Scotland's Role in a "Balanced" Parliament

[Phil D. Rolls]

Say the SNP do end up holding the balance of power at Westminster, and manage to get the concessions they are after from the UK government. Scotland is hardly going to be popular in England is it?

Let's face it, there's a thinly veiled contempt for Brown's Scottishness as it is. He is going to find himself between a rock and a hard place if he has to help out the old country.

[Beefster]

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Say the SNP do end up holding the balance of power at Westminster, and manage to get the concessions they are after from the UK government. Scotland is hardly going to be popular in England is it?

Let's face it, there's a thinly veiled contempt for Brown's Scottishness as it is. He is going to find himself between a rock and a hard place if he has to help out the old country.

In a hung parliament, it's likely that any Lib Dem / Lab or Lib Dem / Con pact will have an overall majority. The SNP will be an irrelevance as far as negotiating the next government goes.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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In a hung parliament, it's likely that any Lib Dem / Lab or Lib Dem / Con pact will have an overall majority. The SNP will be an irrelevance as far as negotiating the next government goes.

I watched Sturgeon getting ripped up for *rse paper last night on Newsnight. She couldn't explain why, if a hung parliament is what they are after, that people shouldn't vote tactically for the Lib Dems.

I suspect there's a wee bit of a rift between her and El Presidente at the moment, judging by the body language at the manifesto launch.

[Woody1985]

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Say the SNP do end up holding the balance of power at Westminster, and manage to get the concessions they are after from the UK government. Scotland is hardly going to be popular in England is it?

Let's face it, there's a thinly veiled contempt for Brown's Scottishness as it is. He is going to find himself between a rock and a hard place if he has to help out the old country.

It's not going to make much odds on how we're perceived, as you say, they don't give two ****s about us anyway.

[Green Mikey]

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It's not going to make much odds on how we're perceived, as you say, they don't give two ****s about us anyway.

How does Westminster not give two ****s about Scotland?

I'm not a fan of the SNP line that they want a hung parliament so that they can hold a party to ransom over Scottish issues.

[steakbake]

As someone who spends a bit of time daan saaf in amongst the middle English, it is notable how much there is general contempt for Brown and horror at the fact that a Scot is PM. They somehow think that as a Scot, I automatically like him.

There is, I think, a geniune liking of Scotland as a place but as King Edward in Braveheart puts it: the problem with Scotland is that it's full of Scots.

I like to remind them that we are, apparently, a United Kingdom and therefore any one of our number could and should be PM. The perception is that we'll end up independent one way or the other.

[offshorehibby]

Whether they like us or not there will still be 59 Scottish MP's at Westminster so the more mp's that are willing to fight for Scotland and not Britain the better.

[RyeSloan]

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Whether they like us or not there will still be 59 Scottish MP's at Westminster so the more mp's that are willing to fight for Scotland and not Britain the better.

In what sense are they going to 'fight' for Scotland and not Britain...what are these choices that will benefit Scotland so much but be detrimental to the UK as a whole?

[Beefster]

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Whether they like us or not there will still be 59 Scottish MP's at Westminster so the more mp's that are willing to fight for Scotland and not Britain the better.

If you're suggesting that Scottish MPs from other parties won't care about Scottish issues then you've been listening to the Smug Jambo's scaremongering nonsense too much.

[J-C]

As yet I'm still waiting for any of the 3 major parties mention Scotland in any of their agenda's, why is there a seperate Scottish Tory/Labour/Libdem parties, surely the parties should be including Scotland in it's political agenda's within Britain's. This is one of the main reasons I'll be voting SNP again this year.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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In what sense are they going to 'fight' for Scotland and not Britain...what are these choices that will benefit Scotland so much but be detrimental to the UK as a whole?

Scotland spends more on public services. Cuts to public services will have a detrimental effect on our economy, owing to the number of people who work in the public sector.

[marinello59]

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Scotland spends more on public services. Cuts to public services will have a detrimental effect on our economy, owing to the number of people who work in the public sector.

How is Salmond going to avoid making cuts then? Pretending that we don't all have to face some harsh economic choices is hardly a truthful policy.

[GlesgaeHibby]

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How is Salmond going to avoid making cuts then? Pretending that we don't all have to face some harsh economic choices is hardly a truthful policy.

