Hsl

[Slim Shady]

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Jim Adie (I think) from HSL on Sky tonight and his comments for me were embarrassing.

Says it’s heartbreaking that HSL shares will be diluted. Questions how we have reached a position where we need fresh external investment. Thinks the accounts are very worrying.

Making a fool of himself IMO. Ignores that we’ve made a loss because we’ve invested in Hospitality, Floodlights, Screens etc.

Not helpful and only stirs division.

I agree. On the back of listening to that slaver I’ll be cancelling my payments tomorrow.

Done himself or HSL no favours and come across as bitter.

Bar the performance of team at the minute and being 22 points behind them, the club is in a decent place off the pitch.

[matty_f]

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I agree. On the back of listening to that slaver I’ll be cancelling my payments tomorrow.

Done himself or HSL no favours and come across as bitter.

Bar the performance of team at the minute and being 22 points behind them, the club is in a decent place off the pitch.

Just watched it and I’m really surprised at the tone of the interview. This isn’t a bail out with the investment, we’ve not gone searching investment to dig us out of a hole which is what’s implied here, and the chat around the accounts really didn’t show a good understanding of the situation.

Lots of scaremongering and emotive language, really poor.

[May21/05/16]

That's not a very good interview its sad as Jim and the rest of the team have been good at getting funds into the club especially during covid but I've decided to end my subscriptions because deal the deal looks as if its going to happen

Sent from my SM-A908B using Tapatalk

[Gmack7]

I'll be keeping mine going until I hear officially from HSL, not that slaver, it was as if they'd stopped someone after coming out the boozer

[Chipper1875]

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Jim Adie (I think) from HSL on Sky tonight and his comments for me were embarrassing.

Says it’s heartbreaking that HSL shares will be diluted. Questions how we have reached a position where we need fresh external investment. Thinks the accounts are very worrying.

Making a fool of himself IMO. Ignores that we’ve made a loss because we’ve invested in Hospitality, Floodlights, Screens etc.

Not helpful and only stirs division.

Thought his points were valid . Disgusting how Ron and Bydand sports have treated HSL. Incredible they haven’t spoken to HSL but you can guarantee they have spoken to Mr Robb , to get his casting vote. HSL would be nuts to donate money to millionaires the Gordon’s and billionaires Black Knights. Also, look at who owns BK, some of biggest asset managers in the world looking after trillions upon trillions of dollars.

Look at the articles of association and what appears they are trying to do to circumvent due process if the wish to sell the club and our small personal shareholding , bought out of love

[BSEJVT]

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Thought his points were valid . Disgusting how Ron and Bydand sports have treated HSL. Incredible they haven’t spoken to HSL but you can guarantee they have spoken to Mr Robb , to get his casting vote. HSL would be nuts to donate money to millionaires the Gordon’s and billionaires Black Knights. Also, look at who owns BK, some of biggest asset managers in the world looking after trillions upon trillions of dollars.

Look at the articles of association and what appears they are trying to do to circumvent due process if the wish to sell the club and our small personal shareholding , bought out of love

I think that whilst Ron Gordon’s takeover of Hibs and the way it was structured knifed HSL the latest proposal sounds it’s death knell.

I understand how Jim feels as he has put so much into HSL and has had ti deal with so much personally and in his role as Chairman of HSL and he is bound to be scarred and disillusioned by what has transpired.

FWIW I think HSL have been treated abominably by the Gordon’s and whilst I understand why what has happened has happened think they could have dealt better with an organisation which whether the like its existence or not represents 4000 supporters.

They could have dealt with HSL and given them a bit more dignity whilst still reaching the same point

That casual arrogant dismissal doesn’t sit well with me and it’s a further indication that we are consumers rather than supporters now

The Gordon ‘s recognise that to have any chance of success we need to break the mould of how Scottish Football is and we all hope and pray they are successful

If after a while this doesn’t work I wouldn’t be surprised to see a FOH type rescue required

But IMO for the moment HSL has ran its race and donations should cease

The reduced shareholding percentage offers no protection / influence at all and HSL itself should be mothballed and its shares held in trust by a group of Hibs people not aligned with the current board or better still returned to its members

[nonshinyfinish]

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They could have dealt with HSL and given them a bit more dignity whilst still reaching the same point

What would that look like in practice?

