloggers who dig and just tell it like it is.

The Scottish establishment WILL fight tooth and nail to have Rangers survive in some format. I hope they fail. As the posters on here have wonderfully expressed, it is the future of Scottish Football that is at stake...just not in the way our lapdog media is spinning it.

Death to RFC as a club , institution and memory.


Sent from another universe!

[ScottB]

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Despite the wailings from the likes of Talk Sport and Hun journos, the real danger for Scottish Football is if (on liquidation) they are allowed back in to the SPL unharmed, NOT if they go away to div 3. The haemorrhaging of fans from everywhere else would be massive. If they think attendances are dropping at the minute, wait till you see how many are interested in going to watch a league where FC Newhun have been instantly re-admitted.

More than that, think of the precedent it sets.

In the future, what will any club that gets itself into a mess do? Follow the Hibs method of years of cut backs and debt repayment, or pull a Rangers, wiping out their debt and staying in the exact seem league they were in? Because of Rangers get to do that, everyone else will too!

It will, to my mind at least, be far more damaging for the game in this country if they get back into the SPL as a new side straight away than a few years of them being out of the SPL could ever do.

[Gala Foxes]

Not paying PAYE & VAT - in effect funding transfers & high living by not making these mandatory payments

They should be up on court on criminal charges for stealing this money

[HiBremian]

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It will be up to the rest of the teams in the SPL to approve the re-entry of a new Hun FC. If they do so without extracting a considerable pound of flesh then it will be Hibs fault.

Just to let you know, if re-entry isn't appoved, they WON'T be welcome in the Bundesliga. );

[MCameron]

I think we need to try to get the Hibs Board to comment on their stance here. We need our support to make it clear to them that we do not want Rangers to walk back into the SPL.

How can we best make this known to the board?

We also need to join up with other SPL team fans to get them to do similar.

[Since90+2]

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I think we need to try to get the Hibs Board to comment on their stance here. We need our support to make it clear to them that we do not want Rangers to walk back into the SPL.

How can we best make this known to the board?

We also need to join up with other SPL team fans to get them to do similar.

Hibs wont comment on something that is hypothetical, though looking likely , at the moment.