BA wins injunction to stop the strike

[goosano]

I'm surprised that there's no mention of Derek Simpson and his role in this escapade-a left wing dinosaur like Bob Crow and someone who does no favours to workers or company.

BA staff voted to strike(and I respect that though I think it was misguided) but the decision of the UNITE executive to have a 12 day strike was breathtaking. It was certainly not what the workers wanted-perhaps a series of rolling 2-3 day strikes.

The simple truth is that despite what some on this thread assert, the unions have had too much power for too long. Companies too have something to blame for being lazy in allowing salaries and terms to bloat and be unrealistic and uncompetitive.

Train drivers on £40k, £29k for steward(esse)s are unrealistic salaries and do not reflect skills involved for the jobs involved. And don't get me started on the postal strike....

[Barney McGrew]

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Are Unite not the same union that organised the strike at Grangemouth for workers rights that related to workers that didn't even exist yet??

That's the ones.

It also seems that the reason that the ballot was declared as unlawful was because Unite/BASSA (the cabin crew's union that's part of Unite) was actively encouraging staff who had taken voluntary redundancy to vote, even though they were totally inelligible to do so. They even had one of the senior folk in BASSA posting on their internet forum that people in this position should return their ballot papers voting yes for strike action as 'one finger finger up to BA'.

Not the sharpest tools in the box.

[Gerard]

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Fair enough but I'd still be peed off being told to take a 2 year pay freeze when the cost of living continues to rise.

That is a fair point but if you had to choose between having a job with a two year pay freeze or no job ...... what would you choose?
Gerard

[ArabHibee]

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That is a fair point but if you had to choose between having a job with a two year pay freeze or no job ...... what would you choose?
Gerard

But who says that was the choice? They must have felt strongly enough about it to strike and not receive pay for the days of the strike.

[goosano]

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But who says that was the choice? They must have felt strongly enough about it to strike and not receive pay for the days of the strike.

They had no idea of the length of the strike-never decided/announced before the ballot. I'm sure not one of them thought it would be 12 days

[ArabHibee]

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They had no idea of the length of the strike-never decided/announced before the ballot. I'm sure not one of them thought it would be 12 days

Correct. I read somewhere that the Union led them to believe that if they voted to strike it would be 3 day strikes starting in January, not the 12 day strike that the Union decided on once the vote was announced. Unite haven't done themselves any favours by arsing this up IMO.

[BEEJ]

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They're not going to have any conditions soon given the way BA is going.

BTW, the reaction to the result of the strike ballot was a joke, celebrating going on strike like you've won the lottery?

This action has done further untold damage to the BA brand and on this occasion the union leadership appear to be entirely to blame for the mess. Even one of their own went on record and stated that they felt the strike action 'may have been a little over the top'!

Just what sort of parallel universe are they living in?

[Sir David Gray]

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Maybe they would deserve support if they actually had a valid cause. BA flight attendants get better pay than most carriers, and to strike at Christmas and disrupt thousands of people who have paid good money to get home to be with their family and friends is out of order.

Totally agree.

I would not be pleased if I had paid hundreds of pounds on a holiday months in advance, really looking forward to it and then a week beforehand, I hear that the airline I'm flying with is going on strike.

Very pleased that this has not been allowed to go ahead.

[Woody1985]

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Totally agree.

I would not be pleased if I had paid hundreds of pounds on a holiday months in advance, really looking forward to it and then a week beforehand, I hear that the airline I'm flying with is going on strike.

Very pleased that this has not been allowed to go ahead.

Another example of the workers trying to use the public for leverage during their proposed strike.

[ArabHibee]

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Another example of the workers trying to use the public for leverage during their proposed strike.

Isn't that the whole point of a strike though? "Strike when the iron is hot" and all that? Strike when you will cause maximum disruption.

[McIntosh]

After reading through this thread I am still amazed by how many reactionary Tories there are who are Hibs supporters, for me being right- wing and a Hibby is just not possible. The right-wingers are lower than vermin, selfish self seeking apologists - detestable.

