The Trans Rights Debate

[superfurryhibby]

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Given the source of that piece, I'd be more interested in a more balanced view. One that, for example, doesn't use "he/him" would be a good start ��

I've followed this story on Twitter this week, and it's really difficult to get that balance. Everything out there seems to be polarised.

What did you think of his threatening behaviour towards women. He’s a big guy behaving aggressively and is as ideologically motivated as the women who oppose his views.

I would urge anyone interested to look at what the article says and watch the footage. If that was directed at another group, it would surely be a “hate crime”? Appalling behaviour.

[Since90+2]

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Regardless of the source those quotes and actions attributed to someone in an office purportedly fighting for equality and equity seems at odds with concept of professionalism if nothing else…

Yip.

[CropleyWasGod]

According to Wings, she has now been suspended by the SNP.

[danhibees1875]

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Given the source of that piece, I'd be more interested in a more balanced view. One that, for example, doesn't use "he/him" would be a good start 🙂

I've followed this story on Twitter this week, and it's really difficult to get that balance. Everything out there seems to be polarised.

It's all very complex, but that's something that puts me off someone's opinions/thoughts from the get go. Deliberately giving someone the wrong pronoun in an attempt to make some sort of point. Adds nothing to the debate and shows the author up as classless.

[superfurryhibby]

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It's all very complex, but that's something that puts me off someone's opinions/thoughts from the get go. Deliberately giving someone the wrong pronoun in an attempt to make some sort of point. Adds nothing to the debate and shows the author up as classless.

I think that is the whole point. He is a man, end of.

What was classless was the guy's intimidation tactics at a protest. Running up to someone, much smaller than yourself, and screaming witch in their face is appalling.

We have to also consider the language used in terms of hate crime, as well as aggression and intimidation. The very argument used by proponents of gender self identification should also apply here. Calling a woman a witch in this context is a very loaded comment in the context of feminist protest and is at the very least indicative of the guys underlying misogyny.

[Stairway 2 7]

Women are getting a raw deal right now

@antibarbie
Fringe venue
@Gildedballoon
made one toilet “cubicles and urinals” and another “gender neutral”, so in effect doubling the male provision. I was faced with an actual man, not a trans identifying one, just an entitled one, coming out of cubicle the “GN” one. As victim of SA these facilities make me feel unsafe, but I’m expected to end my boundaries where male feelings begin.

[Keith_M]

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...

What was classless was the guy's intimidation tactics at a protest. Running up to someone, much smaller than yourself, and screaming witch in their face is appalling.

We have to also consider the language used in terms of hate crime, as well as aggression and intimidation. The very argument used by proponents of gender self identification should also apply here. Calling a woman a witch in this context is a very loaded comment in the context of feminist protest and is at the very least indicative of the guys underlying misogyny.

I've left out the first part of your comment... as it's not for me to say one way or the other... but I totally agree with the rest of it.

If this person wants to reduce the amount of unacceptable and discriminatory behaviour, they might want to start by looking in a mirror.



On a slightly more political note: What were the SNP thinking when they employed this person?

[danhibees1875]

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I think that is the whole point. He is a man, end of.

What was classless was the guy's intimidation tactics at a protest. Running up to someone, much smaller than yourself, and screaming witch in their face is appalling.

We have to also consider the language used in terms of hate crime, as well as aggression and intimidation. The very argument used by proponents of gender self identification should also apply here. Calling a woman a witch in this context is a very loaded comment in the context of feminist protest and is at the very least indicative of the guys underlying misogyny.

Maybe I've mistaken something here, but I think she wishes to referred to as "she" - that's the point. Deliberately going against those wishes is unnecessary and poor behaviour.

I'm not talking about the actual incident.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Women are getting a raw deal right now

@antibarbie
Fringe venue
@Gildedballoon
made one toilet “cubicles and urinals” and another “gender neutral”, so in effect doubling the male provision. I was faced with an actual man, not a trans identifying one, just an entitled one, coming out of cubicle the “GN” one. As victim of SA these facilities make me feel unsafe, but I’m expected to end my boundaries where male feelings begin.

