Girl, 14 Stripped and Beaten at the Omni Centre

[Woody1985]

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Agree with this up to a point, but it's ultimately a limited and thus facile analysis. We obviously have to do these things you suggest, but we also have to try and determine cause rather effect. If something is rotten at the heart of our society and is a root contributor to anti-social behaviour, we have to take steps to indentify and alter or eradicate that, otherwise we are just fighting fires and throwing more and more people in prison at the taxpayers expense.

In the 80's we restructured the economy, promoted the cult of individualism, created mass unemployment and low-status, part-time jobs. In doing so we also created a hopeless underclass who's only real chance of advancement was in the black economy, dealing drugs to their peers; people rendered miserable by no education, housing or employment opportunities. Now we are dealing with the children of this class of people. You can't rip the social fabric out of a nation and pretend that nothing has happened and that people are behaving badly or carrying knifes or getting wasted on drugs because there's something in the water.

As far I'm concerned, the youths who perpetrated this attack are probably way beyond redemption and rehabilitation. I don't care what punishment they recieve, I just don't want them walking the streets. What concerns me is that many parts of our city, many homes and many families have been written off by us a society, and the children they spawn are basically being bred for this behaviour. We've set up these anti-social behaviour factories, and we can devise all the grotesque punishments we like, it won't deter anyone who is so alienated and emotionally brutalised that they feel they have nothing to lose.

You're correct in that we're just fighting fires if we don't get to the root cause. The people who are committing these crimes now should be put away, you've outlines reasons for this behaviour and IMHO there is no way to change or rehabilitate these people.

In relation to all your points regarding the class created and the associated problems, there's no easy way to reverse that, that's even if there is a way which I very much doubt. We can plug away at it but these people should be locked up for a long time.

[LiverpoolHibs]

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All the Do Gooder Lefties continually tell us that harsh punishment doesn't work, well, we will never know until we give it a try. One thing that is for sure is that the Left Wing approach to crime doesn't work. Social workers, human rights, civil liberties, legal aid, background reports, early release, open prisons etc etc....It doesn't work! The burgeoning Underclass and the crime that they bring will just get worse and worse until someone gets a hold of this! It's so typical of Britain that the victim always plays second fiddle to the perpetrator.

Execution, Boot Camps, National Service, Birching, stopping them breeding etc...I'd be right up for it all, but sadly we will never know if it works as we've signed up to all this European Communism that restricts us from punishing accordingly. The Scottish Parliament have a £60 million purse set aside to pay prisoners who had to slop out, and the current administration are hellbent on this early release programme which has been proven to put law abiding citizens at risk. No wonder they are pressing to get prisoners a vote. They are the criminal's friend!

'Left-wing approach to crime', 'European Communism' - do you actually believe this yourself?

And yeah, this quasi-fascistic (actually I'm not sure about the quasi-) response to crime has never been tried anywhere, ever - has it?

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Lunatics act irrationally. However morally reprehensible it might be, there's nothing irrational about anyone wanting to beat seven shades out of such as the perpetrators of this crime.

Eh? Of course it's irrational! It's completely pointless and useless act that would run counter to any logical analysis of the situation. It would purely be an expression of the understandable emotional response to the case.

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And as for Blake Morrison ( who, you neglect to mention for the benefit of the rest of us, is a poet FFS, and no more qualified to comment than anyone else), I repeat, he is indulging in the classic liberal process of exoneration by understanding. Society is to blame. Capitalism, poverty, social exclusion This was a calculated act of malice, originated by the individuals concerned.

Why would I mention it, why is it relevant? Where did I say he was more qualified to comment than anyone else? What are you talking about?

And I'll also repeat. If you wish to have no interest in attempting to understand why people (children, adults) act the way that they do, then that is entirely your choice...

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How do I know they were aware of the potential consequences of their actions? What a stupid question! They didn't know that repeatedly kicking someone in the head might kill them?? They didn't think that stripping, sexually degrading and seriously assaulting someone might traumatise them mentally? Every human action is the result of a choice, the consequences of which are the responsibility of the individual. At every stage in the squalid and inhuman treatment of this young girl, these people had the choice of not doing what they did.