If things were to reach the same point as you say (reduced to 7% holding and probably effectively killed off), I'm struggling to think of ways the club could have engaged with HSL that would amount to anything more than just stringing them along.

[Chipper1875]

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I think that whilst Ron Gordon’s takeover of Hibs and the way it was structured knifed HSL the latest proposal sounds it’s death knell.

I understand how Jim feels as he has put so much into HSL and has had ti deal with so much personally and in his role as Chairman of HSL and he is bound to be scarred and disillusioned by what has transpired.

FWIW I think HSL have been treated abominably by the Gordon’s and whilst I understand why what has happened has happened think they could have dealt better with an organisation which whether the like its existence or not represents 4000 supporters.

They could have dealt with HSL and given them a bit more dignity whilst still reaching the same point

That casual arrogant dismissal doesn’t sit well with me and it’s a further indication that we are consumers rather than supporters now

The Gordon ‘s recognise that to have any chance of success we need to break the mould of how Scottish Football is and we all hope and pray they are successful

If after a while this doesn’t work I wouldn’t be surprised to see a FOH type rescue required

But IMO for the moment HSL has ran its race and donations should cease

The reduced shareholding percentage offers no protection / influence at all and HSL itself should be mothballed and its shares held in trust by a group of Hibs people not aligned with the current board or better still returned to its members

All good points, however, Upto HSL members to decide but based on what lve read on the articles, Bydand will sell to BK and all hibs fans shareholders will be wiped out

[Rumble de Thump]

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Thought his points were valid . Disgusting how Ron and Bydand sports have treated HSL. Incredible they haven’t spoken to HSL but you can guarantee they have spoken to Mr Robb , to get his casting vote. HSL would be nuts to donate money to millionaires the Gordon’s and billionaires Black Knights. Also, look at who owns BK, some of biggest asset managers in the world looking after trillions upon trillions of dollars.

Look at the articles of association and what appears they are trying to do to circumvent due process if the wish to sell the club and our small personal shareholding , bought out of love

As far as I'm aware, HSL has only ever passed money to the club for the benefit of the football department and not individuals as you suggest, no matter their financial status.

[CropleyWasGod]

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All good points, however, Upto HSL members to decide but based on what lve read on the articles, Bydand will sell to BK and all hibs fans shareholders will be wiped out

Can you show us that in the proposed Articles?

[Chipper1875]

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Can you show us that in the proposed Articles?

Post on the bounce, guy has reviewed it . Clearly, this is a view and won’t happen until SFA rules allow it.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Post on the bounce, guy has reviewed it . Clearly, this is a view and won’t happen until SFA rules allow it.

Doesn't really answer my question.

Can you cut and paste the particular reference? It's an important point.

[Rick Rude]

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Thought his points were valid . Disgusting how Ron and Bydand sports have treated HSL. Incredible they haven’t spoken to HSL but you can guarantee they have spoken to Mr Robb , to get his casting vote. HSL would be nuts to donate money to millionaires the Gordon’s and billionaires Black Knights. Also, look at who owns BK, some of biggest asset managers in the world looking after trillions upon trillions of dollars.

Look at the articles of association and what appears they are trying to do to circumvent due process if the wish to sell the club and our small personal shareholding , bought out of love

Any more nuts that continuing to take money off people with no clear plan on what to do with it? A lot of said people are still under the impression the money is being passed to the club when it's sitting in a bank doing absolutely nothing.

[Chipper1875]

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As far as I'm aware, HSL has only ever passed money to the club for the benefit of the football department and not individuals as you suggest, no matter their financial status.

I think you know what l mean… also money doesn’t get ring fenced for the “football department “. Terrible word. Everything that’s wrong with modern fitba

[Chipper1875]

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Any more nuts that continuing to take money off people with no clear plan on what to do with it? A lot of said people are still under the impression the money is being passed to the club when it's sitting in a bank doing absolutely nothing.

