The Trans Rights Debate

[Stairway 2 7]

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The word "re-educated" wasn't even used. They used the term "re-frame", which is a very common practice in trauma therapy to help victims move on from their ordeal.

Once again clutching at straws. The reframing she was talking about was changing a rape victims opinion on wanting female only rape care, not dealing with their trauma. Vile and pretty repugnant that you are defending it.

Why the f would you spend time changing someone's opinions on trans issues just after they have been raped. Absolutely weirdo of a person she is

[Berwickhibby]

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Ok, I'm going to ask this again for the umpteenth time on this thread and for the last time as going around in circles and getting no answer is becoming tiresome.

Why on earth would a sexual predator wait 3 whole months in order to gain legal access to women only spaces, only to then do something illegal, when they can just enter illegally anyway?

Sexual predators do not require a GRB to enter female spaces. They just go ahead and do it anyway.

Sexual predators are devious and cunning, from my experience they can be organised and patient. There are many refuges that are female only with lots of vulnerable women. What a great opportunity to gain access.

[archie]

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The word "re-educated" wasn't even used. They used the term "re-frame", which is a very common practice in trauma therapy to help victims move on from their ordeal.

The context was that if rape victims wanted women only spaces and wouldn't accept a biological male was a woman then they were bigoted and would be 'challenged on their predudices'. Is there nothing about that concerns you?

[Stairway 2 7]

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Every victim is different and their wishes and wants have to be paramount in their recovery

Not according to Edinburgh rape crisis Scotland

[Ozyhibby]

You are all arguing points that have been debated and voted on already in the Scottish Parliament. That won’t be changed now.
All that matters now is if Alistair Jack has put forward a legal case that holds. Has he?


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[archie]

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You are all arguing points that have been debated and voted on already in the Scottish Parliament. That won’t be changed now.
All that matters now is if Alistair Jack has put forward a legal case that holds. Has he?


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The courts will decide. The test is just noise.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

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Once again clutching at straws. The reframing she was talking about was changing a rape victims opinion on wanting female only rape care, not dealing with their trauma. Vile and pretty repugnant that you are defending it.

Why the f would you spend time changing someone's opinions on trans issues just after they have been raped. Absolutely weirdo of a person she is

Wadhwa also told The Guilty Feminist podcast that rape survivors could “reframe” their trauma and have “a more positive relationship with it”.

She was referring to their trauma, not their negative assumptions about transgender people. You've taken her comments out of context in order to manufacture a grievance.

Which is ironic, because it very much falls into the category of negative assumptions that people make about transgender people.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

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Sexual predators are devious and cunning, from my experience they can be organised and patient. There are many refuges that are female only with lots of vulnerable women. What a great opportunity to gain access.

This doesn't make any sense. It's not as if Scotland is a place where we have security guards standing outside women's toilets and changing rooms to assess who can enter and who can't. There's literally nothing to stop a man from walking directly into such a place and committing a sexual assault. This was the case before the GRA and will still be the case after it. Male sexual predators don't gain some additional advantage by waiting 3 months to have a gender recognition change. It doesn't allow them to do anything that they can't do already.

[archie]

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Wadhwa also told The Guilty Feminist podcast that rape survivors could “reframe” their trauma and have “a more positive relationship with it”.

She was referring to their trauma, not their negative assumptions about transgender people. You've take her comments out of context in order to manufacture a grievance.

Which is ironic, because it very much falls into the category of negative assumptions that people make about transgender people.

Are you ok with the stated view that people who are raped and want single sex spaces and care are bigoted?

[James310]

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This doesn't make any sense. It's not as if Scotland is a place where we have security guards standing outside women's toilets and changing rooms to assess who can enter and who can't. There's literally nothing to stop a man from walking directly into such a place and committing a sexual assault. This was the case before the GRA and will still be the case after it. Male sexual predators don't gain some additional advantage by waiting 3 months to have a gender recognition change. It doesn't allow them to do anything that they can't do already.

A GRC obtained by self ID doesn't exist in Scotland today so you can't say it doesn't allow them to do anything they can't do already when the thing you are talking about doesn't even exist today. How do you know what a man in possession of a self ID GRC will or will not do? You can't as nobody has one today.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

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Are you ok with the stated view that people who are raped and want single sex spaces and care are bigoted?