But there are innumerable reasons that might (stressed) mean they have an impaired understanding of actions and their consequences (their position as children might be one of these). My point is that you have no idea.

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Yes, they should be named, if convicted. It's not society's job to protect the guilty. And that leads on to what the basis of a system of justice should be. Protect the innocent, punish the guilty. Simples. Judge the actions regardless of motivation. Some actions are inexcusable, yet we have a whole industry spanning several professions whose purpose is to excuse the guilty.

You seem to have an incredible disinterest in what is actually achieved by any action or punisment meated out to them. Presuming that you can recognise the incredibly harmful things that could result from naming them, what is actually achieved?

[J-C]

I remember well this story when it came out a few months ago and was truly sickened by what took place. Unfortunately this is what is happening in the world today, ferrel kids running amock, high on drugs and alchohol doing what they please.

[Tazio]

The young lad involved in the crime seems to be getting off rather lightly in my opinion. It sounds very much like he choreographed the whole thing and was the leader of the attack while making sure he didn't get his hands dirty.

To use a hugely exaggerated comparison, Charles Manson didn't do any of the killing the Manson family were guilty of, he just planned and encouraged it.

[Dashing Bob S]

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The young lad involved in the crime seems to be getting off rather lightly in my opinion. It sounds very much like he choreographed the whole thing and was the leader of the attack while making sure he didn't get his hands dirty.

To use a hugely exaggerated comparison, Charles Manson didn't do any of the killing the Manson family were guilty of, he just planned and encouraged it.

Yes, I agree. It seems to me that the dynamic between the two girls was highly disturbed, but this young lad was certainly the spark that encouraged them into violence. As is so often the case with women and violence, they seek a male figure of approval. I don't think your Manson analogy is that wide of the mark, though it obviously doesn't excuse the actions of those girls.

[Dashing Bob S]

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You're correct in that we're just fighting fires if we don't get to the root cause. The people who are committing these crimes now should be put away, you've outlines reasons for this behaviour and IMHO there is no way to change or rehabilitate these people.

In relation to all your points regarding the class created and the associated problems, there's no easy way to reverse that, that's even if there is a way which I very much doubt. We can plug away at it but these people should be locked up for a long time.

I don't have a clue as to whether or not the 'people' involved can or can't be rehabilitated. The empirical evidence either for or against this seems to differ depending on which set of statistics are deployed.

More to the point is the question of whether society should invest scarce resources to trying to rehabilitate someone who has committed such a henious crime when there are obviously other policy priorities.

I think we do have to plug away at it, or even attack it full on with major investment in family and personal education, housing and employment. Without doing this we basically might as well admit defeat and live in fear or turn our society into a fascist, militaristic police state, where we have no individual freedom to go about our business in the manner we choose. Either way, we end up spending money on this problem, better to do it in ways that guarantees our freedom as a society.

On the same matter, why no CCTV in this city centre car park? It seems to intrude everywhere else in our lives.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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All the Do Gooder Lefties continually tell us that harsh punishment doesn't work, well, we will never know until we give it a try. One thing that is for sure is that the Left Wing approach to crime doesn't work. Social workers, human rights, civil liberties, legal aid, background reports, early release, open prisons etc etc....It doesn't work! The burgeoning Underclass and the crime that they bring will just get worse and worse until someone gets a hold of this! It's so typical of Britain that the victim always plays second fiddle to the perpetrator.

Execution, Boot Camps, National Service, Birching, stopping them breeding etc...I'd be right up for it all, but sadly we will never know if it works as we've signed up to all this European Communism that restricts us from punishing accordingly. The Scottish Parliament have a £60 million purse set aside to pay prisoners who had to slop out, and the current administration are hellbent on this early release programme which has been proven to put law abiding citizens at risk. No wonder they are pressing to get prisoners a vote. They are the criminal's friend!

