Leadership on the park

[Aldo]

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Surely if we came calling he’d have a re-think

You would think so wouldn’t you?

[SickBoy32]

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Newell scored against Luzern?

Newell not winning a trophy here doesn't make him a crap player. Remembered he's played 5 seasons in the top league as well. Gray played less than 1/3rd of his games at Hibs in the top flight.

Right enough. He was excellent against Luzern at ER.

He’ll always have that as a career highlight to tell his grandkids about 👍

A previous poster touched on it last night, Newell will take up too much of the budget for what he offers us.

We deserve better.

[MWHIBBIES]

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Gray wasn't captain in his first season at the club.

Do you need an armband to use inspirational superpowers?

Let's be honest here. Gray played for a better run, better organised Hibs, who had a brilliant defence, midfield and then goalie when rocky arrived.

The only time Newell had an organised decent side around him we finished 3rd.

Newell could do better. But he's one of our best players and capable of playing in a side competing for 3rd

[MWHIBBIES]

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Right enough. He was excellent against Luzern at ER.

He’ll always have that as a career highlight to tell his grandkids about 👍

A previous poster touched on it last night, Newell will take up too much of the budget for what he offers us.

We deserve better.

Id love us to sign better for his wages. We won't. But id love it.

[Aldo]

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Newell scored against Luzern?

Newell not winning a trophy here doesn't make him a crap player. Remembered he's played 5 seasons in the top league as well. Gray played less than 1/3rd of his games at Hibs in the top flight.

It doesn’t but by playing crap week in week out means he’s been playing crap.

I posted about that we all saw what he could do against Luzern but it’s not been replicated throughout the season. Surely you can see that?? That is the minimum standard required from me, not just from him but from everyone.

Drive, desire and a willingness to win. That is lacking.

[BILLYHIBS]

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Vente let us down by being crap all season.

Newell has been good this season. Stats show that quite clearly.

He has 4 goals 9 assists this season. An excellent contribution from midfield.

Was back to being The Lesser Spotted Joe Newell last week versus St Johnstone the week before against the Hun and this week against Motherwell when we needed him most

10 goals in 185 appearances should be more from a player of his ability his free kicks corners and throw ins are mostly unremarkable must be our Captain by default as there is obviously no one else

The whole club needs a massive shake up

[Allant1981]

I swear Joe newell posts on here, every single discussion ends up with a poster fawning over him.

[JohnM1875]

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I swear Joe newell posts on here, every single discussion ends up with a poster fawning over him.

That's the thing. Met Joe before and he's a great lad, loves it up here and playing for the club. But I'm sure even he'd admit he hasn't been consistent/good enough this season.

[The Modfather]

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Vente let us down by being crap all season.

Newell has been good this season. Stats show that quite clearly.

He has 4 goals 9 assists this season. An excellent contribution from midfield.

Further to my other reply, it’s difficult to find stats on set pieces. The link below shows that we scored 6 goals from set pieces. You would imagine at least 5 or 6 of those were Newell given he takes all our set pieces.

How does his open play contribution compare to Levitt? 4 goals and 3 assists v 2 goals and 2 assists. Do the set pieces he takes mask the fact that his contribution isn’t dismal to guys like Levitt? Or Josh Campbell who is on 3 goals and no assists. Both of who have played less minutes than Newell.

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/253/Tournaments/20/Seasons/8636/Stages/19821/TeamStatistics/Scotland-Premiership-2021-2022

[MWHIBBIES]

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Vente in a decent team under a decent manager and given the service will score goals. Not sitting on the half way line marking a midfield player.

His link up play and through ball for MM goal v County was brilliant. He needs to play to his strengths. Why pay all that money for a player and do play him correctly.

As for Newell, you will never concede that he’s been very a mediocre (as have others) over the season. I can see what’s in front of me and use the Luzcern game is the standard I expect from him every game or at least try to show that’s the case. You cannot tell me you are happy with his performances because an algorithm tells you he passes a ball square or back a dozen times a game.