No i'm not. But then again, that's not the view that was stated. It was simply pointed out that even victims of sexual assault can harbour bigoted views. She didn't say that vulnerable women who wish to have a biological female support worker were bigots. Nowhere in her comments was such a connection made.

[Berwickhibby]

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This doesn't make any sense. It's not as if Scotland is a place where we have security guards standing outside women's toilets and changing rooms to assess who can enter and who can't. There's literally nothing to stop a man from walking directly into such a place and committing a sexual assault. This was the case before the GRA and will still be the case after it. Male sexual predators don't gain some additional advantage by waiting 3 months to have a gender recognition change. It doesn't allow them to do anything that they can't do already.

Visited many women’s refuges? I know of some that even a male Dr cannot enter, however a man with a certificate can be granted access. As I mentioned earlier, it is not genuine transgender people that concern me, it’s deviants who could use this legislation to their advantage

[007]

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Ok, I'm going to ask this again for the umpteenth time on this thread and for the last time as going around in circles and getting no answer is becoming tiresome.

Why on earth would a sexual predator wait 3 whole months in order to gain legal access to women only spaces, only to then do something illegal, when they can just enter illegally anyway?

Sexual predators do not require a GRB to enter female spaces. They just go ahead and do it anyway.

Maybe so they can see if there's an opportunity to do something illegal. They're not going to do something illegal if there are several women around so might just come back the next day and hope there's a single women. Is that not how predators operate? They wait for the right moment to strike.

[archie]

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No i'm not. But then again, that's not the view that was stated. It was simply pointed out that even victims of sexual assault can harbour bigoted views. She didn't say that vulnerable women who wish to have a biological female support worker were bigots. Nowhere in her comments was such a connection made.

So what bigoted views do you think were being referred to?

[TrumpIsAPeado]

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A GRC obtained by self ID doesn't exist in Scotland today so you can't say it doesn't allow them to do anything they can't do already when the thing you are talking about doesn't even exist today. How do you know what a man in possession of a self ID GRC will or will not do? You can't as nobody has one today.

You're right, it doesn't exist yet. But do you know what does exist? Men entering women only spaces and committing sexual crimes. No GRC required.

The idea that a sexual predator would wait 3 months for a GRC in order to do something that they can just go ahead and do regardless is beyond nonsensical.

[007]

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You're right, it doesn't exist yet. But do you know what does exist? Men entering women only spaces and committing sexual crimes. No GRC required.

The idea that a sexual predator would wait 3 months for a GRC in order to do something that they can just go ahead and do regardless is beyond nonsensical.

All the more reason it shouldn't be made easier for them to enter women only spaces looking for opportunities and when there isn't one just moving onto to the next place.

[James310]

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You're right, it doesn't exist yet. But do you know what does exist? Men entering women only spaces and committing sexual crimes. No GRC required.

The idea that a sexual predator would wait 3 months for a GRC in order to do something that they can just go ahead and do regardless is beyond nonsensical.

I think you underestimate the lengths some predators would go to. Some men groom victims for years, a 3 month process that nobody checks anything on isn't going to bother them.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

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Visited many women’s refuges? I know of some that even a male Dr cannot enter, however a man with a certificate can be granted access. As I mentioned earlier, it is not genuine transgender people that concern me, it’s deviants who could use this legislation to their advantage

Why would a sexual deviant want to specifically target women's refuges when they have a multitude of options open to them anyway? Considering the small percentage of actual sexual abusers over society as a whole, what do you honestly think the likelihood is of a sexual abuser with no previous criminal convictions, waiting 3 months so they can pretend to be a woman, just so they can specifically target a women's refuge? I would say not very likely at all. It's not exactly a place where they'd be less likely to be caught, considering these are vulnerable women who have a close watch over them at all times to ensure their own safety.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

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All the more reason it shouldn't be made easier for them to enter women only spaces looking for opportunities and when there isn't one just moving onto to the next place.

It literally couldn't be any easier for them. There's nothing to prevent a man from simply walking into a female changing room and committing a sexual assault. A GRC doesn't offer them some special advantage.