Don't know if you've heard this, but we had corporal punishment and hard labour in this country, and it didn't work. The criminals still committed crimes. The wicked and perverted - which these kids are - still existed.

On the broader subject of the breakdown of society, I hate to be a do gooder lefty, but I beleive that if you give people a sense of purpose and dignity through providing them with hope for the future, it will be a lot more effective than any punishment.

A generation or so ago, people had the prospect of a life's employment to look forward to. Now, nothing is guaranteed, so is it any wonder that people have no respect for themselves or others.

The right wing alternative seems to be - thrash them till they comply. The problem is that once you've battered people a few times it really doesn't persuade them to change.

[hibsdaft]

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The wicked and perverted - which these kids are - still existed.

and the very same wicked and perverted actually targeted the jobs were they could act out their perversions with the backing of the law in the roles CG's is suggesting we recreate. as an aside, this is a difference between liberal and illiberal rather than left and right. you'll find the Soviet Union was not exactly soft on the likes of this kid.

this incident itself is totally shocking and that's why everyone has posted on this thread - that its so shocking imo reflects the fact that incidents of wicked perversion such as this are rare.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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and the very same wicked and perverted actually targeted the jobs were they could act out their perversions with the backing of the law in the roles CG's is suggesting we recreate. as an aside, this is a difference between liberal and illiberal rather than left and right. you'll find the Soviet Union was not exactly soft on the likes of this kid.

this incident itself is totally shocking and that's why everyone has posted on this thread - that its so shocking imo reflects the fact that incidents of wicked perversion such as this are rare.

Blaming the Soviet Union for the failure of socialism is like blaming Jesus for the Spanish Inquisition.

I think you are right, I prefer to think that things like this are very rare. Like tornados, and floods, they are freaks of nature that we cannot do anything about.

My previous point was really a reply to the suggestion that harder punishments will solve everything.

[Woody1985]

This is what I was talking about in an earlier post.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/s...re/8233822.stm

[hibsdaft]

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Blaming the Soviet Union for the failure of socialism is like blaming Jesus for the Spanish Inquisition.

I think you are right, I prefer to think that things like this are very rare. Like tornados, and floods, they are freaks of nature that we cannot do anything about.

My previous point was really a reply to the suggestion that harder punishments will solve everything.

sorry - half of my post was directed to corrie greens (in responce to his "left wing approach to crime" wind-up fantasy bit ;-) ) but i forgot it was you i'd quoted.

[Sir David Gray]

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3 years in a Y.O. unit, a HUGE DOSE of councilling and a couple of trips white water rafting.

That really wouldn't surprise me.

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Life imprisonment is a extremely harsh for this crime considering it was perpretrated by juveniles. The crime is very serious but to suggest such a punishment in a complete overreaction to the story.

I honestly couldn't care less what age they are. If you are capable of committing a crime like that, I believe that you should be locked up for a very long time.

My thoughts are solely with the young girl who had to endure this horrific attack. The fact that the people who committed this offence are juveniles is of absolutely no relevance to me and I do not believe that it should be taken into consideration when passing sentence on them.

At 13 and 14, you are perfectly aware of the difference between right and wrong and they knew what they were doing to that girl was wrong but they did it anyway.

They should all be handed lengthy prison sentences for this crime but borders.cabbage might not actually be too far away in his assessment that these three may just be offered counselling sessions with a youth worker, a couple of years in a YOI and then countless trips to Hampden, M&D's etc. when they get out, to try and bribe them into behaving.

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if that ended up being the case.

[BEEJ]

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Don't know if you've heard this, but we had corporal punishment and hard labour in this country, and it didn't work. The criminals still committed crimes. The wicked and perverted - which these kids are - still existed.

On the broader subject of the breakdown of society, I hate to be a do gooder lefty, but I beleive that if you give people a sense of purpose and dignity through providing them with hope for the future, it will be a lot more effective than any punishment.

A generation or so ago, people had the prospect of a life's employment to look forward to. Now, nothing is guaranteed, so is it any wonder that people have no respect for themselves or others.

The right wing alternative seems to be - thrash them till they comply. The problem is that once you've battered people a few times it really doesn't persuade them to change.

