Is he staying?

[Victor]

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I seem to be forever swimming against the tide on here just now despite the fact I wouldn't be particularly bothered if he goes but I can't help but play Devils advocate.

We have definitely improved performance wise since the January window and could easily have several more points than we do.

The fact is though that due to a combination of missed chances, poor defending and horrific refereeing we have ended up where we are.

Obviously two of the three reasons outlined above are self inflicted and the manager must take a deal of responsibility for. He neglected to bring in a no nonsense central defender and that has definitely cost us points.

Having said that we should have beaten Aberdeen, Hertz, St Johnstone, Ross County and Motherwell with the first four of these all containing ludicrous decisions which went against us. We also deserved at least a point at home to Celtic, a game which also included some "interesting" decisions.

On the flipside we were beyond rotten against St Mirren and have only ourselves to blame for failings both in attack and defence.

I suppose my point is had we reached the split with the amount of points I think we deserved we would probably be sitting in 5th and the manager's future wouldn't even be being discussed.

Taking all this into account I really don't think it's so unreasonable that the board feel inclined to give him time particularly when he hasn't even had a summer window yet.

I might be made to look stupid when they sack him this afternoon or something but regardless I am pretty comfortable that everything I have written above is both reasonable and very possible.

Agree with this. The late goals we lost against St. Johnstone and Motherwell had nothing to do with the manager, but from players being unable to do basics like defend and close down. The manager also cannot be blamed for Youan’s inability to pass to a colleague, for a tap-in. A lot of our problems stem from players making poor decisions and switching off at crucial times. The biggest culprits being players who were at the Club before the manager came.

[jeffers]

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Agree with this. The late goals we lost against St. Johnstone and Motherwell had nothing to do with the manager, but from players being unable to do basics like defend and close down. The manager also cannot be blamed for Youan’s inability to pass to a colleague, for a tap-in. A lot of our problems stem from players making poor decisions and switching off at crucial times. The biggest culprits being players who were at the Club before the manager came.

You could flip that round and say the goals we score are nothing do with the manager then too.

The same things have been happening all season. We’ve lost poor goals all season, often at the end of the game. He’s not addressed that. Yet he wants to keep Fish, has offered an extension to Rocky’s contract and got Obita to sign a new deal. I can’t believe all our failings are down to the right back and signing a new one would have made a huge difference.

[easty]

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Agree with this. The late goals we lost against St. Johnstone and Motherwell had nothing to do with the manager, but from players being unable to do basics like defend and close down. The manager also cannot be blamed for Youan’s inability to pass to a colleague, for a tap-in. A lot of our problems stem from players making poor decisions and switching off at crucial times. The biggest culprits being players who were at the Club before the manager came.

Game management isn’t the responsibility of the manager? At all?

If you can’t blame the manager for Youan not passing, do you also give the manager no credit when Youan pulls us out the **** at Tynecastle?

[SickBoy32]

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You could flip that round and say the goals we score are nothing do with the manager then too.

The same things have been happening all season. We’ve lost poor goals all season, often at the end of the game. He’s not addressed that. Yet he wants to keep Fish, has offered an extension to Rocky’s contract and got Obita to sign a new deal. I can’t believe all our failings are down to the right back and signing a new one would have made a huge difference.

I think there is some merit in what Flash / Victor have said - but as you say, if he’s wanting to keep Fish and Bushiri, then what hope is there for improvement defensively? And why haven’t we improved in this regard under his tenure to date?

Wanting to extend Bushiri’s contract in particular is just nuts - is this definitely true ?

[Smartie]

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I seem to be forever swimming against the tide on here just now despite the fact I wouldn't be particularly bothered if he goes but I can't help but play Devils advocate.

We have definitely improved performance wise since the January window and could easily have several more points than we do.

The fact is though that due to a combination of missed chances, poor defending and horrific refereeing we have ended up where we are.