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I think you underestimate the lengths some predators would go to. Some men groom victims for years, a 3 month process that nobody checks anything on isn't going to bother them.

What length is that? A GRC doesn't allow them to do anything that they're already capable of doing without one. Some predators wait for the "right opportunity", but a GRC doesn't add anything to that opportunity.

[James310]

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It literally couldn't be any easier for them. There's nothing to prevent a man from simply walking into a female changing room and committing a sexual assault. A GRC doesn't offer them some special advantage.



What length is that? A GRC doesn't allow them to do anything that they're already capable of doing without one. Some predators wait for the "right opportunity", but a GRC doesn't add anything to that opportunity.

We will just need to agree to disagree, you can't know that for certain as the self ID GRC doesn't exist today so you can't predict with confidence how men will use it for their advantage. It will give men more confidence to perhaps enter spaces they would not normally be confident entering if they have a GRC in their back pocket.

[007]

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It literally couldn't be any easier for them. There's nothing to prevent a man from simply walking into a female changing room and committing a sexual assault. A GRC doesn't offer them some special advantage.opportunity.

So it isn't going to make it any easier for them to commit an offence?

[greenlex]

[QUOTE=007;7236544]

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It literally couldn't be any easier for them. There's nothing to prevent a man from simply walking into a female changing room and committing a sexual assault. A GRC doesn't offer them some special advantage.

So it isn't going to make it any easier for them to commit an offence?

No

[Berwickhibby]

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Why would a sexual deviant want to specifically target women's refuges when they have a multitude of options open to them anyway? Considering the small percentage of actual sexual abusers over society as a whole, what do you honestly think the likelihood is of a sexual abuser with no previous criminal convictions, waiting 3 months so they can pretend to be a woman, just so they can specifically target a women's refuge? I would say not very likely at all. It's not exactly a place where they'd be less likely to be caught, considering these are vulnerable women who have a close watch over them at all times to ensure their own safety.

If you honestly believe that there is only a small percentage of sexual abusers in society then you are deluded, A lot of what you say about stranger attacks could be true about just doing what they feel like. However most predators gain their victims trust, groom them. My objection to this legislation was there was no checks or balances or someone obtaining this certificate and abusing it. The saddest part is those who wish to transition genuinely are the ones who will likely the one who come under the most scrutiny

[007]

[QUOTE=greenlex;7236547]

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No

And you and HarpOnHibee can 100% guarantee that?

[TrumpIsAPeado]

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We will just need to agree to disagree, you can't know that for certain as the self ID GRC doesn't exist today so you can't predict with confidence how men will use it for their advantage. It will give men more confidence to perhaps enter spaces they would not normally be confident entering if they have a GRC in their back pocket.

More confidence to carry out a sexual assault? More confidence to get their name on the sex offenders register? More confidence to go to jail?

Because of a piece of paper in their back pocket?

[TrumpIsAPeado]

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So it isn't going to make it any easier for them to commit an offence?

Why would it?

[007]

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Why would it?

For the reasons I posted in reply to you earlier.

Can you 100% guarantee it won't?

[TrumpIsAPeado]

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For the reasons I posted in reply to you earlier.

Can you 100% guarantee it won't?

You didn't give reasons. You said something about a predator going away then returning the next day in the hope of there being only a single women present because they wouldn't do something illegal if there were several women around.

I don't see what that has to do with whether they have a Gender Recognition Certificate or not.

[007]

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You didn't give reasons. You said something about a predator going away then returning the next day in the hope of there being only a single women present because they wouldn't do something illegal if there were several women around.

I don't see what that has to do with whether they have a Gender Recognition Certificate or not.

And you didn't give a 100% guarantee it wouldn't make it any easier for them to commit an offence. You're happy to suggest it wouldn't but cannot 100% guarantee it.

[WeeRussell]

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All the more reason it shouldn't be made easier for them to enter women only spaces looking for opportunities and when there isn't one just moving onto to the next place.

Wouldn’t it be quicker and easier for them just to put a wig and dress on if this is really how sexual deviants are going to operate?

I’ve never seen anyone ID’d to enter a toilet.