By cutting:

• £100bn for Trident
• £5bn for what is left of the ID card scheme
• Getting rid of the house of lords

We have a government in Scotland that are delivering on issues that matter to Scottish people: 1000 more police on the beat, free higher education, free prescriptions, council tax freeze, personal care for elderly, free bus travel for elderly etc etc whilst trying to tackle our chronic alcohol problem and implement a fairer form of local taxation.

Contrast that with the British Government in Westminster: Illegal War, ID Cards, Nanny state, Expenses scandal, gross economic mismanagement whilst GB was chancellor etc etc. It shows how far removed politicians are from the people and their needs.

[Beefster]

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By cutting:

• £100bn for Trident
• £5bn for what is left of the ID card scheme
• Getting rid of the house of lords

We have a government in Scotland that are delivering on issues that matter to Scottish people: 1000 more police on the beat, free higher education, free prescriptions, council tax freeze, personal care for elderly, free bus travel for elderly etc etc whilst trying to tackle our chronic alcohol problem and implement a fairer form of local taxation.

Contrast that with the British Government in Westminster: Illegal War, ID Cards, Nanny state, Expenses scandal, gross economic mismanagement whilst GB was chancellor etc etc. It shows how far removed politicians are from the people and their needs.

£2.5bn a year for Trident + £150m a year for the House of Lords + one-off saving of £5bn (let's assume £1bn a year for the next 5 years).

All good but where is the rest of the £84bn a year coming from?

[marinello59]

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By cutting:

• £100bn for Trident
• £5bn for what is left of the ID card scheme
• Getting rid of the house of lords

We have a government in Scotland that are delivering on issues that matter to Scottish people: 1000 more police on the beat, free higher education, free prescriptions, council tax freeze, personal care for elderly, free bus travel for elderly etc etc whilst trying to tackle our chronic alcohol problem and implement a fairer form of local taxation.

Contrast that with the British Government in Westminster: Illegal War, ID Cards, Nanny state, Expenses scandal, gross economic mismanagement whilst GB was chancellor etc etc. It shows how far removed politicians are from the people and their needs.

The 100 billion figure for Trident is the vastly inflated figure that Salmond likes to quote. Regardless of the actual figure it would be a long term saving though, that doesn't help us out in the immediate future. Cuts are needed now. (I don't see the logic in replacing Trident but that is a seperate argument)
I won't argue about scrapping ID cards, a flawed policy at best.
Getting rid of the House of Lords? It will need to be replaced with something...........will that be cost free then?

A 1000 more Bobbies on the beat was the Salmond promise. How many have been delivered? We can file that one in the same box as his smaller class sizes pledge.
The rest are great populist policies which can only be paid for by diverting funds from elsewhere. i.e free prescriptions were available to those who genuinely needed that assistance anyway. That's funds being diverted from other areas of the NHS. Salmond loves to make spending pledges then blame Westminster when the funds are not there to implement them.

Are the SNP distancing themselves from the expenses scandal as well. Salmond was hardly squeaky clean over that one or has he properly explained his Westminster food bill now? (Not illegal but his head was in the trough along with the rest of them) How would Salmond have managed the economy differently from GB? He loved to big up the Scottish banks before the bubble burst....then basically said it wisna us when they proved to have foundations built on sand.

I would only vote SNP as a means to obtaining Independence. That doesn't seem to be part of their manifesto for this election so what is the point of the SNP?

[GlesgaeHibby]

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The 100 billion figure for Trident is the vastly inflated figure that Salmond likes to quote. Regardless of the actual figure it would be a long term saving though, that doesn't help us out in the immediate future. Cuts are needed now. (I don't see the logic in replacing Trident but that is a seperate argument)
I won't argue about scrapping ID cards, a flawed policy at best.
Getting rid of the House of Lords? It will need to be replaced with something...........will that be cost free then?

A 1000 more Bobbies on the beat was the Salmond promise. How many have been delivered? We can file that one in the same box as his smaller class sizes pledge.
The rest are great populist policies which can only be paid for by diverting funds from elsewhere. i.e free prescriptions were available to those who genuinely needed that assistance anyway. That's funds being diverted from other areas of the NHS. Salmond loves to make spending pledges then blame Westminster when the funds are not there to implement them.

