The Trans Rights Debate

[James310]

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Checking out what women are wearing now. 😓

Lol, you are so desperate to score points against me you pick this? If I remember correctly it was mentioned numerous times on here during the Covid briefings when Sturgeon wore a very similar Hibs looking outfit.

[He's here!]

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Yes, you’ll never get a pro unionist question time audience.


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Yes that must have been the reason they didn't have any truck with a multiple rapist pretending to be a woman.

[Crunchie]

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It's base level debate, that is. Using an extreme example to demand a yes/no answer. If people stop to think for just a few seconds, they'll see that the wool is being pulled over their eyes by bigots likes her. The debate is way more complex than this.

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The only person using extreme examples was India, I suggest you're the one having the wool pulled over your eyes.

[Crunchie]

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Lol, you are so desperate to score points against me you pick this? If I remember correctly it was mentioned numerous times on here during the Covid briefings when Sturgeon wore a very similar Hibs looking outfit.

If you're not of a left leaning opinion you have to be very careful how you word/say something on here and in general.

[ronaldo7]

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Lol, you are so desperate to score points against me you pick this? If I remember correctly it was mentioned numerous times on here during the Covid briefings when Sturgeon wore a very similar Hibs looking outfit.

Not point scoring at all. Just seeing your post for what it is.

Any comment on the mens clothes?

[James310]

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Not point scoring at all. Just seeing your post for what it is.

Any comment on the mens clothes?

Yes they all looked very smart. Funny I don't remember you saying anything when the any other poster commented on the Hibs resemblance before or being critical of posters when attacking Liz Truss for her looks etc. I will make a special point of checking out if you criticise other posters next time they comment on a female politician. 👍

Did I imagine the previous comments from various posters about Sturgeon wearing an outfit that looked like the Hibs away top? Can you remember?

[ronaldo7]

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Yes they all looked very smart. Funny I don't remember you saying anything when the any other poster commented on the Hibs resemblance before or being critical of posters when attacking Liz Truss for her looks etc. I will make a special point of checking out if you criticise other posters next time they comment on a female politician. 👍

Did I imagine the previous comments from various posters about Sturgeon wearing an outfit that looked like the Hibs away top? Can you remember?

So the men looked smart but the women are wearing someone else's clothes.

Gotcha.

[James310]

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So the men looked smart but the women are wearing someone else's clothes.

Gotcha.

I am just glad you are defending woman, well done. You seemed to be hesitant to offer an opinion before. Do you think the rapist is a man or a woman? That's getting us right back on track isn't it. Do you agree with Keith Brown who says she is a woman or Nicola Sturgeon who doesn't seem to know?

[147lothian]

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It's base level debate, that is. Using an extreme example to demand a yes/no answer. If people stop to think for just a few seconds, they'll see that the wool is being pulled over their eyes by bigots likes her. The debate is way more complex than this.

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Why does it have to be complex? A rapist can only be a man and everyone knows that. The nonsense of gender identity politics was exposed by calling a rapist "The Individual", and trying to make it complex. It's not bigoted to asks if "The Individual" is a man or a woman, human beings can only be one or the other, it exposed how Gender Identity politics ties people in knots, and all of the audience could see that. It seems like your using words like bigot because you know the person you were supporting lost the argument in-front of a nation wide audience.

[Crunchie]

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Yes they all looked very smart. Funny I don't remember you saying anything when the any other poster commented on the Hibs resemblance before or being critical of posters when attacking Liz Truss for her looks etc. I will make a special point of checking out if you criticise other posters next time they comment on a female politician. 👍

Did I imagine the previous comments from various posters about Sturgeon wearing an outfit that looked like the Hibs away top? Can you remember?

His comments sum up what the extreme left are all about, pretty pathetic really. FWIW I think her outfit was eye catching for the colour too

[ronaldo7]

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I am just glad you are defending woman, well done. You seemed to be hesitant to offer an opinion before. Do you think the rapist is a man or a woman? That's getting us right back on track isn't it. Do you agree with Keith Brown who says she is a woman or Nicola Sturgeon who doesn't seem to know?

Im glad you're glad. Good for you. 😊

Given the two protagonists on QT last night at different ends of the spectrum on this threads content, I'd say, if I was to go back in time, one of them would have had a sign with, no blacks, Irish, or dogs in their window. The other one not so much.

You choose which is which.

[He's here!]

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Why does it have to be complex? A rapist can only be a man and everyone knows that. The nonsense of gender identity politics was exposed by calling a rapist "The Individual", and trying to make it complex. It's not bigoted to asks if "The Individual" is a man or a woman, human beings can only be one or the other, it exposed how Gender Identity politics ties people in knots, and all of the audience could see that. It seems like your using words like bigot because you know the person you were supporting lost the argument in-front of a nation wide audience.

Anyone claiming there's 'nuance' to the Bryson case is inevitably going to be left looking daft.

[James310]

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Im glad you're glad. Good for you. 😊

Given the two protagonists on QT last night at different ends of the spectrum on this threads content, I'd say, if I was to go back in time, one of them would have had a sign with, no blacks, Irish, or dogs in their window. The other one not so much.