Noble thoughts.

Unfortunately, human nature being what it is, there also has to be a deterrent.

If there were no unpleasnt consequences for committing heinous crimes but only the prospect of several years in a soft-touch rehabilitation programme, people would go out and do whatever they pleased. And inevitably the innocent and weaker in society would suffer.

(And another thought. Was there really the same degree of perversion in crime 70 or 80 years ago or before? If there was, why did Brady and Hindley cause so much of an outcry with their appalling crime in the 1960s?)

[CropleyWasGod]

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That really wouldn't surprise me.





that these three may just be offered counselling sessions with a youth worker, It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if that ended up being the case.

... as they should. Apart from the deterrent and punishment aspect of our system, there must also be a rehabilitation element as well. Whether or not it's "the parents fault" or they're just evil, kids of that age must be given every chance to mend themselves. It's part of what we are as a society.

[Green Mikey]

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That really wouldn't surprise me.

I honestly couldn't care less what age they are. If you are capable of committing a crime like that, I believe that you should be locked up for a very long time.

My thoughts are solely with the young girl who had to endure this horrific attack. The fact that the people who committed this offence are juveniles is of absolutely no relevance to me and I do not believe that it should be taken into consideration when passing sentence on them.

At 13 and 14, you are perfectly aware of the difference between right and wrong and they knew what they were doing to that girl was wrong but they did it anyway.

They should all be handed lengthy prison sentences for this crime but borders.cabbage might not actually be too far away in his assessment that these three may just be offered counselling sessions with a youth worker, a couple of years in a YOI and then countless trips to Hampden, M&D's etc. when they get out, to try and bribe them into behaving.

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if that ended up being the case.

Falkirk, on many other threads you have been the great defender of the Christian faith however none of this seems to be evident in your vitriolic condemnation of this crime.

Do you not agree with the New Testament and the concepts of forgiveness and 'turn the other cheek'? If you do, it is not clear in your posts.

Personally, I think that the perpetrators deserve serious punishment however you seem to believe that thy should be allowed no quarter. How does this reconcile with Christian beliefs?

[Jack]

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Hard to provide any solutions really. In reality, wherever they go whether it be jail, or young offenders institutes, they are probably going to meet other radges, and remain radges themselves with no interest whatsoever in rehabilitation.

It's easy for sensible people like ourselves to say "send them to jail" and think that they'll suddenly have a good look at themselves and turn over a new leaf. The sad fact is that these bams do not seem to care about their futures, or much of anything other than "battering wide c**ts", getting pished / high, and being the "hardest" person in their peer group. That basically seems to be it for these characters in life and I honestly don't know how things can change?

Anyone?

Perhaps there should be a different type of sentencing.

There's a common theme here rounded up by the term ‘feral kids’ which I think describes them perfectly. Society has lost more than one generation. How these feral families are brought back in to society before crimes like this are committed I’m not sure.

But given these families have had no positive guidance from role models perhaps we will have to consider educating them so that the errors/negligence of their upbringing is addressed. Sounds a bit George Orwellian!

What we do know is that they will inevitably engage with the criminal justice system. Maybe they should be locked up / removed from society [for a minimum period depending on the crime and] until they appreciate what their role within society should be i.e. they get 3 years but if they don’t understand and engage with the concept of living ‘normally’ within society they stay locked up until they do!

Maybe these social workers etc. who seemingly work so hard to keep these criminals out of jail and keep them on the straight and narrow on the outside should work with these criminals in jail.

[Sir David Gray]

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Falkirk, on many other threads you have been the great defender of the Christian faith however none of this seems to be evident in your vitriolic condemnation of this crime.

Do you not agree with the New Testament and the concepts of forgiveness and 'turn the other cheek'? If you do, it is not clear in your posts.

Personally, I think that the perpetrators deserve serious punishment however you seem to believe that thy should be allowed no quarter. How does this reconcile with Christian beliefs?

A lot of people seem to think that being a Christian=being soft on people who commit crime.