Obviously two of the three reasons outlined above are self inflicted and the manager must take a deal of responsibility for. He neglected to bring in a no nonsense central defender and that has definitely cost us points.

Having said that we should have beaten Aberdeen, Hertz, St Johnstone, Ross County and Motherwell with the first four of these all containing ludicrous decisions which went against us. We also deserved at least a point at home to Celtic, a game which also included some "interesting" decisions.

On the flipside we were beyond rotten against St Mirren and have only ourselves to blame for failings both in attack and defence.

I suppose my point is had we reached the split with the amount of points I think we deserved we would probably be sitting in 5th and the manager's future wouldn't even be being discussed.

Taking all this into account I really don't think it's so unreasonable that the board feel inclined to give him time particularly when he hasn't even had a summer window yet.

I might be made to look stupid when they sack him this afternoon or something but regardless I am pretty comfortable that everything I have written above is both reasonable and very possible.

A very fair and balanced post tbf.

Folk like to see things black and white and with Monty it is most certainly not black and white - plenty in the plus and minus columns and your opinion on whether he should stay or go will sometimes simply come down to whether you're a glass half empty or glass half full sort of guy.

There are objective facts and then the touchy feely subjective stuff. The first halves of games where we've been slow, ponderous and frustrating haven't made the fans happy. The very fact that the fans aren't happy with what they're seeing will count too, it sort of did for big Mixu, even when his results were acceptable.

It's odd - as you say, other than for some outrageous stuff going against him that really shouldn't, he'd be fairly comfortably meeting minimum expectations and we do occasionally click and play some decent stuff.

There have just been a few too many red flags for me that make it hard to have confidence in him and see him as being a successful Hibs manager - the over perseverance with 442 and the players who were playing it and then, do I really think he's ever going to be able to read a game and make subs that either close games out or change them for the better or is that sort of stuff always going to be more likely to come from the opposition dug out? Whilst I acknowledge mitigating factors and aspects of improvement since January, it's nearly impossible to have full confidence in him.

[jeffers]

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I think there is some merit in what Flash / Victor have said - but as you say, if he’s wanting to keep Fish and Bushiri, then what hope is there for improvement defensively? And why haven’t we improved in this regard under his tenure to date?

Wanting to extend Bushiri’s contract in particular is just nuts - is this definitely true ?

So I’ve been told. In Rocky’s case he is viewed by the club as a saleable asset, I think he’s only got a year left on his deal, and Monty clearly rates him so I fully understand the decision. Don’t agree with it though.

[Victor]

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Game management isn’t the responsibility of the manager? At all?

If you can’t blame the manager for Youan not passing, do you also give the manager no credit when Youan pulls us out the **** at Tynecastle?

Of course it is, but I am quite sure he doesn’t tell players to switch off and not do basic things. Every player knows what they should be doing and has the ability to do it, if they don’t do what they are told to do, whose fault is that? If I told you to take a cow to market and sell it for cash and you trade it for magic beans, who is to blame? By your reckoning it’s my fault for trusting you. But what if you were my only option?

[flash]

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A very fair and balanced post tbf.

Folk like to see things black and white and with Monty it is most certainly not black and white - plenty in the plus and minus columns and your opinion on whether he should stay or go will sometimes simply come down to whether you're a glass half empty or glass half full sort of guy.

There are objective facts and then the touchy feely subjective stuff. The first halves of games where we've been slow, ponderous and frustrating haven't made the fans happy. The very fact that the fans aren't happy with what they're seeing will count too, it sort of did for big Mixu, even when his results were acceptable.

It's odd - as you say, other than for some outrageous stuff going against him that really shouldn't, he'd be fairly comfortably meeting minimum expectations and we do occasionally click and play some decent stuff.

There have just been a few too many red flags for me that make it hard to have confidence in him and see him as being a successful Hibs manager - the over perseverance with 442 and the players who were playing it and then, do I really think he's ever going to be able to read a game and make subs that either close games out or change them for the better or is that sort of stuff always going to be more likely to come from the opposition dug out? Whilst I acknowledge mitigating factors and aspects of improvement since January, it's nearly impossible to have full confidence in him.