The BA workers are fighting for their rights the wanton disregard for their democratic rights is a sad day. The more workers unite and fight for their rights the better this world will be, trade unionists are the salt of the earth and we as a society owe them a tremendous debt of graditute. I am surprised people here talk about skills and remuneration with such authority, we must be overun with HR professionals. I would love to hear if they considered they were overpaid or paid the market rate.

[Barney McGrew]

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After reading through this thread I am still amazed by how many reactionary Tories there are who are Hibs supporters, for me being right- wing and a Hibby is just not possible. The right-wingers are lower than vermin, selfish self seeking apologists - detestable.

The BA workers are fighting for their rights the wanton disregard for their democratic rights is a sad day. The more workers unite and fight for their rights the better this world will be, trade unionists are the salt of the earth and we as a society owe them a tremendous debt of graditute. I am surprised people here talk about skills and remuneration with such authority, we must be overun with HR professionals. I would love to hear if they considered they were overpaid or paid the market rate.

The BA Cabin Crew are the only ones involved in this, and even then it's only one of the two trade organisations within the Cabin Crew. The vast majority of the other other BA staff don't support what they are doing.

That should tell it's own story IMO.

[McIntosh]

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The BA Cabin Crew are the only ones involved in this, and even then it's only one of two the two trade organisations within the Cabin Crew. The vast majority of the other other BA staff don't support what they are doing.

That should tell it's own story IMO.

Splits in the trade unions are not uncommon, however positive change is not dependent on 'reasonable' people. In my experience workers do not receive their rights out of largesse from an employer and it is that, that is the 'real' story.

[Beefster]

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After reading through this thread I am still amazed by how many reactionary Tories there are who are Hibs supporters, for me being right- wing and a Hibby is just not possible. The right-wingers are lower than vermin, selfish self seeking apologists - detestable.

The BA workers are fighting for their rights the wanton disregard for their democratic rights is a sad day. The more workers unite and fight for their rights the better this world will be, trade unionists are the salt of the earth and we as a society owe them a tremendous debt of graditute. I am surprised people here talk about skills and remuneration with such authority, we must be overun with HR professionals. I would love to hear if they considered they were overpaid or paid the market rate.

You sound incredibly Yammish. How awful.

[New Corrie]

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After reading through this thread I am still amazed by how many reactionary Tories there are who are Hibs supporters, for me being right- wing and a Hibby is just not possible. The right-wingers are lower than vermin, selfish self seeking apologists - detestable.

The BA workers are fighting for their rights the wanton disregard for their democratic rights is a sad day. The more workers unite and fight for their rights the better this world will be, trade unionists are the salt of the earth and we as a society owe them a tremendous debt of graditute. I am surprised people here talk about skills and remuneration with such authority, we must be overun with HR professionals. I would love to hear if they considered they were overpaid or paid the market rate.

What a remarkable post!!! Yet another one suggesting that there is some sort of criteria to be met for being a Hibs supporter. I don't know anyone who would not support people that have been "wronged", but the potential BA strikers certainly do not fall into that catagory. They don't realise how lucky they are, and why oh why does the man orchestrating this debacle have to be Scottish

Trade Unionists are the salt of the earth Well they are certainly "something of the earth". The ones I have dealt with over the years have been trouble making layabouts unable to look at the bigger picture or potential consequences of their militancy. To even it up a bit, I view them with same dislike as the greedy bankers and fat cats that have bankrupted our country.

[Green Mikey]

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After reading through this thread I am still amazed by how many reactionary Tories there are who are Hibs supporters, for me being right- wing and a Hibby is just not possible. The right-wingers are lower than vermin, selfish self seeking apologists - detestable.

The BA workers are fighting for their rights the wanton disregard for their democratic rights is a sad day. The more workers unite and fight for their rights the better this world will be, trade unionists are the salt of the earth and we as a society owe them a tremendous debt of graditute. I am surprised people here talk about skills and remuneration with such authority, we must be overun with HR professionals. I would love to hear if they considered they were overpaid or paid the market rate.

