Notice of AGM

[CropleyWasGod]

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I might have completely misunderstood this, but aren't all of these calculations based on the nominal 2p value of a share (£1.7m = 85m x 2p shares etc)? Therefore, while the Gordons might be swapping a £5.75m debt for shares of nominal £1.7m value, they might well see the actual value of that stake in the club as higher. Does that make any sense?

You haven't misunderstood at all.

I went down that road, but with half an eye on my real life so I got lost a bit.

If 85m shares are worth £5.75m (by the way, how did we build up that debt?), each share is worth 6.8p

[nonshinyfinish]

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with half an eye on my real life

Bloody part-timers.

[HibbyDave]

It’s all smoke & mirrors.

If they maintain the option to offer shares to everyone ( pre-emptive rights) I would be more aligned with the deal and the club would get more cash I would hope.


This feels very underhand to me.

[TrinityHFC]

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It’s all smoke & mirrors.

If they maintain the option to offer shares to everyone ( pre-emptive rights) I would be more aligned with the deal and the club would get more cash I would hope.


This feels very underhand to me.

There's no point offering shares to existing shareholders first. The other shareholders are not sitting there ready with the millions of pounds to purchase them - and then if they did, what next? This is facilitating investment and partnership that has benefits for the club. There is no point to just offering fans the choice to put more of their money in for nothing to change.

Shares were also available for a long time before the Gordons came along.

[Danderhall Hibs]

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I invested money in the share issue because I wanted to help ensure that Hibs would not fall victims to unscrupulous investors and to keep the club safe in the future.

I don't think it was ever clear to me that the (not too distant )future sale of the club would dilute that investment nor that the new owners could so easily carry on diluting that investment.

The financial advice that they made compulsory to get before buying shares would/should have covered that.

[Hibs4185]

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You haven't misunderstood at all.

I went down that road, but with half an eye on my real life so I got lost a bit.

If 85m shares are worth £5.75m (by the way, how did we build up that debt?), each share is worth 6.8p

This is my first reaction. How on earth is the debt £5.75 million??

We were told £1 million for hospitality, £1 million for vente.

Maybe they’ve paid back the scottish government loan to tidy things up for the investment?

Or they’ve *****ed a lot of money unbeknown to us for little or no effect

[Chipper1875]

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This is my first reaction. How on earth is the debt £5.75 million??

We were told £1 million for hospitality, £1 million for vente.

Maybe they’ve paid back the scottish government loan to tidy things up for the investment?

Or they’ve *****ed a lot of money unbeknown to us for little or no effect

Sorry missed the one million on vente , thought club don’t disclose transfer dealings ?

[HibbyDave]

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There's no point offering shares to existing shareholders first. The other shareholders are not sitting there ready with the millions of pounds to purchase them - and then if they did, what next? This is facilitating investment and partnership that has benefits for the club. There is no point to just offering fans the choice to put more of their money in for nothing to change.

Shares were also available for a long time before the Gordons came along.

You can’t know how many people would have been willing in invest further.
More importantly though is the fact that the pre-emptive right to be offered the option to buy more shares is being over-ridden.

[Smartie]

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This is my first reaction. How on earth is the debt £5.75 million??

We were told £1 million for hospitality, £1 million for vente.

Maybe they’ve paid back the scottish government loan to tidy things up for the investment?

Or they’ve *****ed a lot of money unbeknown to us for little or no effect

Would the final paragraph being true be a surprise to anyone?

[Hibiza]

Shaping up to be a night of fun
.

[CL0762]

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This is my first reaction. How on earth is the debt £5.75 million??

We were told £1 million for hospitality, £1 million for vente.

Maybe they’ve paid back the scottish government loan to tidy things up for the investment?

Or they’ve *****ed a lot of money unbeknown to us for little or no effect

The deal for Vente was done in August, after the current reporting period for these accounts.

Any fees taken/spent in the summer & winter windows will reflect in next years accounts.