Are the SNP distancing themselves from the expenses scandal as well. Salmond was hardly squeaky clean over that one or has he properly explained his Westminster food bill now? (Not illegal but his head was in the trough along with the rest of them) How would Salmond have managed the economy differently from GB? He loved to big up the Scottish banks before the bubble burst....then basically said it wisna us when they proved to have foundations built on sand.

I would only vote SNP as a means to obtaining Independence. That doesn't seem to be part of their manifesto for this election so what is the point of the SNP?

There are 1039 more police officers in Scotland since the SNP came to power.

Class sizes in Primary Schools are at a record low, although they haven't met the target of 18 yet.

Of the 4 main parties (SNP, Lab, Lib, Con) the SNP are the only social democrats, and the only party really fighting for issues that matter to common people IMO.

[marinello59]

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There are 1039 more police officers in Scotland since the SNP came to power.

Class sizes in Primary Schools are at a record low, although they haven't met the target of 18 yet.

Of the 4 main parties (SNP, Lab, Lib, Con) the SNP are the only social democrats, and the only party really fighting for issues that matter to common people IMO.

How many are on the beat?

The target of 18 per class has been all but abandoned hasn't it? They have failed.

Your last statement is just plain wrong.

[Mibbes Aye]

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There are 1039 more police officers in Scotland since the SNP came to power.

Class sizes in Primary Schools are at a record low, although they haven't met the target of 18 yet.

Of the 4 main parties (SNP, Lab, Lib, Con) the SNP are the only social democrats, and the only party really fighting for issues that matter to common people IMO.

Social democrats who accepted half a million from a man who used his fortune to try and stop the repeal of Section 28.

Very good.

[One Day Soon]

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By cutting:

• £100bn for Trident
• £5bn for what is left of the ID card scheme
• Getting rid of the house of lords

We have a government in Scotland that are delivering on issues that matter to Scottish people: 1000 more police on the beat, free higher education, free prescriptions, council tax freeze, personal care for elderly, free bus travel for elderly etc etc whilst trying to tackle our chronic alcohol problem and implement a fairer form of local taxation.

Contrast that with the British Government in Westminster: Illegal War, ID Cards, Nanny state, Expenses scandal, gross economic mismanagement whilst GB was chancellor etc etc. It shows how far removed politicians are from the people and their needs.

The one teensy problem with that analysis is that the Scottish Parliament - and therefore Alex Salmond - control none of those things and therefore can implement none of them as savings, even supposing they were the right savings in the first place.

Free personal care and free travel for the elderly was actually delivered by the previous (non-SNP) govts in the Scottish Parliament.

And SNP MPs at Westminster were caught up in the expenses scandal too were they not?

[GlesgaeHibby]

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The one teensy problem with that analysis is that the Scottish Parliament - and therefore Alex Salmond - control none of those things and therefore can implement none of them as savings, even supposing they were the right savings in the first place.

Free personal care and free travel for the elderly was actually delivered by the previous (non-SNP) govts in the Scottish Parliament.

And SNP MPs at Westminster were caught up in the expenses scandal too were they not?

I know he can't implement them as savings, but he can suggest that is how he would do it if he was PM and that they should be first in line to be cut.

Yes the SNP MPs were caught up in the expenses scandal. Politicians from every party were.

Politics for me isn't about which party I like most, it's about the party I dislike least and at the moment that party is the SNP.

[marinello59]

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Politics for me isn't about which party I like most, it's about the party I dislike least and at the moment that party is the SNP.

I can agree with that. I'll probably ignore the colour of the rosette and vote for the candidate I think will do the most for my local consituency.
The rest of your statement illustrates perfectly the depressing nature of politics today. Where is the party that enthuses the voters and gives us a positive reason to vote?

[One Day Soon]

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I can agree with that. I'll probably ignore the colour of the rosette and vote for the candidate I think will do the most for my local consituency.
The rest of your statement illustrates perfectly the depressing nature of politics today. Where is the party that enthuses the voters and gives us a positive reason to vote?

The problem isn't the parties. Its the quality of the electorate, the media and the politicians - in that order.

[marinello59]

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The problem isn't the parties. Its the quality of the electorate, the media and the politicians - in that order.

That's the problem with democracy, the voters.

[GlesgaeHibby]

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I can agree with that. I'll probably ignore the colour of the rosette and vote for the candidate I think will do the most for my local consituency.
The rest of your statement illustrates perfectly the depressing nature of politics today. Where is the party that enthuses the voters and gives us a positive reason to vote?

