The Trans Rights Debate

[CropleyWasGod]

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Excuse any ignorance in this question... it looks like it recognises a 3rd sex (As opposed to gender, where there's a wider recognition of more than two) - or is there more to it?

Maggie Chapman was talking about non-binary, which is a gender issue. Here's a useful starting point:-

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_recognition_of_non-binary_gender

[CropleyWasGod]

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Thanks, what's the third gender called? What would appear on someone's birth certificate I wonder?

It's called non-binary in most Western countries. Other cultures have different names.

On official documents, it could be many things, depending on the jurisdiction. The US, I believe, uses X instead of M or F on its passports.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Maggie Chapman was talking about non-binary, which is a gender issue. Here's a useful starting point:-

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_recognition_of_non-binary_gender

Chapman want kids over 6 to change sex without a reflection period. A headcase who can thank the wee man that she gets a big msp wage

[heretoday]

It's about mens attitude to women, especially "white van men" and the like. We've all seen and heard them.

They're the ones who go on to perpetrate violence towards women. If any of them obtain access to womens spaces as a result of this bill and commit crime it's a man doing it. It's nothing to do with transgender individuals.
Furthermore, the liklihood of it happening is infinitesimal according to stats from Ireland, Norway, Denmark and Switzerland where this legislation already exists.
Or are we saying that our men have worse attitudes towards females than those in other countries and can't be trusted?
Well, that's the main problem then, isn't it!

[danhibees1875]

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Maggie Chapman was talking about non-binary, which is a gender issue. Here's a useful starting point:-

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_recognition_of_non-binary_gender

Danke

[Stairway 2 7]

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It's about mens attitude to women, especially "white van men" and the like. We've all seen and heard them.

They're the ones who go on to perpetrate violence towards women. If any of them obtain access to womens spaces as a result of this bill and commit crime it's a man doing it. It's nothing to do with transgender individuals.
Furthermore, the liklihood of it happening is infinitesimal according to stats from Ireland, Norway, Denmark and Switzerland where this legislation already exists.
Or are we saying that our men have worse attitudes towards females than those in other countries and can't be trusted?
Well, that's the main problem then, isn't it!

It's really no about that. It's about a dozen other instances and women's rights and wishes that are being eroded. Sexual assault is simplistic for a complex set of issues

[archie]

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2 weeks paternity in some cases, if they are literally a man now? Lots to iron out.

I read that trans women can take seats set aside for women in company boards now and it's utterly disgusting. Although each company can decide after a backlash. Life is tough for women as it is without losing out more of what they thought decades for

Kirsty Blackman has said that where there is a requirement for 50/50 male/female split on a board that it's fine if the female portion is made up of trans women.

[archie]

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Maggie Chapman was talking about non-binary, which is a gender issue. Here's a useful starting point:-

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_recognition_of_non-binary_gender

Is it a gender issue? Isn't part of this mess the conflation of gender and sex? My (admittedly limited) understanding of intersex people was that they had dominant characteristics of one sex. But happy to be put right. In addition, if this is a physical condition, then how would self ID come in to play?

[Zambernardi1875]

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It's about mens attitude to women, especially "white van men" and the like. We've all seen and heard them.

They're the ones who go on to perpetrate violence towards women. If any of them obtain access to womens spaces as a result of this bill and commit crime it's a man doing it. It's nothing to do with transgender individuals.
Furthermore, the liklihood of it happening is infinitesimal according to stats from Ireland, Norway, Denmark and Switzerland where this legislation already exists.
Or are we saying that our men have worse attitudes towards females than those in other countries and can't be trusted?
Well, that's the main problem then, isn't it!

White van men are violent towards women 😂 what absolute tosh.

[Ozyhibby]

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Kirsty Blackman has said that where there is a requirement for 50/50 male/female split on a board that it's fine if the female portion is made up of trans women.

Give us a shout the first time it happens.


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[CropleyWasGod]

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Is it a gender issue? Isn't part of this mess the conflation of gender and sex? My (admittedly limited) understanding of intersex people was that they had dominant characteristics of one sex. But happy to be put right. In addition, if this is a physical condition, then how would self ID come in to play?

She was talking about non-binary in the clip I saw, not intersex. AIUI, the latter is a self-identified state, the latter physical.

So someone can be intersex physically, but identify as any gender, or even fluid.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Give us a shout the first time it happens.


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Are you happy with the fact it can happen. You've already dismissed disabled females wish to have genetically female only care

[archie]

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Give us a shout the first time it happens.


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How would we know?

[Stairway 2 7]

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How would we know?