You choose which is which.

Sorry but I asked you what you think, do you think the rapist is a man or a woman?

Like you said to me last night, you have not answered the question.

[McSwanky]

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Why does it have to be complex? A rapist can only be a man and everyone knows that. The nonsense of gender identity politics was exposed by calling a rapist "The Individual", and trying to make it complex. It's not bigoted to asks if "The Individual" is a man or a woman, human beings can only be one or the other, it exposed how Gender Identity politics ties people in knots, and all of the audience could see that. It seems like your using words like bigot because you know the person you were supporting lost the argument in-front of a nation wide audience.

It's complex because it's a way bigger issue than just the prisons issue. But folks like Douglas Ross and Ella Whelan are successfully diverting the debate to be ALL about side issues like this.

I'd like to think most people agree that people should be allwed to live the life they want without fear of discrimination or worse, and for me that's what this legislation is about. As I said before, it's not perfect - and will no doubt be subject to more amendment and debate in the future to make it work for everyone. But the intentions are hopefully something people can get behind rather than this constant back and forth around the prisons issue - which existed before this legislation was a thing.

As for the coments earlier about 'articulating majority public opinion' - if we always went with majority public opinion, we'd be in an even worse state than we already are in this country. Especially with the nick of our press. There's nothing wrong with doing the right thing despite majority public opinion.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Why does it have to be complex? A rapist can only be a man and everyone knows that. The nonsense of gender identity politics was exposed by calling a rapist "The Individual", and trying to make it complex. It's not bigoted to asks if "The Individual" is a man or a woman, human beings can only be one or the other, it exposed how Gender Identity politics ties people in knots, and all of the audience could see that. It seems like your using words like bigot because you know the person you were supporting lost the argument in-front of a nation wide audience.

That's not true.

Intersex people are both and neither, and a biological reality . They are the I in LGBTQIA.

This might help:-

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/ne...ed-to-shatter/

[ronaldo7]

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Sorry but I asked you what you think, do you think the rapist is a man or a woman?

Like you said to me last night, you have not answered the question.

I've no idea at what stage of transitioning the rapist is.

However when he raped those women he was a man.

Do you know what stage of transitioning the rapist is currently at?

[James310]

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I've no idea at what stage of transitioning the rapist is.

However when he raped those women he was a man.

Do you know what stage of transitioning the rapist is currently at?

But the trans ideology that the SG support says a man is a woman if they say so, this rapist says they are woman so aren't you being transphobic by not saying he is a woman? Why does it matter where they are on their journey, if they say they are a woman then they are a woman?

You don't need to transition or take hormones etc, you are just a woman because you say you are. That's the whole point of self ID.

So if the GRA was passed you are comfortable with men just saying they are women because they say they are, doesn't sound like you are if you need to now where they are in their transition journey.

See this is what happens, people tie themselves in knots as you have shown.

[ronaldo7]

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But the trans ideology that the SG support says a man is a woman if they say so, this rapist says they are woman so aren't you being transphobic by not saying he is a woman? Why does it matter where they are on their journey, if they say they are a woman then they are a woman?

You don't need to transition or take hormones etc, you are just a woman because you say you are. That's the whole point of self ID.

So if the GRA was passed you are comfortable with men just saying they are women because they say they are, doesn't sound like you are if you need to now where they are in their transition journey.

See this is what happens, people tie themselves in knots as you have shown.

I've given you the answer you asked for as the law currently stands.

The rest of your hypotheticals are just that. Hypothetical.

[He's here!]

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I've no idea at what stage of transitioning the rapist is.

However when he raped those women he was a man.

Do you know what stage of transitioning the rapist is currently at?

Claimed at the trial to be taking hormones and now wanting surgery but the reality is that his 'transitioning' extends only to putting on a wig, make-up and a pink jacket. Even Sturgeon was forced to concede he's a fake.

[James310]

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I've given you the answer you asked for as the law currently stands.

The rest of your hypotheticals are just that. Hypothetical.

You are actually breaking the SNPs own code of conduct on transphobia. It states:

Transphobia may manifest in a number of ways, including, but not limited to:

"using phrases or language to suggest [someone’s] gender identity is not valid"

If the rapist says she is a woman then she is a woman according to the SNP code of conduct. Keith Brown Deputy Leader was clear, the rapist is a woman when he was asked. You are questioning on what stage on their journey this person is and not accepting they are a woman. Therefore breaking the rule above suggesting someone's gender identity is not valid as you wanted to know if they were taking hormones or has surgery etc. Only then could you decide if the person was a woman.

The whole point of self ID is someone is a woman if they say they are, nothing to do with where they are on a transition journey.

Under the SNPs code you would be transphobic, but I reckon you aren't, you probably like most of us want a solution that meets the needs of the majority on both sides.

When ideology crashes into the real world. It ties people in knots.

[archie]

This is an interesting thread from an advocate on the issues around the rapist case, FM answer yesterday and self ID.

https://twitter.com/Broonjunior/stat...49053416689666

[AugustaHibs]

Sturgeon has lost the plot.