Just how I see it.

Ah right, so it's the teams fault ventes been ****. Mate, look at the goal Shankland scored at Easter road. That's a striker. Doesn't need it on a plate.

Vente has been mince. ALF is considerably better at 47 years old. I'll just blame the team for Newell being crap then because he finished 3rd with a good team around him.
Na, he's expected to drag us up single handedly while excuse after excuse gets rolled out for his underperforming teammates.

"Oh, Boyles injuries must be catching up with him"
"Oh Vente hasn't had the service"
"Marcondes is brilliant, his team mates just aren't on his level"

Those guys have actually let us down. Newell has worked like ****.
I'm happy with his performances because they've been good. He passes it forward plenty. Such lazy analysis that is mate, honestly.

[MWHIBBIES]

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Further to my other reply, it’s difficult to find stats on set pieces. The link below shows that we scored 6 goals from set pieces. You would imagine at least 5 or 6 of those were Newell given he takes all our set pieces.

How does his open play contribution compare to Levitt? 4 goals and 3 assists v 2 goals and 2 assists. Do the set pieces he takes mask the fact that his contribution isn’t dismal to guys like Levitt? Or Josh Campbell who is on 3 goals and no assists. Both of who have played less minutes than Newell.

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/253/Tournaments/20/Seasons/8636/Stages/19821/TeamStatistics/Scotland-Premiership-2021-2022

You are comparing quite different players.

Levitt has been absolutely gash this season. Terrible player.

Campbell plays much higher up the park, and his all round game is nowhere near newells.

Joe isn't there to score 10 goals a season. Same as Mcgeouch wasn't. Or Fyvie. He is a deeper midfielder. 13 goal contributions, open play or not, is exceptional for his position. That's the same as Boyle.

[Aldo]

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Ah right, so it's the teams fault ventes been ****. Mate, look at the goal Shankland scored at Easter road. That's a striker. Doesn't need it on a plate.

Vente has been mince. ALF is considerably better at 47 years old. I'll just blame the team for Newell being crap then because he finished 3rd with a good team around him.
Na, he's expected to drag us up single handedly while excuse after excuse gets rolled out for his underperforming teammates.

"Oh, Boyles injuries must be catching up with him"
"Oh Vente hasn't had the service"
"Marcondes is brilliant, his team mates just aren't on his level"

Those guys have actually let us down. Newell has worked like ****.
I'm happy with his performances because they've been good. He passes it forward plenty. Such lazy analysis that is mate, honestly.

Shankland goal, whilst it was a cracking strike, was avoidable. Rocky should have just clattered right through him giving away a foul and a booking.

If you read my post from last night I agreed that too many players have been poor but you won’t concede that Newell has been poor too. Best of a bad bunch can still mean he’s been crap too can it not? He’s definitely not single handedly dragged us anywhere but bottom 6 as have the others.

Good players in crap teams tend to stand out and Newell definitely hasn’t stood out for most of the season as you’ve said.

[The Modfather]

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You are comparing quite different players.

Levitt has been absolutely gash this season. Terrible player.

Campbell plays much higher up the park, and his all round game is nowhere near newells.

Joe isn't there to score 10 goals a season. Same as Mcgeouch wasn't. Or Fyvie. He is a deeper midfielder. 13 goal contributions, open play or not, is exceptional for his position. That's the same as Boyle.

Campbell does play further up the park, which is fair. I think Newell & Levitt are a fair comparison though in terms of position. 2 goals and 2 assists for Levitt in 1,361 minutes v 4 goals and 3 assists from 2,757 minutes from Newell. I’m not sure that the stats you’re highlighting to show Newell’s contribution are anything special, and arguably part of the problem, when you dig into them a little. Levitt’s stats might similarly be padded out if he was able to take all of our set pieces.

