Girl, 14 Stripped and Beaten at the Omni Centre

[hibsbollah]

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You're so rock n' roll. By the way, which part of "A very good argument for imprisonment." did you not understand?

I think he thought you were being sarcastic

[Phil D. Rolls]

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I think he thought you were being sarcastic

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, used only by fools and idiots, er.....

No, I was serious. It was a good point that Woody made, and he raised something I didn't take the time to consider. That's what's good about debate and discussion, you can test your ideas against other people's and if they point out something you hadn't thought of then youhae learned something.

The alternative is to be entrenched in your views, and argue the same point in the face of evidence that suggests reasonable alternatives. I know I can be arrogant, but I'd like to think I am decent enough to acknowledge a good point.

[hibsbollah]

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Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, used only by fools and idiots, er.....

No, I was serious. It was a good point that Woody made, and he raised something I didn't take the time to consider. That's what's good about debate and discussion, you can test your ideas against other people's and if they point out something you hadn't thought of then youhae learned something.

The alternative is to be entrenched in your views, and argue the same point in the face of evidence that suggests reasonable alternatives. I know I can be arrogant, but I'd like to think I am decent enough to acknowledge a good point.

To be honest, I was just interested that in the event of a complete breakdown of law and order, Woodys first impulse would be to steal a big TV and a playstation

[Golden Bear]

Oh the poor wee sowel!

There are times when I think that defence lawyers are bigger criminals than the people they represent.


http://news.stv.tv/scotland/east-cen...-refused-bail/

[Woody1985]

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To be honest, I was just interested that in the event of a complete breakdown of law and order, Woodys first impulse would be to steal a big TV and a playstation

I was in a chilled out mood when writing that. All I could think of was just taking it easy with a beer and COD4 (war game based on American's Vs the East. The irony being that killing innocent people is legal when it's called war!).

Plus, I wasn't in the murdering type mood at that time although I might consider it when FR gets into power

[poolman]

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Oh the poor wee sowel!

There are times when I think that defence lawyers are bigger criminals than the people they represent.


http://news.stv.tv/scotland/east-cen...-refused-bail/

What a shame for the poor boy

Maybe a taxpayers trip to Euro Disney would help the poor soul

[Phil D. Rolls]

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I was in a chilled out mood when writing that. All I could think of was just taking it easy with a beer and COD4 (war game based on American's Vs the East. The irony being that killing innocent people is legal when it's called war!).

Plus, I wasn't in the murdering type mood at that time although I might consider it when FR gets into power

Yikes!!!

[J-C]

Seemingly beaten up a young offenders secure unit............



http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/la...ked.5629996.jp

[ArabHibee]

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Seemingly beaten up a young offenders secure unit............



http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/la...ked.5629996.jp

Do I feel sorry for him?





Wee tosspot deserves all he gets.

[NOLA]

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Oh the poor wee sowel!

There are times when I think that defence lawyers are bigger criminals than the people they represent.


http://news.stv.tv/scotland/east-cen...-refused-bail/

13+14 yo girls in stilettos deary me, still at least the boy getting a doing proves the age old adage if your a con then beasts will get done no matter what age cos surely if he's happy to do this at 13 then thank fek he's off the streets before he grows older + stronger + possibly more sadistic

[Phil D. Rolls]

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13+14 yo girls in stilettos deary me, still at least the boy getting a doing proves the age old adage if your a con then beasts will get done no matter what age cos surely if he's happy to do this at 13 then thank fek he's off the streets before he grows older + stronger + possibly more sadistic

Cons, on the whole, are bawbags who want to be liked. If they can score brownie points with right thinking people, whilst engaging in their own favourite pastime of hurting people, it's a no brainer.

[Betty Boop]

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/la...tre.5826819.jp

[hibsbollah]

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3 years in a Y.O. unit, a HUGE DOSE of councilling and a couple of trips white water rafting.

It was 4 years. Not a bad guess.