Nowhere to be seen. It seems crazy as well when so many people want the same things.

[JimBHibees]

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Social democrats who accepted half a million from a man who used his fortune to try and stop the repeal of Section 28.

Very good.

Try being the operative word. The only party with 3 MP's being charged by a court for fraud is Labour and reflects how morally corrupt that party under the stewarship of Bliar and Brown has become. Cash for honours, MP's offering Companies favours and a pint with Tony , illegal war with only principled exceptions like the now sadly departed Robin Cook with a backbone to fight against the party machine. Mandelson the twice disgraced and resigned MP now getting a new more powerful role as Business Secretary, Brown now admitting maybe he should have regulated the banks more - thanks for that Gordon. 2.5m people officially unemployed.

How anyone can seriously consider voting for that shambles needs certifying?

[Woody1985]

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Try being the operative word. The only party with 3 MP's being charged by a court for fraud is Labour and reflects how morally corrupt that party under the stewarship of Bliar and Brown has become. Cash for honours, MP's offering Companies favours and a pint with Tony , illegal war with only principled exceptions like the now sadly departed Robin Cook with a backbone to fight against the party machine. Mandelson the twice disgraced and resigned MP now getting a new more powerful role as Business Secretary, Brown now admitting maybe he should have regulated the banks more - thanks for that Gordon. 2.5m people officially unemployed.

How anyone can seriously consider voting for that shambles needs certifying?

I thought that there was one Tory as well but he didn't try to claim legal aid.

[RyeSloan]

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Scotland spends more on public services. Cuts to public services will have a detrimental effect on our economy, owing to the number of people who work in the public sector.

So let me get this right Scottish MP's should be trying to prevent public service cuts to protect Scotland even if that bankrupts the UK....even though the Scottish budget comes centrally from the UK. Seems a strange arguement that smacks of cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Would we not be much better trying to reduce the size of the public sector in Scotland so the country as a whole does not have to rely on taxation revenues (and therefore the spending power it provides) as the mainstay of it's economy?

[steakbake]

Imagine Nigel Farage got elected and he held the balance of power.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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So let me get this right Scottish MP's should be trying to prevent public service cuts to protect Scotland even if that bankrupts the UK....even though the Scottish budget comes centrally from the UK. Seems a strange arguement that smacks of cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Would we not be much better trying to reduce the size of the public sector in Scotland so the country as a whole does not have to rely on taxation revenues (and therefore the spending power it provides) as the mainstay of it's economy?

I think what we saw in the 80s and 90s was that Scottish people see life in a different way from those south of the border. There is an argument that community and the well being of our neighbours is more important to us than it is in the South.

The UK wasn't too bothered about what we thought in the 80s, which pushed us towards devolution. Many would argue that Scotland has fared a lot better since our affairs were put in our hands.

I don't think the UK is of any more concern to us than the affairs of Ireland, or Holland. They are a trading partner. That said, I don't want to be taking things from England that we aren't entitled to.

I also don't want them taking more than our fare share from us. I think that has been happening less since devolution.

The current situation isn't acceptable to anyone. But that's the way democracy works - I always thought the purpose of electing MPs was that they would see to the interests of their constituents.

Personally, I am proud of the fact that Scotland looks after its people better than other parts of the UK. If England insists on holding the purse strings, we can hardly be blamed for putting our case for the money we are due.

[Beefster]

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I think what we saw in the 80s and 90s was that Scottish people see life in a different way from those south of the border. There is an argument that community and the well being of our neighbours is more important to us than it is in the South.

The UK wasn't too bothered about what we thought in the 80s, which pushed us towards devolution. Many would argue that Scotland has fared a lot better since our affairs were put in our hands.

I don't think the UK is of any more concern to us than the affairs of Ireland, or Holland. They are a trading partner. That said, I don't want to be taking things from England that we aren't entitled to.

I also don't want them taking more than our fare share from us. I think that has been happening less since devolution.

The current situation isn't acceptable to anyone. But that's the way democracy works - I always thought the purpose of electing MPs was that they would see to the interests of their constituents.

Personally, I am proud of the fact that Scotland looks after its people better than other parts of the UK. If England insists on holding the purse strings, we can hardly be blamed for putting our case for the money we are due.

You're confusing England with the United Kingdom.