I believe that it is only the people who are the victims of crime who are in a position to forgive. If I was ever the victim of crime, as a Christian, I would have to try very hard to find it in my heart to forgive the person who committed the crime against me.

However, I also believe that if you commit a crime, you have to face the consequences of your actions. That means that if the crime is serious enough then the punishment should be a lengthy custodial sentence.

"Turning the other cheek" also has many interpretations. I would personally take it to mean that you shouldn't fight violence with violence. I don't believe that it means that people who commit serious crimes shouldn't be put in prison.

These three people knew what they were doing and have probably scarred that young girl for life, in an unimaginable way. They should be locked up for a very long time.

[BravestHibs]

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A lot of people seem to think that being a Christian=being soft on people who commit crime.

I believe that it is only the people who are the victims of crime who are in a position to forgive. If I was ever the victim of crime, as a Christian, I would have to try very hard to find it in my heart to forgive the person who committed the crime against me.

However, I also believe that if you commit a crime, you have to face the consequences of your actions. That means that if the crime is serious enough then the punishment should be a lengthy custodial sentence.

"Turning the other cheek" also has many interpretations. I would personally take it to mean that you shouldn't fight violence with violence. I don't believe that it means that people who commit serious crimes shouldn't be put in prison.

These three people knew what they were doing and have probably scarred that young girl for life, in an unimaginable way. They should be locked up for a very long time.

I always thought the opposite actually. Certainly when you look at the right wing in the US anyway. Despite bleating on about forgiveness and quoting the bible as though it's perfectly normal to do so in a secular society, I find revenge to be their main motivator. As seems to be the case with Falkirk.

With the second point I highlighted, would you say that we can only forgive as individuals or would we not all be better off if we could forgive as a society?

[CropleyWasGod]

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A lot of people seem to think that being a Christian=being soft on people who commit crime.

I believe that it is only the people who are the victims of crime who are in a position to forgive. If I was ever the victim of crime, as a Christian, I would have to try very hard to find it in my heart to forgive the person who committed the crime against me.

.

To mix the Biblical metaphors, that's a very Pontius Pilate response. As the poster before put it, society also has that power.

Would you not also accept, as a Christian, that redemption has to play its part too? The perpetrators, especially given their age (and, although not using it as an excuse, probably a pretty awful life already), should be given a chance to redeem themselves. And I do mean that AFTER they have been punished.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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Noble thoughts.

Unfortunately, human nature being what it is, there also has to be a deterrent.

If there were no unpleasnt consequences for committing heinous crimes but only the prospect of several years in a soft-touch rehabilitation programme, people would go out and do whatever they pleased. And inevitably the innocent and weaker in society would suffer.

(And another thought. Was there really the same degree of perversion in crime 70 or 80 years ago or before? If there was, why did Brady and Hindley cause so much of an outcry with their appalling crime in the 1960s?)

I think human nature is at the heart of the dilemma. I beleive that the majority of people don't need the deterrent, because it is against our nature to inflict such cruelty. Those who have it in their nature won't be deterred.

I beleive that cruellty has always been something that is there in some people, so I would think there would be plenty crimes like this 70 or 80 years ago - think of Jack the Ripper, for example.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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A lot of people seem to think that being a Christian=being soft on people who commit crime.

I believe that it is only the people who are the victims of crime who are in a position to forgive. If I was ever the victim of crime, as a Christian, I would have to try very hard to find it in my heart to forgive the person who committed the crime against me.

However, I also believe that if you commit a crime, you have to face the consequences of your actions. That means that if the crime is serious enough then the punishment should be a lengthy custodial sentence.

"Turning the other cheek" also has many interpretations. I would personally take it to mean that you shouldn't fight violence with violence. I don't believe that it means that people who commit serious crimes shouldn't be put in prison.

These three people knew what they were doing and have probably scarred that young girl for life, in an unimaginable way. They should be locked up for a very long time.

Sorry mate, I don't want you to think this is part of a witch hunt - I respect your right to your opinions, even if I don't agree with them all. I honestly thought the core principle of christianity was about forgiveness. I can't see how some of the stuff some fundamentalists come out with (again, not getting at you) squares with what Jesus said.

