Hsl

[DaveF]

Just browsing the recent email from HSL and the fact that it's shareholding will soon be diluted to 7%

Which makes me think - What's the point of it now?

This isn't a criticism of HSL. I've been on board from the start but the way things are now I need to try and understand if it's a worthwhile vehicle anymore.

And I thought it maybe needed a thread of it's own to discuss the merits.

Anyone got a view?

[Hibeesforever]

The dilution is being forced upon shareholders...why didn't the club ask if the fans wanted to put more money in first..this is not how Sir Tom saw the ownership being set up..

[Pretty Boy]

The benefit for me, arguably the only one now, is that it's a fan owned vehicle with a sizable pot of money ready to go should the need, or ability, to buy shares present itself again in future.

I was at the point of stopping my payments had a decision been taken on how to vote (or to abstain) on the clubs proposals being put forward at the AGM without consulting members but that isn't the case.

I'm still not keen on money being handed over to the club for nothing tangible in return, particularly when the club have actively diluted/are seeking to dilute the fan owned shareholdings (through HSL and individually) twice now. As we approach a point at which less than 25% of shares are in the hands of fans and thus the ability to block special resolutions as a collective goes with it then I'm not convinced handing money over with little held in reserve is wise. In that regards it's incomparable to FoH who have reached an end point we were never likely to reach and is for the moment impossible.

It's going to be a hard sell trying to get people to continue paying in now though.

[Pretty Boy]

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The dilution is being forced upon shareholders...why didn't the club ask if the fans wanted to put more money in first..this is not how Sir Tom saw the ownership being set up..

Technically it's not being forced upon shareholders. If the fans who hold shares vote as a block and there was consensus to do so then the resolution could be voted down. Of course that is highly unlikely to happen because there is every chance a significant majority of those fans will be in favour of the changes and the investment (in whatever form still to be clarified) that comes with it; but then that's the will of the shareholders of the club and it's hard to argue it's been forced upon people who chose to vote for it.

[Bostonhibby]

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Just browsing the recent email from HSL and the fact that it's shareholding will soon be diluted to 7%

Which makes me think - What's the point of it now?

This isn't a criticism of HSL. I've been on board from the start but the way things are now I need to try and understand if it's a worthwhile vehicle anymore.

And I thought it maybe needed a thread of it's own to discuss the merits.

Anyone got a view?

I'm the same and so are a few other members of family. We bought shares directly from the issue and stayed in monthly until Ron Gordon's acquisition diluted the value of the holdings and made getting that protective share holding impossible .

No issue with Ron or his motives its just as folk with bitter memories of the Mercer bid we were in it only for the hope of getting 25%.For me it was never about ownership.

I know at least one nominee shareholder too who had similar Hopes, That's no longer an option.

To me it's a ship that's sailed and was prejudiced a bit by some of the idiocy around Ponzi schemes etc. Whether everyone who joineds aspirations will be met is a moot point but I respected everyone who did whatever they were in for.

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[Brightside]

Should they not just keep it going as a way for fans to invest in player budget? Forget the ownership model as that will never work. But get a point where you are bringing in 200k a quarter, that would be a good amount of money for additional players. (or a wee bit of a top player)

[weecounty hibby]

I stopped my DD a couple of months ago. With no money going into the club anymore I just didn't see the point. My driver for paying in was always to give more money to Hibs, it wasn't necessarily about getting shares myself or having a shareholding as a block, although I understand why folk might like that. Well done to everyone involved in HSL, from the board to the subscribers, for the work done. And a big slap to those who helped to see it fail (maybe not the right term) you know, the ponzi scheme mob

[Stuart93]

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Should they not just keep it going as a way for fans to invest in player budget? Forget the ownership model as that will never work. But get a point where you are bringing in 200k a quarter, that would be a good amount of money for additional players. (or a wee bit of a top player)

But it’s a lot of money to expect supporters just to chuck in for absolutely nothing in return.

And considering how gash we’ve been on the pitch any more going towards the playing budget is getting pished up against the wall

[Stairway 2 7]

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But it’s a lot of money to expect supporters just to chuck in for absolutely nothing in return.

And considering how gash we’ve been on the pitch any more going towards the playing budget is getting pished up against the wall

You wouldn't be forced to pay it! ****bos fans across the road know they are getting nothing for it but put in millions a year. They get to know they own them but what difference does that make, some bootlicker on the board. They don't decide any meaningful decisions it's kidology. They had the advantage of how they were set up in needing the money. Once the direct debits were set then people just continued them

I pay for other useless things I hardly use on direct debit like audible and the gym ha. I'd happily put in an amount monthly if it was promised for the football budget. I'm sure a good amount would do similar. It would obviously be optional and people would be free to keep their hard earned in their pockets.