The judge ordered that all three should be detained for four years each and also ruled that they should be supervised for a further five years under extended sentences.

He pointed out that during that latter period they can be returned to custody if they breach the terms of their licence.

[Steve-O]

9 year sentence, fair enough IMO

[Judas Iscariot]

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9 year sentence, fair enough IMO

That's harsh IMO when you look at sentences peedos, drivers who've killed from behind the wheel, drunk drivers and drug dealers etc receive..

These kids are clearly messed up as it is, I don't even want to imagine how messed up they will be upon release..

[Steve-O]

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That's harsh IMO when you look at sentences peedos, drivers who've killed from behind the wheel, drunk drivers and drug dealers etc receive..

These kids are clearly messed up as it is, I don't even want to imagine how messed up they will be upon release..

4 years detention, 5 years of what is effectively 'parole' - nothing too harsh there. Sounds like they are better off being detained than at home according to the story.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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That's harsh IMO when you look at sentences peedos, drivers who've killed from behind the wheel, drunk drivers and drug dealers etc receive..

These kids are clearly messed up as it is, I don't even want to imagine how messed up they will be upon release..

I would have thought that their best chance of turning their lives around would be to be as far away from their communities as possible. I also hope that the same effort is put into helping the poor victim of this - maybe them being shut away will be a start.

[Judas Iscariot]

Should admin not change the tread title to; Girl 14 0 - Teenage Rogues 3

[Phil D. Rolls]

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Should admin not change the tread title to; Girl 14 0 - Teenage Rogues 3

You are a bad man.

[lapsedhibee]

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Should admin not change the tread title to; Girl 14 0 - Teenage Rogues 3

I'm possibly misunderstanding the protocols here, but shirley that score would only have been appropriate after the original kicking. At the point where the baddies have been sentenced, wouldn't Girl 14 have staged a comeback of Liverpuddleian proportions?

Girl 14 3 Teenage Monsters 3 (HT 0-3)

[Dashing Bob S]

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I'm possibly misunderstanding the protocols here, but shirley that score would only have been appropriate after the original kicking. At the point where the baddies have been sentenced, wouldn't Girl 14 have staged a comeback of Liverpuddleian proportions?

Girl 14 3 Teenage Monsters 3 (HT 0-3)

Yes, one of these draws, that sadly, does nobody any good.

[IndieHibby]

I heard about this at the time and now upon reading the details, am even more repulsed by the incident. It turns my stomach.

They knew what they were doing was wrong. Maybe they have not developed empathy, or have been badly mistreated by their own parents (although the fact that he knew his mother would "go mental" if the blood on his shoes was seen suggests that he had at least some boundaries while growing up) or something else in their past which has damaged their own emotional faculties, but under no circumstances does this absolve them even fractionally from the responsibility for their actions.

So, knowing that something is wrong and doing it anyway is criminal behaviour. Lock them up. Solitary confinement (for at least part of their sentence) should at least show them that if they are not prepared to engage in society in a positive way, then society will not engage with them at all. Allowing them to mix with people of their own ilk, or worse, is clearly damaging to society and to the criminals themselves.

Prison = somewhere to put people who are a danger to society
Prison ≠ somewhere where criminals can be rehabilitated

If we could solve this problem, without concurrently giving the impression to the criminal (and the victims) that they are getting the soft option, then we would be on the way to the best justice system we could muster.

It's whether or not we are prepared to pay for this that is the first sticking point, I feel.

In school, detention is the most effective form of deterrent for those who will never be in detention. For those who are in detention, it is generally not a deterrent. In fact, sometimes it is a reward, as the bad kids generally crave positive and calm adult interactions.

I see prison in (somewhat) the same light. They serve their purpose (protect the innocent), but do not offer solutions (rehabilitation).

[MSK]

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Should admin not change the tread title to; Girl 14 0 - Teenage Rogues 3

Eh ..why ..? ...

[Judas Iscariot]

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Eh ..why ..? ...