Cheers. All I was attempting to show was that there are indeed shades of grey between the black and the white.

[SickBoy32]

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So I’ve been told. In Rocky’s case he is viewed by the club as a saleable asset

Wow. If that’s what they think - then just sell him now for **** sake 😂

[McGruber]

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I think there is some merit in what Flash / Victor have said - but as you say, if he’s wanting to keep Fish and Bushiri, then what hope is there for improvement defensively? And why haven’t we improved in this regard under his tenure to date?

Wanting to extend Bushiri’s contract in particular is just nuts - is this definitely true ?

I would be happy for Rocky to get an extension. I would sign 2 new starting centre backs don't get me wrong. Rocky still has improvement in him, he isn't the finished article but has obvious attributes and has been improving. He was getting universal praise on here after coming back from AFCON initially. Has been the better of the 2 beside Fish inspite of him playing on the left when they are both right sided. Priority signings 2 centre backs but Rocky back up on the right side - don't think that's nuts. Keeps budget for elsewhere

[JimBHibees]

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The overall stats you include may not back up a claim that results improved, but most folk citing improvement were talking about performances rather than results and hoping that if the performances became consistently better the results would follow.

The 0-3 St Mirren game was the one which really sparked a pile-on about Monty's future and rightly so. It was a disgraceful display and result. However, what won me round (temporarily) was the way we responded to that. We deserved more than we took from the games against Celtic, Aberdeen and Hearts, while we did a professional job in getting the home wins against Ross County and Dundee and we really should have held on to win at County away. However, it's the way we so easily buckled in the key game against St Johnstone that has set the alarm bells ringing for me again. The home win over Livi garnered a lot of positive comments but in hindsight it masked a lot of flaws and as soon as we came up against a more savvy side managed by a savvy manager (Levein) we couldn't cope.

I'm certainly concerned by the prospect of persevering with Monty now and it's not hard to see us in a real mess come September should we do so. The club's silence on any sort of plan for the future isn't helping instil confidence.

Fair post i think it was the improvement in performance that gave some hope particularly the derby and Celtic games the same time we definitely weren’t getting a fair crack of the whip from refs. The Ross county and St Johnstone games have knocked that hope back a bit with the four goals scored against goals you would be disappointed for an under 12 team to lose. Personal opinion there is enough to be looking at giving him preseason and ability to revamp squad however last two games clearly haven’t helped him. Would like club to come out with clear statement one way or another but doubt that will happen.

[JimBHibees]

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I would be happy for Rocky to get an extension. I would sign 2 new starting centre backs don't get me wrong. Rocky still has improvement in him, he isn't the finished article but has obvious attributes and has been improving. He was getting universal praise on here after coming back from AFCON initially. Has been the better of the 2 beside Fish inspite of him playing on the left when they are both right sided. Priority signings 2 centre backs but Rocky back up on the right side - don't think that's nuts. Keeps budget for elsewhere

Wouldn’t disagree with that he is raw but has potential and clear attributes some of our others defenders don’t have.

[JimBHibees]

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I seem to be forever swimming against the tide on here just now despite the fact I wouldn't be particularly bothered if he goes but I can't help but play Devils advocate.

We have definitely improved performance wise since the January window and could easily have several more points than we do.

The fact is though that due to a combination of missed chances, poor defending and horrific refereeing we have ended up where we are.

Obviously two of the three reasons outlined above are self inflicted and the manager must take a deal of responsibility for. He neglected to bring in a no nonsense central defender and that has definitely cost us points.

Having said that we should have beaten Aberdeen, Hertz, St Johnstone, Ross County and Motherwell with the first four of these all containing ludicrous decisions which went against us. We also deserved at least a point at home to Celtic, a game which also included some "interesting" decisions.