What a ridiculous statement about a football, religious and political divides should have no place in sport. How is it difficult to be a Hibs supporter and right wing? How in any way do Hibs represent a left wing institution?

Your post is full of unfounded statements anmd sweeping generalisations:

People who oppose BA strike action = reactionary tories
Trade unionists = salt of the earth
All right wingers = vermin, selfish self seeking apologists - detestable

[Woody1985]

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Isn't that the whole point of a strike though? "Strike when the iron is hot" and all that? Strike when you will cause maximum disruption.

Yes, perhaps if you get some levage in public services to show how much you are needed.

BA aren't needed. There are other airlines out there for everyone to use.

[RyeSloan]

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After reading through this thread I am still amazed by how many reactionary Tories there are who are Hibs supporters, for me being right- wing and a Hibby is just not possible. The right-wingers are lower than vermin, selfish self seeking apologists - detestable.

The BA workers are fighting for their rights the wanton disregard for their democratic rights is a sad day. The more workers unite and fight for their rights the better this world will be, trade unionists are the salt of the earth and we as a society owe them a tremendous debt of graditute. I am surprised people here talk about skills and remuneration with such authority, we must be overun with HR professionals. I would love to hear if they considered they were overpaid or paid the market rate.

Ahh more 'peace and love' McIntosh style....

You have managed to insinuate (quite wrongly) that anyone that has posted a view that is not in line with Unite's as being reactionary Tories and therefore right wing.

You then call all right wingers as "vermin".....for a proponent of peace and love you sure as hell have a lot of vitriol to throw about, this time aimed at a significant amount of people that have posted on this thread.

If you think I should have any gratitude for unions like Unite then you are dead wrong, just like you are in calling me and others Tories, Right Wing or lower than vermin.

Have a look at what has happened and tell me where there has been "a wanton disregard for their democratic rights"...you might find it was actually their own Union that was abusing their democratic right by knowingly holding a ballot that included ineligible votes and then deciding on the severity of the strike action AFTER the vote.....

[McIntosh]

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Ahh more 'peace and love' McIntosh style....

You have managed to insinuate (quite wrongly) that anyone that has posted a view that is not in line with Unite's as being reactionary Tories and therefore right wing.

You then call all right wingers as "vermin".....for a proponent of peace and love you sure as hell have a lot of vitriol to throw about, this time aimed at a significant amount of people that have posted on this thread.

If you think I should have any gratitude for unions like Unite then you are dead wrong, just like you are in calling me and others Tories, Right Wing or lower than vermin.

Have a look at what has happened and tell me where there has been "a wanton disregard for their democratic rights"...you might find it was actually their own Union that was abusing their democratic right by knowingly holding a ballot that included ineligible votes and then deciding on the severity of the strike action AFTER the vote.....

Again Simon at times all you seem to do is expose your ignorance and poor understanding of syntax, as you have outed yourself as a Tory I am now starting to think that this is a Tory strait. Good God, a Tory Hibby you are a rare bird.

I try never to patronise anyone but I will make an exception in your case. In the world according to Simon working people and their political and trade union representaives have done nothing positive. In your world the NHS, welfare state and universal access to education must not exist. I would give you an ounce of respect if you could acknowledge the trade union movements tremendous and positive contributions to the improvement of society, however Tories are not renown for unbiased objectivity they are trapped in their naïve individualism. Oh, I forget in your world "their is no such thing as society".

You are correct in one thing I do have a deep and enduring contempt for Tories, the miners strike entrenched this. I don't think it is hate but I do deeply despise them. I leave you with the words of my hero Nye Bevan and as always he sums it up more elequently than I ever could:

"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party that inflicted those bitter experiences on me. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin. They condemned millions of first-class people to semi-starvation. Now the Tories are pouring out money in propaganda of all sorts and are hoping by this organised sustained mass suggestion to eradicate from our minds all memory of what we went through."