[TrinityHFC]

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You can’t know how many people would have been willing in invest further.
More importantly though is the fact that the right to be offered the option to buy more shares is being over-ridden.

There are 156m new shares being allotted. Disapplying this means that these shares do not have to be issued to existing shareholders first.

I can confidently say that the HSL and the other existing private shareholders are not currently sat there with the money ready to purchase those shares - and if we did we aren't bringing to the table what the new investors are.

The power to disapply ceases at the next AGM. This doesn't rule out future shares being made available but to what ends? Fan ownership of Hibs beyond the offer that was there for a number of years is now a ship that has sailed in any material way.

[Zazu62]

How many suites/lounges do we have now I struggle to keep up

[SickBoy32]

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There's no point offering shares to existing shareholders first. The other shareholders are not sitting there ready with the millions of pounds to purchase them - and then if they did, what next? This is facilitating investment and partnership that has benefits for the club. There is no point to just offering fans the choice to put more of their money in for nothing to change.

Shares were also available for a long time before the Gordons came along.

Supposed benefits to the club

Given how our leadership have chronically weakened us since their arrival, there is no guarantee whatsoever this deal with Foley is a good one for Hibernian

[PatHead]

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You haven't misunderstood at all.

I went down that road, but with half an eye on my real life so I got lost a bit.

If 85m shares are worth £5.75m (by the way, how did we build up that debt?), each share is worth 6.8p

Was my first thought re accumulated debt. In addition did we not have cash in the bank when the club was sold?

[linlithgowhibbie]

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As it is on shares cast I reckon it would pass anyway even if HSL voted against.

HSL would only have a right to vote against if they felt that the other shareholders, including them, had the funds and were ready and willing to purchase additional shares to that level.

I've said a few times but the HSL aims and concept was a dead end after the Gordons takeover and will be needing another significant re-think once this goes through. Personally don't think it would be right to be taking more of people's money when the ownership percentage they are aiming for is just not possible.

Well can I just remind you that fans like me are giving the money to HSL, they are not taking it. From previous postings I can see you are not in favour of HSLs stated goals which is fair enough but no need for subtle digs! All in my humble interpretation of your posts!

[GloryGlory]

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It’s all smoke & mirrors.

If they maintain the option to offer shares to everyone ( pre-emptive rights) I would be more aligned with the deal and the club would get more cash I would hope.


This feels very underhand to me.

Is it realistic to expect that a new share offering will be fully subscribed? The last one wasn't - far from it, it was massively undersubscribed, thus Leslie Robb was able to take up more shares and build up a sizeable holding.

And even in the subsequent period, when HSL still had the opportunity to buy shares, the amount of subscriptions from members were frankly not near good enough (I'm a fully paid up member of HSL, BTW) and didn't allow for more shares to be purchased.

So a new offering would likely fall flat, particularly in the middle of a cost of living crisis. Most people just couldn't afford it, certainly not in the amounts needed to match the INITIAL BK £6 million investment..

[Pagan Hibernia]

Well it's bad news for HSL and those of us who want supporters to safeguard a minority of the club to keep it from harm.

What the hell was the point in the agreement with Farmer and the club to begin with? Feels like, as usual, the fans are the losers. Take their money, then sweep the rug out from under their feet

[Chipper1875]

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Was my first thought re accumulated debt. In addition did we not have cash in the bank when the club was sold?

Yes , it’s concerning. Plus the loan from the government.

[GloryGlory]

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There's no point offering shares to existing shareholders first. The other shareholders are not sitting there ready with the millions of pounds to purchase them - and then if they did, what next? This is facilitating investment and partnership that has benefits for the club. There is no point to just offering fans the choice to put more of their money in for nothing to change.

Shares were also available for a long time before the Gordons came along.