[VoltaireHibs]

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You wouldn't be forced to pay it! ****bos fans across the road know they are getting nothing for it but put in millions a year. They get to know they own them but what difference does that make, some bootlicker on the board. They don't decide any meaningful decisions it's kidology. They had the advantage of how they were set up in needing the money. Once the direct debits were set then people just continued them

I pay for other useless things I hardly use on direct debit like audible and the gym ha. I'd happily put in an amount monthly if it was promised for the football budget. I'm sure a good amount would do similar. It would obviously be optional and people would be free to keep their hard earned in their pockets.

The neighbours own their club. That's why they pay in. I'm not sure I see the benefit of me handing over chump change to a multi millionaire (IG) and now a billionaire (BF).If they want all the shares and power, okay, no problem, but then it's their money that has to go in.

Say we all donate lots of monthly direct debits, like our neighbours, we perform better on the pitch, the value of the club rises, Ian Gordon sells his share to Foley or whoever and makes a handsome profit, that is not a scenario I am on board with, making people who inherited wealth even richer with my own money. It may not pan out like that, but there's every chance it could. If the Gordon's told us their plans for the future of Hibs as a financial entity, what their long term goals were then it may be worth considering, until that point, for me personally, it's not.

They want control, they put the money in. The fans have been unbelievably loyal re season tickets considering the absolute dross we've had to watch since the Gordon's came in.

[Brightside]

They have a million quid in the bank. Could be handy in the summer.

[GloryGlory]

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The neighbours own their club. That's why they pay in. I'm not sure I see the benefit of me handing over chump change to a multi millionaire (IG) and now a billionaire (BF).If they want all the shares and power, okay, no problem, but then it's their money that has to go in.

Say we all donate lots of monthly direct debits, like our neighbours, we perform better on the pitch, the value of the club rises, Ian Gordon sells his share to Foley or whoever and makes a handsome profit, that is not a scenario I am on board with, making people who inherited wealth even richer with my own money. It may not pan out like that, but there's every chance it could. If the Gordon's told us their plans for the future of Hibs as a financial entity, what their long term goals were then it may be worth considering, until that point, for me personally, it's not.

They want control, they put the money in. The fans have been unbelievably loyal re season tickets considering the absolute dross we've had to watch since the Gordon's came in.

It has been and will be their money going in.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Totally disillusioned tbh.

People keep saying there was no interest in HSL when the shares were available, and its true that progress was slow but we were steadily making our way to our target. If I remember correctly we were at around 20% at the point where the gordons arrived and diluted it down to just over 15%. That's not nothing. We were within touching distance of the goal that a lot of us had. I will never say a word against Tom Farmer after everything he did for us but I felt let down at that point, and afterwards when Ron put a block on individual shareholders selling to HSL or each other.

I'm angry with the idiots who threw a bucket of cold water on any enthusiam or momentum that HSL had at the beginning with their ridiculous slander, libel and lies about it, and I'm angry with HSL themselves for their poor marketing and advertising of themselves for the first two or three years of the organisations existence and also some truly awful communication. As an example I sent them messages or emails at the beginning with a few queries and no one got back to me. I sent follow up messages and still nothing. It was a year later when someone finally got back to me and I got on board. So that's a full year of my contributions that they missed out on and I know others had similar experiences. HsL did then, belatedly get its act together and was driving membership and numbers forward but then the gordons arrived.
Then there was the club itself, who for some reason known only to themselves could barely bring themselves to acknowledge HSL's existence despite getting handed thousands of pounds a month from that organisation and its members. With all of this incompetence, can anyone be surprised that the whole thing is seen as a failure?

What does the future hold for HSL now? I'm not sure I'm bothered tbh. The aims are gone and it would take something special to get me contributing again.

Whole thing feels like an terrible waste of an opportunity.

[VoltaireHibs]

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It has been and will be their money going in.

I know, that's the way it should be. It's the handing money to millionaires but I have an issue with. I think the best thing HSL can do right now is to get as many folk registered as possible, donating or not, in order to create a huge Hibs fan database that can be contacted/mobilised easily if required.

[heid the baw]

As someone who has been contributing regularly, I am now unsure what the point of it is. Happy to keep contributing if it benefits the club but we need clarification as to what that would look like. The original proposal has been outdated for some time and is now completely unachievable.
My preference would be funding of some tangible aspect of youth development. Something ring fenced so that contributers have transparency as to how donations are being used

[Stairway 2 7]

I think it's weird that there is such strong voices every time people say they would like to put money in like hearts fans do ,towards the club. Do people think they are going to be forced to. If you don't want to put in for the various reasons above then don't. I think many would. If your personally against putting in yourself then surely you encourage us mugs that would put in, it's more money for your team especially if it's ring fenced for the player budget

[Tyler Durden]

Jim Adie (I think) from HSL on Sky tonight and his comments for me were embarrassing.