HSL members agreed to the approach , they know this is happening . If you aren’t an active HSL member then it’s nothing to do with you. If active HSL members decide to stop contributing, that’s their prerogative.

[Rick Rude]

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HSL members agreed to the approach , they know this is happening . If you aren’t an active HSL member then it’s nothing to do with you. If active HSL members decide to stop contributing, that’s their prerogative.

Not really. Members who went to an AGM voted for it. How many of the reported 4000 was that? Then a small note in an email said this was the decision taken. I found out about it later, most people I know who contribute aren't aware of it at all.

I stopped my contributions but the money I paid in is still sitting doing absolutely nothing in a bank account somewhere.

[Daniel 1875]

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Not really. Members who went to an AGM voted for it. How many of the reported 4000 was that? Then a small note in an email said this was the decision taken. I found out about it later, most people I know who contribute aren't aware of it at all.

I stopped my contributions but the money I paid in is still sitting doing absolutely nothing in a bank account somewhere.

That’s not a fair assessment of the situation.

The norm was never money being handed over to the club as a gift. It was being handed over to the club, for use in the football department, to buy shares.

That arrangement was pulled away without any consultation when the majority stake in the club was sold in 2019.

During Covid, members decided to change the direction of travel in the interests of the club to funnel all funds into the football club. That continued for as long as the pandemic lasted with over £500,000 passed on from fans to the club.

A vote was then taken to revert back to the principle and original aims of the organisation.

I’ve been involved in sending countless emails, updating the website, updating the FAQs, replying to countless questions, messages, DMs, PMs, texts, tweets clarifying the position of the organisation and reiterating where the contributions go and what they’re for.

If anyone still doesn’t know where the money is going I’m sorry but I’m really unsure what more we can do to make this clear.

[Chipper1875]

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Not really. Members who went to an AGM voted for it. How many of the reported 4000 was that? Then a small note in an email said this was the decision taken. I found out about it later, most people I know who contribute aren't aware of it at all.

I stopped my contributions but the money I paid in is still sitting doing absolutely nothing in a bank account somewhere.

Commms were issued to members, their Choice if they attended . Like Hibs AGM most shareholders don’t attend or vote

[Chipper1875]

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That’s not a fair assessment of the situation.

The norm was never money being handed over to the club as a gift. It was being handed over to the club, for use in the football department, to buy shares.

That arrangement was pulled away without any consultation when the majority stake in the club was sold in 2019.

During Covid, members decided to change the direction of travel in the interests of the club to funnel all funds into the football club. That continued for as long as the pandemic lasted with over £500,000 passed on from fans to the club.

A vote was then taken to revert back to the principle and original aims of the organisation.

I’ve been involved in sending countless emails, updating the website, updating the FAQs, replying to countless questions, messages, DMs, PMs, texts, tweets clarifying the position of the organisation and reiterating where the contributions go and what they’re for.

If anyone still doesn’t know where the money is going I’m sorry but I’m really unsure what more we can do to make this clear.

Well said

[TrinityHFC]

It has been tricky but HSL are a bit all over the place on decision making.

They say on their website that how they use their votes at the Hibs AGM will be decided by simple majority of the members.

First of all I cant recall being asked about any other AGM votes.

Secondly, why are they Messi g about with emails and the discussions at their own AGM? That isn’t how they say the decision is made.

Lastly, simple majority of members means they need the majority of members, not a majority of those who voted.

Seems like they might be moving to a position where, let’s say 20 people turn up at their AGM and 11 vote for not approving the resolutions. That’s a small number to be influencing a decent percentage of the register.

I’m not sure how their website and their articles line up.

[Chipper1875]

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It has been tricky but HSL are a bit all over the place on decision making.

They say on their website that how they use their votes at the Hibs AGM will be decided by simple majority of the members.

First of all I cant recall being asked about any other AGM votes.

Secondly, why are they Messi g about with emails and the discussions at their own AGM? That isn’t how they say the decision is made.