Of course we can't there will be no statistics on anything, the same as in Ireland as its a female. If a trans women rapes a female it will be a female on female crime for example.

[James310]

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Give us a shout the first time it happens.


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The point is we won't know.

[James310]

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Of course we can't there will be no statistics on anything, the same as in Ireland as its a female. If a trans women rapes a female it will be a female on female crime for example.

Will it? As the law stands today I don't think a woman can commit rape. How would it be recorded? (No idea)

[J-C]

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You’ve misunderstood the point completely.

I wasn’t asking posters to ‘out’ females on here ffs, I was simply asking the posters themselves if they are female.

I find it interesting that it’s only guys discussing an issue that in most cases it won’t effect at all.

Maybe I have and so fair enough.👍

I would assume that .net is a predominantly male orientated forum, hence the majority of the posts from men.

[J-C]

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Will it? As the law stands today I don't think a woman can commit rape. How would it be recorded? (No idea)

Can a woman not rape another woman?

[James310]

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Can a woman not rape another woman?

Don't think so.

https://www.blmsolicitors.co.uk/2021...an-rape-a-man/


"I must admit that I am not really sure if this counts as a ‘legal curiosity’ but in the UK a woman cannot rape a man, or another woman, as a matter of law. That is because of the terms in which the Sexual Offences Act 2003 defines the act of rape. Essentially women don’t have the necessary ‘bits’ to commit the offence! Put more pompously, the 2003 Act makes penile penetration the main element of the offence. Legal academics describe this approach as being ‘phallo-centric’, because only biological men can commit the offence, in law, whether their victims be male or female."

I just wonder how the offence would be recorded if the person has a GRC saying they are female.

[James310]

If a 16 year old girl is at school, an all girls school, and changes gender to male does that mean she would have to leave school?

Or could a 16 year old male change gender and join an all girls school?

[archie]

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Give us a shout the first time it happens.


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Given it's a criminal offence to reveal if someone has a GRC I suspect no one will be raising it.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Kirsty Blackman has said that where there is a requirement for 50/50 male/female split on a board that it's fine if the female portion is made up of trans women.

And presumably the same for the male portion, it's equality after all.

[Stairway 2 7]

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And presumably the same for the male portion, it's equality after all.

That's like saying white lives matter too. There is protections introduced because a traditional massive under representation of women. Its only one side that needs protected

[Moulin Yarns]

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That's like saying white lives matter too. There is protections introduced because a traditional massive under representation of women. Its only one side that needs protected

Are you saying that equality only works one way? Does a trans man not need protection? I'll need to read the legislation properly.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Are you saying that equality only works one way? Does a trans man not need protection? I'll need to read the legislation properly.

What are you on about ha. Biological females are the only places needing protected as they are underrepresented. Saying why doesn't equality work two ways, is like the people who complain about black protected spaces in American sports, not going both ways

[Moulin Yarns]

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What are you on about ha. Biological females are the only places needing protected as they are underrepresented. Saying why doesn't equality work two ways, is like the people who complain about black protected spaces in American sports, not going both ways

Check the title of the thread. This is trans rights, and trans men face the same discrimination as trans women.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Check the title of the thread. This is trans rights, and trans men face the same discrimination as trans women.

If you're at the ham fair play you got me if not jeez

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...lation-3964807

I think this is just posturing and Sunak will forget all about this in a couple of days but you never know, he might be daft enough to do it.


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[Stairway 2 7]

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https://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...lation-3964807

I think this is just posturing and Sunak will forget all about this in a couple of days but you never know, he might be daft enough to do it.


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Think it would be bad for independence. Most people are against gra reforms, some deeply so. It won't gain many voters that are already won after supreme Court decision, much more likely to lose people

[James310]

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https://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...lation-3964807

I think this is just posturing and Sunak will forget all about this in a couple of days but you never know, he might be daft enough to do it.


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You keep thinking this will disappear in a few days, it won't. This will have long term implications and will be high profile for some time yet.

Why would Sunak be daft to look at the Bill and consider it's implications for women's and girl's safety across the UK, that's his job isn't it? If the legislation is in conflict to existing legislation he can't just ignore it, the Scottish Parliament should understand the legislation it is passing and if it is legal or not. If it has passed illegal legislation that's the fault of the Scottish Parliament.

Let me guess though you think Sunak challenging it will only boost the case for Independence? I think we have been there before and it never does. Not forgetting of course many parts of the Bill were deeply unpopular with the general public and indeed a majority of SNP voters were against many of the more controversial changes so may actually welcome his challenge on some aspects of it.