Says it’s heartbreaking that HSL shares will be diluted. Questions how we have reached a position where we need fresh external investment. Thinks the accounts are very worrying.

Making a fool of himself IMO. Ignores that we’ve made a loss because we’ve invested in Hospitality, Floodlights, Screens etc.

Not helpful and only stirs division.

[JohnM1875]

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Jim Adie (I think) from HSL on Sky tonight and his comments for me were embarrassing.

Says it’s heartbreaking that HSL shares will be diluted. Questions how we have reached a position where we need fresh external investment. Thinks the accounts are very worrying.

Making a fool of himself IMO. Ignores that we’ve made a loss because we’ve invested in Hospitality, Floodlights, Screens etc.

Not helpful and only stirs division.

Aye, really poor stuff to be honest. Get he's passionate about HSL but that won't help them at all.

[Jones28]

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Jim Adie (I think) from HSL on Sky tonight and his comments for me were embarrassing.

Says it’s heartbreaking that HSL shares will be diluted. Questions how we have reached a position where we need fresh external investment. Thinks the accounts are very worrying.

Making a fool of himself IMO. Ignores that we’ve made a loss because we’ve invested in Hospitality, Floodlights, Screens etc.

Not helpful and only stirs division.

Yep, he came across as a real slaver.

[Pagan Hibernia]

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Jim Adie (I think) from HSL on Sky tonight and his comments for me were embarrassing.

Says it’s heartbreaking that HSL shares will be diluted. Questions how we have reached a position where we need fresh external investment. Thinks the accounts are very worrying.

Making a fool of himself IMO. Ignores that we’ve made a loss because we’ve invested in Hospitality, Floodlights, Screens etc.

Not helpful and only stirs division.

I didn't see the interview but I'm not sure I'd disagree with him on any of the points you've mentioned

[Tyler Durden]

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I didn't see the interview but I'm not sure I'd disagree with him on any of the points you've mentioned

That’s your prerogative.

I’d expect someone who represents a body of shareholders to be better informed.

[Alex Trager]

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That’s your prerogative.

I’d expect someone who represents a body of shareholders to be better informed.

Is it a matter of fact that the losses account for the capital expenditure.

I thought they were supposed to be separate?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Is it a matter of fact that the losses account for the capital expenditure.

I thought they were supposed to be separate?

Capital expenditure doesn't affect losses.

[Tyler Durden]

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Is it a matter of fact that the losses account for the capital expenditure.

I thought they were supposed to be separate?

Ok so I’ve confused matters myself there.

Looking at the bigger picture. Jim Adie says the whole situation is worrying. Gives the board no credit for the work that’s been undertaken off the field. The fact that it’s been explained that the wage ratio has been recovered during this season.

The fact that the new investment is a massive opportunity for the club.

[jacomo]

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I know, that's the way it should be. It's the handing money to millionaires but I have an issue with. I think the best thing HSL can do right now is to get as many folk registered as possible, donating or not, in order to create a huge Hibs fan database that can be contacted/mobilised easily if required.

Good idea.

[1875Sean]

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I didn't see the interview but I'm not sure I'd disagree with him on any of the points you've mentioned

https://x.com/ScotlandSky/status/1755312865232175500?s=20

Link to interviews

[Rumble de Thump]

It was badly promoted from those running it, with poor communication. Meanwhile some eejits were gaslighting people about ponzi schemes. It was a decent opportunity for the fanbase but we've moved on, and big investment and various opportunities to help the club improve are on the way.

[Alex Trager]

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Capital expenditure doesn't affect losses.

I thought so.

So everyone saying that the £3M losses are down to the hospitality etc. are wrong.

[Ronniekirk]

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I stopped my DD a couple of months ago. With no money going into the club anymore I just didn't see the point. My driver for paying in was always to give more money to Hibs, it wasn't necessarily about getting shares myself or having a shareholding as a block, although I understand why folk might like that. Well done to everyone involved in HSL, from the board to the subscribers, for the work done. And a big slap to those who helped to see it fail (maybe not the right term) you know, the ponzi scheme mob

Think that’s the point I am now at Haven’t cancelled dd yet but am on the brink unless its clear what money is to be used for

[AugustaHibs]

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https://x.com/ScotlandSky/status/1755312865232175500?s=20

Link to interviews

Cheers