So now the snp government can decide your gender.

Which one is it nicky?!?

[The Harp Awakes]

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You are actually breaking the SNPs own code of conduct on transphobia. It states:

Transphobia may manifest in a number of ways, including, but not limited to:

"using phrases or language to suggest [someone’s] gender identity is not valid"

If the rapist says she is a woman then she is a woman according to the SNP code of conduct. Keith Brown Deputy Leader was clear, the rapist is a woman when he was asked. You are questioning on what stage on their journey this person is and not accepting they are a woman. Therefore breaking the rule above suggesting someone's gender identity is not valid as you wanted to know if they were taking hormones or has surgery etc. Only then could you decide if the person was a woman.

The whole point of self ID is someone is a woman if they say they are, nothing to do with where they are on a transition journey.

Under the SNPs code you would be transphobic, but I reckon you aren't, you probably like most of us want a solution that meets the needs of the majority on both sides.

When ideology crashes into the real world. It ties people in knots.

Looking through your recent posts on the subject, there seems to be quite a lot of bluster and emotion in them, mixed with your usual attempts at trying to make out that everything which happens in this world is the SNP's fault.

The GRR Bill had cross party support in Holyrood and whether you agree with its passing or not, the subject itself is apolitical.

What is political, is the Westminster Government blocking the Bill, which had gone through years of scrutiny. They have had ample time to make comment on the Bill, but chose the nuclear option after it was passed.

I found Ms Gilruth's claim on QT last night telling, i.e, that the Westminster Government, when pressed by the SG during recent conversations to outline what they think needs to be changed in the Bill, refused to say. That to me suggests that the blocking is all about putting Holyrood in their place rather than any interest in improving the content.

[The Harp Awakes]

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Sturgeon has lost the plot.

So now the snp government can decide your gender.

Which one is it nicky?!?

Did you read that in the Daily Mail or Express?

Also interesting how you, those facsist rags and tory mouthpieces like the BBC always refer to Scotland's first minister by her surname v nice wee Rishi or Sir Keir.

[James310]

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Looking through your recent posts on the subject, there seems to be quite a lot of bluster and emotion in them, mixed with your usual attempts at trying to make out that everything which happens in this world is the SNP's fault.

The GRR Bill had cross party support in Holyrood and whether you agree with its passing or not, the subject itself is apolitical.

What is political, is the Westminster Government blocking the Bill, which had gone through years of scrutiny. They have had ample time to make comment on the Bill, but chose the nuclear option after it was passed.

I found Ms Gilruth's claim on QT last night telling, i.e, that the Westminster Government, when pressed by the SG during recent conversations to outline what they think needs to be changed in the Bill, refused to say. That to me suggests that the blocking is all about putting Holyrood in their place rather than any interest in improving the content.

What's your view them? Is the rapist a man or a woman?

[ronaldo7]

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You are actually breaking the SNPs own code of conduct on transphobia. It states:

Transphobia may manifest in a number of ways, including, but not limited to:

"using phrases or language to suggest [someone’s] gender identity is not valid"

If the rapist says she is a woman then she is a woman according to the SNP code of conduct. Keith Brown Deputy Leader was clear, the rapist is a woman when he was asked. You are questioning on what stage on their journey this person is and not accepting they are a woman. Therefore breaking the rule above suggesting someone's gender identity is not valid as you wanted to know if they were taking hormones or has surgery etc. Only then could you decide if the person was a woman.

The whole point of self ID is someone is a woman if they say they are, nothing to do with where they are on a transition journey.

Under the SNPs code you would be transphobic, but I reckon you aren't, you probably like most of us want a solution that meets the needs of the majority on both sides.

When ideology crashes into the real world. It ties people in knots.

My view that he was a man when he raped is a view held in many parties across the spectrum, and within the SNP.

Contrary to popular unionist belief, we are allowed to have a different view on such topics.

Watching QT last night it's all become very noisy from some who don't want to listen. The abuse India Willoughby has taken this morning is well out of order.

[archie]

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That's not true.

Intersex people are both and neither, and a biological reality . They are the I in LGBTQIA.

This might help:-

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/ne...ed-to-shatter/

As might this https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2022/...-sean-carroll/

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/esqueer_/status/...zkfKy3acNzA_zw

Quite a coalition getting built.


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[James310]

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My view that he was a man when he raped is a view held in many parties across the spectrum, and within the SNP.

Contrary to popular unionist belief, we are allowed to have a different view on such topics.

Watching QT last night it's all become very noisy from some who don't want to listen. The abuse India Willoughby has taken this morning is well out of order.

I am not asking what he was when he raped, of course he was a man as in law only a man can commit rape.

I am asking you what do you believe "the individual" is now, a woman or a man?

[archie]

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My view that he was a man when he raped is a view held in many parties across the spectrum, and within the SNP.

Contrary to popular unionist belief, we are allowed to have a different view on such topics.

Watching QT last night it's all become very noisy from some who don't want to listen. The abuse India Willoughby has taken this morning is well out of order.

I know you are determined to make this about 'unionists' but do you acknowledge that many 'nationalists' have real issues with the legislation?