[Itsnoteasy]

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That's the thing. Met Joe before and he's a great lad, loves it up here and playing for the club. But I'm sure even he'd admit he hasn't been consistent/good enough this season.

I would rather he was a prick & a winner.

[MWHIBBIES]

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Campbell does play further up the park, which is fair. I think Newell & Levitt are a fair comparison though in terms of position. 2 goals and 2 assists for Levitt in 1,361 minutes v 4 goals and 3 assists from 2,757 minutes from Newell. I’m not sure that the stats you’re highlighting to show Newell’s contribution are anything special, and arguably part of the problem, when you dig into them a little. Levitt’s stats might similarly be padded out if he was able to take all of our set pieces.

"Padded out"

I wish Levitt had padded out his stats as well as Joe. I'm all for it.

Very poor player for us this season. One labeled a "baller" by many on here. Nowhere near Newells level.

[MWHIBBIES]

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Shankland goal, whilst it was a cracking strike, was avoidable. Rocky should have just clattered right through him giving away a foul and a booking.

If you read my post from last night I agreed that too many players have been poor but you won’t concede that Newell has been poor too. Best of a bad bunch can still mean he’s been crap too can it not? He’s definitely not single handedly dragged us anywhere but bottom 6 as have the others.

Good players in crap teams tend to stand out and Newell definitely hasn’t stood out for most of the season as you’ve said.

He hasn't been poor. He's been good/decent and our best player apart from Maolida imo. Id say if he was crap. I don't hesitate if a player is actually crap. Newell isn't.

[JimBHibees]

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Richard Hughes is the new Technical Director at Liverpool and takes up the role at the end of the 23/24 season

What an opportunity missed not coming to Hibs

[Aldo]

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He hasn't been poor. He's been good/decent and our best player apart from Maolida imo. Id say if he was crap. I don't hesitate if a player is actually crap. Newell isn't.

He has been poor and again I use the Lucern game as the minimum standard.

So he’s not been our best player. A guy who was signed in Jan has and that there tells the story.

I know Newell has it in him to be a very good player that’s why I’m disappointed he’s not shown enough in games to drive the team forward.

He’s a bottom 6 player this season because of poor performances across the board.

[The Modfather]

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"Padded out"

I wish Levitt had padded out his stats as well as Joe. I'm all for it.

Very poor player for us this season. One labeled a "baller" by many on here. Nowhere near Newells level.

Levitt has been really poor and I don’t see how he can ever form part of any good midfield. However, It’s telling that their open play stats are comparable though and doesn’t reflect well on Newell as our captain and ever present in midfield IMO.

[MWHIBBIES]

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He has been poor and again I use the Lucern game as the minimum standard.

So he’s not been our best player. A guy who was signed in Jan has and that there tells the story.

I know Newell has it in him to be a very good player that’s why I’m disappointed he’s not shown enough in games to drive the team forward.

He’s a bottom 6 player this season because of poor performances across the board.

Ah right. So you've chosen one match in which he has excellent,and anything else is crap? Genius.

Eh, it tells no story really. Maolida is a brilliant talent. Miles more talented than anyone else in our squad. Of course he's been our best player.

Newell expected to play 1 Vs 11. Vente needs service.

And I get called biased

[MWHIBBIES]

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Levitt has been really poor and I don’t see how he can ever form part of any good midfield. However, It’s telling that their open play stats are comparable though and doesn’t reflect well on Newell as our captain and ever present in midfield IMO.

Those stats might be comparable. Newell bodies him in every other one. If you judge central midfielders only by goals and assists, you are dumb. Newell is miles better

[The Modfather]

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Those stats might be comparable. Newell bodies him in every other one. If you judge central midfielders only by goals and assists, you are dumb. Newell is miles better

You were the one who brought Newell’s goals and assists stats into this thread, I’ve just dug into them a little.

Newell is a lot better than Levitt, however that bar is so low it doesn’t prove anything, certainly not in terms of whether Newell is part of a wider problem or part of the answer to the wider problem.