[Sir David Gray]

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I always thought the opposite actually. Certainly when you look at the right wing in the US anyway. Despite bleating on about forgiveness and quoting the bible as though it's perfectly normal to do so in a secular society, I find revenge to be their main motivator. As seems to be the case with Falkirk.

With the second point I highlighted, would you say that we can only forgive as individuals or would we not all be better off if we could forgive as a society?

I believe that it is up to the person who has been wronged to decide if they feel able to forgive. I don't think that anyone else is in a position to forgive, apart from the relatives of someone who has been murdered, perhaps.

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To mix the Biblical metaphors, that's a very Pontius Pilate response. As the poster before put it, society also has that power.

Would you not also accept, as a Christian, that redemption has to play its part too? The perpetrators, especially given their age (and, although not using it as an excuse, probably a pretty awful life already), should be given a chance to redeem themselves. And I do mean that AFTER they have been punished.

Of course, redemption is a huge part of Christianity.

I have seen countless TV shows that have featured people who have been involved in serious crime, have spent time in prison and then they have become Christians and have chosen to do something good with their life and have spoken out against knife crime, gun crime or whatever it was they were involved in previously.

It is possible for some people to change but not everyone wants to.

I would be inclined to say that I would be happy to see all criminals released as soon as they show genuine remorse for their crimes but I think it's far too easy for someone to say "Oh yes, I'm really sorry for what I've done and it will never happen again", if they know that kind of comment will probably get them released.

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Sorry mate, I don't want you to think this is part of a witch hunt - I respect your right to your opinions, even if I don't agree with them all. I honestly thought the core principle of christianity was about forgiveness. I can't see how some of the stuff some fundamentalists come out with (again, not getting at you) squares with what Jesus said.

I wasn't really saying anything about forgiveness, though as I think it's up to individual people to decide if they want to forgive. If someone was to commit a crime against me, I would need to try hard to forgive that person as that is what Christians should do. What I am saying is, I think everyone who commits a crime, should be punished and if the crime's serious enough then that person should receive a lengthy custodial sentence.

Maybe that isn't what Jesus would say and therefore maybe that makes me a bad Christian. I'll let others judge that for themselves. I can only ever say what I genuinely believe in, on every single issue.

[NaeTechnoHibby]

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I believe that it is up to the person who has been wronged to decide if they feel able Most deid ..

It is possible for some people to change but not everyone wants to. Righty ho!!

I would be inclined to say that I would be happy to see all criminals released as soon as they show genuine remorse for their crimes but I think it's far too easy for someone to say "Oh yes, I'm really sorry for what I've done and it will never happen again", if they know that kind of comment will probably get them released.
Good oan ye, not my bag though

I wasn't really saying anything about forgiveness, though as I think it's up to individual people to decide if they want to forgive. If someone was to commit a crime against me, I would need to try hard to forgive that person as that is what Christians should do. What I am saying is, I think everyone who commits a crime, should be punished and if the crime's serious enough then that person should receive a lengthy custodial sentence.

And what about arabs throwing sticks an stones at tanks/APV's oan in Palestine

Maybe that isn't what Jesus would say and therefore maybe that makes me a bad Christian. I'll let others judge that for themselves. I can only ever say what I genuinely believe in, on every single issue.

I have never had a beleilf in organised religion since I was about 10 years old and it hasnae done me any harm

Load of bollocks tae control people without elections

[Hibrandenburg]

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I think human nature is at the heart of the dilemma. I beleive that the majority of people don't need the deterrent, because it is against our nature to inflict such cruelty. Those who have it in their nature won't be deterred.

I beleive that cruellty has always been something that is there in some people, so I would think there would be plenty crimes like this 70 or 80 years ago - think of Jack the Ripper, for example.

[BEEJ]

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I think human nature is at the heart of the dilemma. I beleive that the majority of people don't need the deterrent, because it is against our nature to inflict such cruelty. Those who have it in their nature won't be deterred.