Bit silly from the GB. There are gender-neutral, or all-gender, toilets in the Queen's Hall, Summerhall, Pleasance and Burrell Collection. These are places I've been in recently, so can't say if this is widespread.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Bit silly from the GB. There are gender-neutral, or all-gender, toilets in the Queen's Hall, Summerhall, Pleasance and Burrell Collection. These are places I've been in recently, so can't say if this is widespread.

Do these places also have male and female only toilets. It's OK having neutral toilets but not if it's at the price of female toilets

[CropleyWasGod]

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Do these places also have male and female only toilets. It's OK having neutral toilets but not if it's at the price of female toilets

Most of them have those facilities as permanent, with no separate M/F ones. The only difference is that the Pleasance also has a temporary portaloo, with M/F. Presumably that will get removed after the Festival, leaving the permanent neutral ones for the students etc.

Edit. Actually, the Burrell has 3 separate facilities. Male, female and all-genders.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Most of them have those facilities as permanent, with no separate M/F ones. The only difference is that the Pleasance also has a temporary portaloo, with M/F. Presumably that will get removed after the Festival, leaving the permanent neutral ones for the students etc.

Edit. Actually, the Burrell has 3 separate facilities. Male, female and all-genders.

The Pleasance has male and female too. There is very few neutral toilets in the unis 800+ buildings. All new builds will be going with male female and neutral, which is probably right

[superfurryhibby]

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Maybe I've mistaken something here, but I think she wishes to referred to as "she" - that's the point. Deliberately going against those wishes is unnecessary and poor behaviour.

I'm not talking about the actual incident.

It's a very loaded issue, particularly when you are an activist? Maybe less so when you are Joe or Jo Bloggs.

I wonder, if a white skinned person, started calling themselves black, whilst accusing others of discrimination because they see and point out the obvious (that they are not) is their view the only thing that matters?

Not sure if that's a useful analogy, but it springs to mind.

There's a lot at stake here. Earlier in this thread I posted about Edinburgh Rape Crisis and intrusion of a man (who self identifies as a woman) into that service, which is a protected safe space for women. That "safe space" issue takes precedence over an individuals right to assert their self identification in my view. It's close to my heart and has had a direct impact on someone I know.

I'm all for people being able to undergo gender reassignment surgery, with the appropriate provisos and checks etc. However, I'm intolerant of aggressive misogyny and the undermining of women's rights.

[CropleyWasGod]

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The Pleasance has male and female too. There is very few neutral toilets in the unis 800+ buildings. All new builds will be going with male female and neutral, which is probably right

Can't say I saw any M/F ones. My weak bladder means I have been in a few different ones 😁..at least 3 locations in the Courtyard area. Happy to be corrected about the wider area, though.

Agreed about the new builds.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Can't say I saw any M/F ones. My weak bladder means I have been in a few different ones 😁..at least 3 locations in the Courtyard area. Happy to be corrected about the wider area, though.

Agreed about the new builds.

Sorry speaking about inside. There's alot of work retrofitting toilets to be unisex on campuses. They are really good. Each cubicle has toilet, sink handryer so safety isn't an issue, not that it probably ever was.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Sorry speaking about inside. There's alot of work retrofitting toilets to be unisex on campuses. They are really good. Each cubicle has toilet, sink handryer so safety isn't an issue, not that it probably ever was.

Good to hear.

I'm a big fan of cultural changes being slow and natural, so that society has a chance to adjust. That process often starts with younger people, and what you describe fits in with that.

[He's here!]

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According to Wings, she has now been suspended by the SNP.

https://wingsoverscotland.com/home-of-the-deranged/

Adamson sounds like a bona fide nut job.

[147lothian]

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https://reduxx.info/put-terfs-in-the...ish-lawmakers/

This is all very similar to the trans activists who formed a circle round the Emmeline Pankhurst statue in Manchester this year to prevent women from gathering there, when masked men who would claim to be on the 'right side of history' were screaming fascist **** and ****ing TERF's at the mainly middle aged women. Highlighting the deep misogyny that exists within the trans movement.