[McIntosh]

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What a remarkable post!!! Yet another one suggesting that there is some sort of criteria to be met for being a Hibs supporter. I don't know anyone who would not support people that have been "wronged", but the potential BA strikers certainly do not fall into that catagory. They don't realise how lucky they are, and why oh why does the man orchestrating this debacle have to be Scottish

Trade Unionists are the salt of the earth Well they are certainly "something of the earth". The ones I have dealt with over the years have been trouble making layabouts unable to look at the bigger picture or potential consequences of their militancy. To even it up a bit, I view them with same dislike as the greedy bankers and fat cats that have bankrupted our country.

"How lucky they are" - listen to yourself, the next thing your going to talk about is the deserving and underserving poor.

For the record, Hibernian football club was founded by working class people who at times were derided as 'militants', if you look at their strong relationship with the emeging trade union movement we know were their loyalties lay.

[McIntosh]

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What a ridiculous statement about a football, religious and political divides should have no place in sport. How is it difficult to be a Hibs supporter and right wing? How in any way do Hibs represent a left wing institution?

Your post is full of unfounded statements anmd sweeping generalisations:

People who oppose BA strike action = reactionary tories
Trade unionists = salt of the earth
All right wingers = vermin, selfish self seeking apologists - detestable

To answer your question, read:

Bruce, S, No Pope of Rome: Anti-Catholicism in Modern Scotland (John Donald, Edinburgh, 1985).

Devine, T M, Irish immigrants in Scottish Society in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries (Free Press, Edinburgh, 1991).

Holford, J, Reshaping Labour - Organisaion, Work and Politics: Edinburgh in the Great War and After, (Polygon, London,1988).

MacDougall I, Essays on scottish Labour History, (Polygon, London, 1979).

Pellings, H, Popular Politics and Society in Late Victorian Britain (McMillan, London, 1968).

Walker, W, "Irish immigrants in Scotland:Their Priests, Politics and Parochial life, Historical Journal, 15 (2) (1972).

Pellings offers a wonderful overview, I was tempted to quote my own book chapters but that would have been both pompous and pretentious and as I am frequently guilty of this, I can't give any more fuel to opponents.

I don't want to be brutal but syntax and interpretation are different things and without being impertinent you place the emphasis. I offered a clearly stated opinion you seem to be confuse this with a stated fact. However, subsequent post have confirmed that many are Tories, notably SiMar.

Finally, I leave you to ponder Bill shankly, again he answers your question, "The socialism I believe in is everyone working for each other, everyone having a share of the rewards. It's the way I see football, the way I see life".

[New Corrie]

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"How lucky they are" - listen to yourself, the next thing your going to talk about is the deserving and underserving poor.

For the record, Hibernian football club was founded by working class people who at times were derided as 'militants', if you look at their strong relationship with the emeging trade union movement we know were their loyalties lay.

And owned by a greedy Capatilist Knight of the Realm who has donated funds to the Conservative Party.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Again Simon at times all you seem to do is expose your ignorance and poor understanding of syntax and grammar, as you have outed yourself as a Tory I am now starting to think that this is a Tory strait. Good God, a Tory Hibby your a rare bird.

I try never to patronise anyone but I will make an exception in your case. In the world according to Simon working people and their political and trade union representaives have done nothing positive. In your world the NHS, welfare state and universal access to education must not exist. I would give you one ounce of respect if you could acknowledge the trade union movements tremendous and positive contributions to the improvement of society, however Tories are not renown for unbiased objectivity they are trapped in their naïve individualism. Oh, I forget in your world "their is no such thing as society".

."[/I]

Isn't it a bit wrong to criticise someone for their "poor understanding of syntax and grammar", when your own spelling is so poor?

[steakbake]

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Isn't it a bit wrong to criticise someone for their "poor understanding of syntax and grammar", when your own spelling is so poor?