So you would have no punishment in society for heinous crimes as it would derive no ultimate benefit.

Would the same rule apply then to 'lesser' crimes such as car theft or mugging? * Would you believe that human nature is suffciently self-regulating to ensure that in a sudden absence of judicial penalties there would be no upsurge in petty crimes, for example, for the purpose of material gain?

If so, you have far more faith in human nature than I have.

(* After all, it would be a pretty strange legal system if the more serious crimes committed resulted in rehabilitation whilst incarceration awaited the perpetrators of lesser crimes.)

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I beleive that cruellty has always been something that is there in some people, so I would think there would be plenty crimes like this 70 or 80 years ago - think of Jack the Ripper, for example.

So why did British society at the time find itself so revulsed by the Brady / Hindley crime - and continued to do so decades later? Perhaps instances of the prolonged physical torture of young children have been far less common in history?

[Phil D. Rolls]

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So you would have no punishment in society for heinous crimes as it would derive no ultimate benefit.

Would the same rule apply then to 'lesser' crimes such as car theft or mugging? * Would you believe that human nature is suffciently self-regulating to ensure that in a sudden absence of judicial penalties there would be no upsurge in petty crimes, for example, for the purpose of material gain?

If so, you have far more faith in human nature than I have.

(* After all, it would be a pretty strange legal system if the more serious crimes committed resulted in rehabilitation whilst incarceration awaited the perpetrators of lesser crimes.)


So why did British society at the time find itself so revulsed by the Brady / Hindley crime - and continued to do so decades later? Perhaps instances of the prolonged physical torture of young children have been far less common in history?

I think a punsihment should be used as a deterrent. If it doesn't deter people what is the point?

I would wager that every generation has had its Brady and Hindley. You just have to read the likes of the Illustrated London News from the 19th century, or old copies of the News of the World, to realise that perversion has always been there.

Furthermore, Brady and Hindley were caught, but they were hardly the first people to abduct and torture children. Paedophile rings have been doing it for centuries.

[Woody1985]

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I think a punsihment should be used as a deterrent. If it doesn't deter people what is the point?

I would wager that every generation has had its Brady and Hindley. You just have to read the likes of the Illustrated London News from the 19th century, or old copies of the News of the World, to realise that perversion has always been there.

Furthermore, Brady and Hindley were caught, but they were hardly the first people to abduct and torture children. Paedophile rings have been doing it for centuries.

That is one of the funniest things I have ever read. People will always commit crime and nothing will deter them. However, keeping them off the streets protects the innocent.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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That is one of the funniest things I have ever read. People will always commit crime and nothing will deter them. However, keeping them off the streets protects the innocent.

True. A very good argument for imprisonment.

[Woody1985]

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True. A very good argument for imprisonment.

What?

You don't think that keeping innocent people safe from being stabbed, mugged, murdered etc is a good enough reason. That should be the main priority of any civilised society. The place would turn into bandit country.

If there was no crime I could comfortably tell you that right now I'd be away to the nearest Dixon's to pick myself up a new 50" TV and a PS3 to play it. Even, better, I'd be telling the delivery driver he's bringing me home.

Community service / prison is enough of a deterrent for me not to do that. However, there will always be people who just don't give a **** and they should be locked up.

No wonder this country is in a complete mess when there are people with views like that. Please, please, please never become a politician.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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What?

You don't think that keeping innocent people safe from being stabbed, mugged, murdered etc is a good enough reason. That should be the main priority of any civilised society. The place would turn into bandit country.

If there was no crime I could comfortably tell you that right now I'd be away to the nearest Dixon's to pick myself up a new 50" TV and a PS3 to play it. Even, better, I'd be telling the delivery driver he's bringing me home.

Community service / prison is enough of a deterrent for me not to do that. However, there will always be people who just don't give a **** and they should be locked up.

No wonder this country is in a complete mess when there are people with views like that. Please, please, please never become a politician.

You're so rock n' roll. By the way, which part of "A very good argument for imprisonment." did you not understand?