It is easy to see why the trans activists have real hatred towards women who stand up for women's sex based rights, it's because this highlights the fact that there are only two sexes men and women and that biological sex is real, so women's spaces needs to be protected so that men can't enter.

It seems like the only thing trans activists campaign for with the tired old manta transwomen are women is for the rights of men who identify as women to enter women's spaces this could be women's sport, women's changing rooms, women's prisons, rape crisis center's or women's toilets. This highlights the conflict between women's sex based rights and trans rights.

[He's here!]

https://www.sportskeeda.com/tennis/n...lpga-tour-card

Judy Murray gets the JK Rowling treatment for expressing a perfectly reasonable view.

[Stairway 2 7]

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https://www.sportskeeda.com/tennis/n...lpga-tour-card

Judy Murray gets the JK Rowling treatment for expressing a perfectly reasonable view.

Ridiculous. Golf is up there with one of the sports that will clearly benefit from someone going through male puberty. A shame on the female that loses a tour card because of this

[Moulin Yarns]

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Ridiculous. Golf is up there with one of the sports that will clearly benefit from someone going through male puberty. A shame on the female that loses a tour card because of this

I'm **** at golf, I'm sure JK would beat me.

[Iain G]

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I'm **** at golf, I'm sure JK would beat me.

Well am sure she plays with magical balls... 😁

[Moulin Yarns]

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Ridiculous. Golf is up there with one of the sports that will clearly benefit from someone going through male puberty. A shame on the female that loses a tour card because of this

Is golf not a game of skill rather than strength?

[hibsbollah]

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Is golf not a game of skill rather than strength?

Quidditch anyone?

[Stairway 2 7]

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Is golf not a game of skill rather than strength?

No. Hence although some have tried like Annika Sorenstamand Michelle wie, to make the cut in a few male tournaments they have never managed. Men drive much further due to obvious strength difference. Male tournaments are open so why don't trans athletes try to compete in that. Probably because they wouldn't be able to make it, so take a place of a female to be professional

[Moulin Yarns]

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No. Hence although some have tried like Annika Sorenstamand Michelle wie, to make the cut in a few male tournaments they have never managed. Men drive much further due to obvious strength difference. Male tournaments are open so why don't trans athletes try to compete in that. Probably because they wouldn't be able to make it, so take a place of a female to be professional

You do realise that Hailey Davidson also failed to get through the third round against women? She wasn't in the top 106!!

Davidson shot a +3 over three rounds at the Stage I qualifier at Mission Hills Country Club in Rancho Mirage, Calif. The cut was -2. 106 female golfers shot -2 or better, each of them at least 5 strokes better than Davidson.

So while people are yelling about trans athletes taking spots away from other women, it was the cisgender women themselves who voted to allow trans athletes in the LPGA.

And it's not all about distance, all the advances in golf balls and clubs have made the game of golf rediculously easy to get distance, just as well skill is involved as well.

[Stairway 2 7]

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You do realise that Hailey Davidson also failed to get through the third round against women? She wasn't in the top 106!!








And it's not all about distance, all the advances in golf balls and clubs have made the game of golf rediculously easy to get distance, just as well skill is involved as well.

She's through to the qualifier tour and will get a tour place is she finishes high enough.
And if you are saying you think males don't have an advantage playing golf, then I believe you are saying something you don't believe is true just to prove a point frankly.

[superfurryhibby]

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Is golf not a game of skill rather than strength?

Makes you wonder why top female golfers don't compete on the far more lucrative men's tour?

I think the answer is that they either aren't good enough or that a man's natural strength gives them a massive advantage.

[LewysGot2]

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Is golf not a game of skill rather than strength?

Aye thats why there’s tees for men and tees for females…you’re thinking of darts

[LewysGot2]

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https://www.sportskeeda.com/tennis/n...lpga-tour-card

Judy Murray gets the JK Rowling treatment for expressing a perfectly reasonable view.

Along with ageism and sexism…after all she’s “only Andy’s old mum” what right has she to comment on this…