This fella writes books. He's usually got an editor to check his stuff. He's flying solo on here.

[The Green Goblin]

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I would not be pleased if I had paid hundreds of pounds on a holiday months in advance, really looking forward to it and then a week beforehand, I hear that the airline I'm flying with is going on strike. .

I wouldn`t either, but I won`t be one of those unhappy punters, because after a few years of having some kind of blood-boiling balls-up on absolutely every single occasion I flew with BA, I made a conscious decision never to fly with them ever again. Ever.

Thus, as I leave for my honeymoon on Monday, it will be with a positive frame of mind, as that airline will not be playing what would be an inevitably incompetent or destructive role in my plans.

My point being, I am pretty convinced that a good deal of the general trouble that BA find themselves in right now, is of their own making: utter all-round pish and disdainful treatment of their paying customers on countless occasions that I have personally experienced and witnessed to name just one reason.

Paying customers always have a choice. As a result of my choice to avoid BA, I know I have saved myself an enormous amount of hassle and grief. I don`t know about the strike, but I do think that BA are a rotten company.

GG

[McIntosh]

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And owned by a greedy Capatilist Knight of the Realm who has donated funds to the Conservative Party.

No one ownes abstract or the clubs soul, Farmer is merely a proprietor and for the record he has donated at one time or another to all the major political parties in Scotland.

---------- Post added at 12:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 AM ----------

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This fella writes books. He's usually got an editor to check his stuff. He's flying solo on here.

Well observed and I really do mean that! It's not editors but proof readers who save our bacon - wonderful people.

[McIntosh]

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Isn't it a bit wrong to criticise someone for their "poor understanding of syntax and grammar", when your own spelling is so poor?

You are correct, I edited the previous one when you were posting to remove grammar. However, the misquoting is irksome.

[McIntosh]

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I leave for my honeymoon on Monday, GG

Congratulations, I hope you both have a good time. Apologises for being of topic.

[Green Mikey]

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To answer your question, read:

Bruce, S, No Pope of Rome: Anti-Catholicism in Modern Scotland (John Donald, Edinburgh, 1985).

Devine, T M, Irish immigrants in Scottish Society in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries (Free Press, Edinburgh, 1991).

Holford, J, Reshaping Labour - Organisaion, Work and Politics: Edinburgh in the Great War and After, (Polygon, London,1988).

MacDougall I, Essays on scottish Labour History, (Polygon, London, 1979).

Pellings, H, Popular Politics and Society in Late Victorian Britain (McMillan, London, 1968).

Walker, W, "Irish immigrants in Scotland:Their Priests, Politics and Parochial life, Historical Journal, 15 (2) (1972).

Pellings offers a wonderful overview, I was tempted to quote my own book chapters but that would have been both pompous and pretentious and as I am frequently guilty of this, I can't give any more fuel to opponents.

I don't want to be brutal but syntax and interpretation are different things and without being impertinent you place the emphasis. I offered a clearly stated opinion you seem to be confuse this with a stated fact. However, subsequent post have confirmed that many are Tories, notably SiMar.

Finally, I leave you to ponder Bill shankly, again he answers your question, "The socialism I believe in is everyone working for each other, everyone having a share of the rewards. It's the way I see football, the way I see life".

Don't worry McIntosh you are pompous and pretentious without quoting your own book, the mention of your literary output in the majority of your posts aids this greatly.

I was fully aware that your post was an opinion, that is why I asked you to validate the statements you made. If I believed they were fact why would I challenge them?

Your disparaging attack on my perceived misunderstanding of your post coupled with the reference to mutiple books only serves to further your personal conviction that your are intellectually superior. Attacking other people's opinions instead of engaging them in debate undermines the whole purpose of this board.

[CropleyWasGod]

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You are correct, I edited the previous one when you were posting to remove grammar. However, the misquoting is irksome.

Lost me. What misquoting? I merely cut and pasted from your posting.