On the flipside we were beyond rotten against St Mirren and have only ourselves to blame for failings both in attack and defence.

I suppose my point is had we reached the split with the amount of points I think we deserved we would probably be sitting in 5th and the manager's future wouldn't even be being discussed.

Taking all this into account I really don't think it's so unreasonable that the board feel inclined to give him time particularly when he hasn't even had a summer window yet.

I might be made to look stupid when they sack him this afternoon or something but regardless I am pretty comfortable that everything I have written above is both reasonable and very possible.

Good post exactly where i am. As you say fair decisions we are probably 5th. As you also say the repeat defensive errors and on occasion horrific game management and subs which weaken the team are on him as well as the players it isn’t in any way a clear decision. I am for keeping however would also have to say can understand and agree with some of the points against him also.

[Alex Trager]

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Agree with this. The late goals we lost against St. Johnstone and Motherwell had nothing to do with the manager, but from players being unable to do basics like defend and close down. The manager also cannot be blamed for Youan’s inability to pass to a colleague, for a tap-in. A lot of our problems stem from players making poor decisions and switching off at crucial times. The biggest culprits being players who were at the Club before the manager came.

The manager had a window to bring in better players.

He thought Triantis was the better CH.

That is clearly, bollocks.

[easty]

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Of course it is, but I am quite sure he doesn’t tell players to switch off and not do basic things. Every player knows what they should be doing and has the ability to do it, if they don’t do what they are told to do, whose fault is that? If I told you to take a cow to market and sell it for cash and you trade it for magic beans, who is to blame? By your reckoning it’s my fault for trusting you. But what if you were my only option?

If you asked me to take a cow to market and I came back with beans once then fair enough you are not responsible. If it’s the 33rd time you’ve asked me and I’ve come back with beans more often than not. It’s your fault as much as mines. If it seems like I’m your only option it’s because you’re not looking hard enough to change things.

Say half way through my 33 journeys to market you were given the opportunity to employ a delivery driver, but instead you just bought a new cattle fence to replace the perfectly adequate fence that you already have. Again, that’s your fault.

[easty]

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Good post exactly where i am. As you say fair decisions we are probably 5th. As you also say the repeat defensive errors and on occasion horrific game management and subs which weaken the team are on him as well as the players it isn’t in any way a clear decision. I am for keeping however would also have to say can understand and agree with some of the points against him also.

Does that account for the decisions all teams feel went against them, or just the ones that don’t suit us?

[Murphys Touch]

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A very fair and balanced post tbf.

Folk like to see things black and white and with Monty it is most certainly not black and white - plenty in the plus and minus columns and your opinion on whether he should stay or go will sometimes simply come down to whether you're a glass half empty or glass half full sort of guy.

There are objective facts and then the touchy feely subjective stuff. The first halves of games where we've been slow, ponderous and frustrating haven't made the fans happy. The very fact that the fans aren't happy with what they're seeing will count too, it sort of did for big Mixu, even when his results were acceptable.

It's odd - as you say, other than for some outrageous stuff going against him that really shouldn't, he'd be fairly comfortably meeting minimum expectations and we do occasionally click and play some decent stuff.

There have just been a few too many red flags for me that make it hard to have confidence in him and see him as being a successful Hibs manager - the over perseverance with 442 and the players who were playing it and then, do I really think he's ever going to be able to read a game and make subs that either close games out or change them for the better or is that sort of stuff always going to be more likely to come from the opposition dug out? Whilst I acknowledge mitigating factors and aspects of improvement since January, it's nearly impossible to have full confidence in him.

I agree with all this!

Too many red flags for me and ultimately he’s not cut up to meet our expectations.

I get Flash’s points, we could easily be in 4/5th given the late goals or decisions. But we cannot keep going into the 90th minute against crap with either 1 goal of a lead or drawing. That is the managers fault

[Alex Trager]

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Wouldn’t disagree with that he is raw but has potential and clear attributes some of our others defenders don’t have.