Lastly, simple majority of members means they need the majority of members, not a majority of those who voted.

Seems like they might be moving to a position where, let’s say 20 people turn up at their AGM and 11 vote for not approving the resolutions. That’s a small number to be influencing a decent percentage of the register.

I’m not sure how their website and their articles line up.

We get it you don’t like HSL…

[Rick Rude]

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That’s not a fair assessment of the situation.

The norm was never money being handed over to the club as a gift. It was being handed over to the club, for use in the football department, to buy shares.

That arrangement was pulled away without any consultation when the majority stake in the club was sold in 2019.

During Covid, members decided to change the direction of travel in the interests of the club to funnel all funds into the football club. That continued for as long as the pandemic lasted with over £500,000 passed on from fans to the club.

A vote was then taken to revert back to the principle and original aims of the organisation.

I’ve been involved in sending countless emails, updating the website, updating the FAQs, replying to countless questions, messages, DMs, PMs, texts, tweets clarifying the position of the organisation and reiterating where the contributions go and what they’re for.

If anyone still doesn’t know where the money is going I’m sorry but I’m really unsure what more we can do to make this clear.

Why not just stop taking money from people then? If it has one aim and that aim is unachievable then why continue? Ron Gordon made clear in the first AGM it wasn't happening.

Yeah people should be aware but there's a reason ever large company on earth is pushing subscriptions, people don't pay that much attention and their payments continue regardless.

[Rocky]

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Doesn't really answer my question.

Can you cut and paste the particular reference? It's an important point.

This is what I put on the Bounce, but I have no idea if I've got the right end of the stick so I also asked Daniel if it was within HSL remit to use funds held to engage a commercial lawyer to give them a once over.



I've had another go at fathoming the proposed Articles of Association and section 14 looks interesting. I think it says that if 80% of shareholders accept a bid from a buyer then ALL shareholders are required to accept it too. Basically if the Gordons and Black Knights decide to sell up then we'll lose our shareholdings too (for a price obviously) and the buyer will end up with 100% of the club. It rings a bell that this sort of thing might be standard practice but I suspect not many are aware of it.

This footnote is included too, not sure if it was intended to be, but it sure makes it sound like the section is intentionally being drafted in a way that suits the Gordons and the Black Knights:

1 AG Note: our logic is to strike the right balance between being close, but not at, the 90% threshold in the Companies Act but with the benefit of a contractual drag mechanism and a slightly lower acceptance threshold than the Companies Act. 75% is too low for BKFE, given it will hold 25%. Burness: on reflection, if we are not going for the 90% threshold then 80% feels right to us so as to ensure we never require more than Bydand and BKFE.

[JohnM1875]

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We get it you don’t like HSL…

They make a totally valid point though

[Chipper1875]

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Why not just stop taking money from people then? If it has one aim and that aim is unachievable then why continue? Ron Gordon made clear in the first AGM it wasn't happening.

Yeah people should be aware but there's a reason ever large company on earth is pushing subscriptions, people don't pay that much attention and their payments continue regardless.

HSL aren’t gangsters forcing people to donate. It’s simple, if people don’t want to they won’t send money.

[Rick Rude]

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Commms were issued to members, their Choice if they attended . Like Hibs AGM most shareholders don’t attend or vote

As you appear in the know, can you confirm how many people attended and voted for compared to members? Would be interested in the percentage.

[Chipper1875]

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They make a totally valid point though

Who is they ?

[Chipper1875]

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As you appear in the know, can you confirm how many people attended and voted for compared to members? Would be interested in the percentage.

I don’t care . If you are an active member , ask HSL. If you aren’t with all due respect it’s none of your business

[JohnM1875]

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Who is they ?

Who do you think I was meaning? The poster you quoted.

[Rick Rude]

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I don’t care . If you are an active member , ask HSL. If you aren’t with all due respect it’s none of your business

Aye some of my money is sitting in their bank account so think I am entitled to know. Guessing it's an embarrassingly low percentage though hence the lack of an answer.