[NC1875]

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Newell scored against Luzern?

Newell not winning a trophy here doesn't make him a crap player. Remembered he's played 5 seasons in the top league as well. Gray played less than 1/3rd of his games at Hibs in the top flight.

You’re arguing that someone who is bang average and fails to turn up regularly despite being our captain should be kept because he’s our best midfielder .

That’s just a sorry indication of how bad the rest are, NMW aside. Not an indication of how good Joe Newell is.

Another one in his comfort zone. We need far better.

[MWHIBBIES]

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You’re arguing that someone who is bang average and fails to turn up regularly despite being our captain should be kept because he’s our best midfielder .

That’s just a sorry indication of how bad the rest are, NMW aside. Not an indication of how good Joe Newell is.

Another one in his comfort zone. We need far better.

Good, great idea. Let's go sign better. I'm all for it.

[Aldo]

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Ah right. So you've chosen one match in which he has excellent,and anything else is crap? Genius.

Eh, it tells no story really. Maolida is a brilliant talent. Miles more talented than anyone else in our squad. Of course he's been our best player.

Newell expected to play 1 Vs 11. Vente needs service.

And I get called biased

No need for the sarcasm.

You put Newell on a pedestal and above every player because you think he’s been good this season. So by what you have written above every week it’s been Newell v the opposition??

I have used this game to show what he’s actually capable of. A yard stick, a standard which is not unacceptable to hold someone by? No but surely you can see a difference between him in that game and other games throughout the season. Are you not frustrated by this. I know I am because I know what he’s actually capable of.

Maybe not biased but you won’t concede Newell has been poor, by his standards for a considerable part of the season. He might be our best player but doesn’t mean to say he’s been good/decent most weeks.

[MWHIBBIES]

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No need for the sarcasm.

You put Newell on a pedestal and above every player because you think he’s been good this season. So by what you have written above every week it’s been Newell v the opposition??

I have used this game to show what he’s actually capable of. A yard stick, a standard which is not unacceptable to hold someone by? No but surely you can see a difference between him in that game and other games throughout the season. Are you not frustrated by this. I know I am because I know what he’s actually capable of.

Maybe not biased but you won’t concede Newell has been poor, by his standards for a considerable part of the season. He might be our best player but doesn’t mean to say he’s been good/decent most weeks.

I wont concede it because it isn't true IMO. I don't have to concede bugger all. Same as you don't.

[heid the baw]

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Do you need an armband to use inspirational superpowers

Leadership on the park does not necessarily come from an armband. Tommy McIntyre, great captain, long serving and trusted by Alex Miller.
When Miller adds Murdo McLeod and John Burridge to the squad, he adds different kinds of leadership and wins our first trophy in nearly 20 years
We often go on about changing the mentality of the club and this can happen if recruitment focussed on prioritising players who influence others.

[GreenCastle]

In recent times - Hibs win trophies..

Murdo McLeod
Rob Jones
David Gray

These are leaders and captains you want.

Even David Gray winning goal and Rob Jones against Killie first goal in cup final - leading by example.

We are too soft as a club and squad - one of the 1st things to sort for any new manager.

[Aldo]

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I wont concede it because it isn't true IMO. I don't have to concede bugger all. Same as you don't.

That’s fine but no need to use sarcasm (previous posts) or use an annoyed tone at me for expressing an opinion. I have been respectful of you.

That’s up to you however I’d like to think I’ve put forward a balanced opinion of a very talented player who’s not performed at his best this season. I think he’s been poor by his standards.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

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In recent times - Hibs win trophies..

Mirror McLeod
Rob Jones
David Gray

These are leaders and captains you want.

Even David Gray winning goal and Rob Jones against Killie first goal in cup final - leading by example.

We are too soft as a club and squad - one of the 1st things to sort for any new manager.

On reflection, per the above, McLeod was a good addition.