Rocky is pretty *****.

We could sell and get a ‘better’ CH as cover from one of the smaller clubs in the league for the same cash.

[flash]

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Does that account for the decisions all teams feel went against them, or just the ones that don’t suit us?

Are you seriously suggesting we haven't had a disproportionate amount of poor decisions?

[easty]

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Are you seriously suggesting we haven't had a disproportionate amount of poor decisions?

No, nowhere have I said that.

[Stubbsy90+2]

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Does that account for the decisions all teams feel went against them, or just the ones that don’t suit us?

There was a post the other day outlining that if we hadn’t lost any goals in stoppage time we’d be level with Kilmarnock. There was a lot of back patting, good response type replies and it appeared justification to some that we were just unlucky and could really be challenging for fourth.

What it failed to consider is that once you do the same for Kilmarnock they end up away out in front of us again.

[superfurryhibby]

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Are you seriously suggesting we haven't had a disproportionate amount of poor decisions?

Why don't you provide some evidence for that? I'll not hold my breath whilst you look for the "facts" though

I could just as easily say "are you seriously suggesting that Hibs are on the receiving end more than other clubs" ?

Whilst your take panders to conspiracists, apologists and the overly lacking perspective amongst our support, most of us realise that it's a blight on our game that affects all teams equally (Old Firm aside, obvs).

[flash]

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Why don't you provide some evidence for that? I'll not hold my breath whilst you look for the "facts" though

I could just as easily say "are you seriously suggesting that Hibs are on the receiving end more than other clubs" ?

Whilst your take panders to conspiracists, apologists and the overly lacking perspective amongst our support, most of us realise that it's a blight on our game that affects all teams equally (Old Firm aside, obvs).

We have finally jumped the shark where we now have people who are so desperate to get rid of the manager they are prepared to outright lie about what has happened to us this season with decisions.

[superfurryhibby]

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We have finally jumped the shark where we now have people who are so desperate to get rid of the manager they are prepared to outright lie about what has happened to us this season with decisions.

You seem unhealthily obsessed with pointing out the flaws in others views. Now your calling people liars for pointing out the massive flaw in your own logic, good work.

[flash]

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You seem unhealthily obsessed with pointing out the flaws in others views. Now your calling people liars for pointing out the massive flaw in your own logic, good work.

Have we or have we not had comfortably more dodgy decisions against us than in our favour this season?

[Victor]

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The manager had a window to bring in better players.

He thought Triantis was the better CH.

That is clearly, bollocks.

The worst window for bringing in established players. I think the consensus was that Triantis was backup after we lost out on another player. Triantis has shown he can be effective as a DM. Just because I don’t agree with you doesn’t make my opinion less valid. You obviously want NM to go, I am not so certain. I think we should agree to disagree.

[easty]

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Have we or have we not had comfortably more dodgy decisions against us than in our favour this season?

I dunno. I only know about our ones, but do hear a lot of complaints from most sets of fans.

This came out in Feb, and we’re not on it - https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/68306579.amp

This was from the first round of fixtures - https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/67517896.amp

I get that we legitimately feel hard done by, but disproportionately so? I don’t know. Genuinely I don’t know.

[superfurryhibby]

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Have we or have we not had comfortably more dodgy decisions against us than in our favour this season?

No more or less than any other side I would guess and my guess is as good as your guess.

[flash]

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I dunno. I only know about our ones, but do hear a lot of complaints from most sets of fans.

This came out in Feb, and we’re not on it - https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/68306579.amp

This was from the first round of fixtures - https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/67517896.amp

I get that we legitimately feel hard done by, but disproportionately so? I don’t know. Genuinely I don’t know.

Surely if we have been shafted far more often than we have benefitted then others have benefitted from the same decisions?

[flash]

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No more or less than any other side I would guess and my guess is as good as your guess.

No it isn't. I have seen every Hibs game this season. We have been shafted.