Why not?

Boyracers 0 - Roadsafety 3 ring any bells?

[MSK]

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Why not?

Boyracers 0 - Roadsafety 3 ring any bells?

Aye, so whats the thread title got to do wi Admin ..?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

It seems as always that there is an element of truth in both sides of this debate.

I would bet good money that the children who did this are all victims of terrible abuse themselves, beaten, perhaps molested, certainly neglected and exposed to all kind of harsh realities that no child should be - this is not their fault, it is the fault of the ****my parents who cant bring up children without violence, who dont work, who are addcits, who cant communicate without shouting, who have nothing but dysfunctional relationaships themselves and who have probably been sexually abused themselves.

However, while it is not the kids fault they have been turned into feral little animals, equally it is not my fault, your fault, or the girl who got attacked's fault. In my opinion justice should be there to protect the decent majority. In that sense, who can argue that society without the children who did this would be a better, safer place?

Yes the kids are victims of abuse, but that does not excuse what they did.

While i agree with the instinct to clamp down hard on crime, socieities that do this still have those problems. I do beleive however that it could work if done hand in hand with other projects.

Perhaps removing these children from their parents at a very young age would help?

Perhaps instead of young offender units at the first sign of trouble, young kids should be taken off parents and sent to camps in the Highlands or in the Hebrides, and properly educated?

Perhaps parents who have children taken off them should be sterilised?

Breaking the link between rank rotten parents is the only way to ease this problem i think - because you can guarentee that these girls will have bairns of their own pretty soon, and the whole cycle will start again.....

[Judas Iscariot]

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Should admin not change the tread title to; Girl 14 0 - Teenage Rogues 3

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Aye, so whats the thread title got to do wi Admin ..?

Eh to change the thread title no?

[Phil D. Rolls]

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It seems as always that there is an element of truth in both sides of this debate.

I would bet good money that the children who did this are all victims of terrible abuse themselves, beaten, perhaps molested, certainly neglected and exposed to all kind of harsh realities that no child should be - this is not their fault, it is the fault of the ****my parents who cant bring up children without violence, who dont work, who are addcits, who cant communicate without shouting, who have nothing but dysfunctional relationaships themselves and who have probably been sexually abused themselves.

However, while it is not the kids fault they have been turned into feral little animals, equally it is not my fault, your fault, or the girl who got attacked's fault. In my opinion justice should be there to protect the decent majority. In that sense, who can argue that society without the children who did this would be a better, safer place?

Yes the kids are victims of abuse, but that does not excuse what they did .

While i agree with the instinct to clamp down hard on crime, socieities that do this still have those problems. I do beleive however that it could work if done hand in hand with other projects.

Perhaps removing these children from their parents at a very young age would help?

Perhaps instead of young offender units at the first sign of trouble, young kids should be taken off parents and sent to camps in the Highlands or in the Hebrides, and properly educated?

Perhaps parents who have children taken off them should be sterilised?

Breaking the link between rank rotten parents is the only way to ease this problem i think - because you can guarentee that these girls will have bairns of their own pretty soon, and the whole cycle will start again.....

One of the things I am starting to realise is that there is a difficult balancing act between fairness to the offenders, who have probably never had a chance, as you say.

On the other hand there is also a need for people who behave themselves to see justice done, other kids have harrowing upbringings and yet are able to rise above it.

Maybe the start of things is to try and bring the burgeoning underclass back into mainstream society (which kind of contradicts my free will "argument").

[MSK]

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Eh to change the thread title no?

No !! ..your reference to Toaods thread ..his thread title ..not Admins...i assume you thought we changed the thread title ..

We could have ..we should have but it was easier just to close the thread ..

Aye ..

[Judas Iscariot]

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No !! ..your reference to Toaods thread ..his thread title ..not Admins...i assume you thought we changed the thread title ..

We could have ..we should have but it was easier just to close the thread ..

Aye ..

No, i knew that was his own choice of thread title..