[Ringothedog]

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How many suites/lounges do we have now I struggle to keep up

Not enough as they are sold out for the vast majority of the games. But in answer to your question there are , Albion Bar, Tornadoes, Edinburgh Club and Pioneers. There are a couple others but I have no idea how you get access to them

[matty_f]

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Well can I just remind you that fans like me are giving the money to HSL, they are not taking it. From previous postings I can see you are not in favour of HSLs stated goals which is fair enough but no need for subtle digs! All in my humble interpretation of your posts!

I don’t think it was a dig at HSL, just a fairly accurate summary of events.

[TrinityHFC]

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Well can I just remind you that fans like me are giving the money to HSL, they are not taking it. From previous postings I can see you are not in favour of HSLs stated goals which is fair enough but no need for subtle digs! All in my humble interpretation of your posts!

If you have a direct debit set up they are taking it.

I'm a member too - but it has been difficult for HSL.

The take up wasn't really great to begin with when everything was open - for lots of reasons, not all of them in their control. Then the takeover came and one of the main goals, to build up a shareholding of 25% was pretty much dead. So too was the principle that money they use to buy shares goes to the club. After the takeover, for any future share purchases the cash would need to go to a shareholder. Members decided none the less that they wanted to keep the goal as buying shares and not using any of the money to donate to the club, fine too but the reality is that money is and will come in and there's no prospect of using to meet the goals. The holding will be down to about 7% so again, and I repeat I'm a member in that collective, the members will need to think about how right it is to keep putting money in when the goals haven't just moved, they've been dismantled.

[matty_f]

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Well it's bad news for HSL and those of us who want supporters to safeguard a minority of the club to keep it from harm.

What the hell was the point in the agreement with Farmer and the club to begin with? Feels like, as usual, the fans are the losers. Take their money, then sweep the rug out from under their feet

We had ages to buy those shares from STF, but folk campaigned against HSL and the share issue, people didn’t buy into it (literally and figuratively).


We had an open goal with a tap-in if we wanted to safeguard the club and all buy shares but we ****ed it.

[LunasBoots]

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Well it's bad news for HSL and those of us who want supporters to safeguard a minority of the club to keep it from harm.

What the hell was the point in the agreement with Farmer and the club to begin with? Feels like, as usual, the fans are the losers. Take their money, then sweep the rug out from under their feet

Wasn't enough fans that bought into it unfortunately, goalposts also moved after Farmer left.

[matty_f]

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You haven't misunderstood at all.

I went down that road, but with half an eye on my real life so I got lost a bit.

If 85m shares are worth £5.75m (by the way, how did we build up that debt?), each share is worth 6.8p

Could that be how Foley’s money has gone in?

It’s close to the £6m quoted and if they’re creating new shares and allocating them for debt, would that tie in?

[TrinityHFC]

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Wasn't enough fans that bought into it unfortunately, goalposts also moved after Farmer left.

I also don't think in reality that fan ownership or any major collective was the main goal for a lot of people. I bought the shares direct because I just wanted to be an actual shareholder for the certificate and the AGM invite!

I joined HSL as a way of donating every month direct to Hibs, which was made possible by STF being happy for his own holding to be diluted and the money to go straight to the club. Personally I wasn't bothered about HSL building a holding, getting seat on the board or being able to block any votes in the future. I accept lots of people did have that goal but it would be wrong I think to say that at the time there was any big feeling that we had to build up a shareholding as part of the STF offer.

[superfurryhibby]

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I don’t think it was a dig at HSL, just a fairly accurate summary of events.

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We had ages to buy those shares from STF, but folk campaigned against HSL and the share issue, people didn’t buy into it (literally and figuratively).


We had an open goal with a tap-in if we wanted to safeguard the club and all buy shares but we ****ed it.

I don't think you've really done the efforts of the fans justice with those observations. Between HSL and small shareholders, there was something like 28% of the club purchased before dilution. That represents a lot of cash and a massive effort, particularly as the club wasn't facing extinction at the time. Some of us had also done this before and been stung before (thanks Mr Duff and accomplices).

[GloryGlory]

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I also don't think in reality that fan ownership or any major collective was the main goal for a lot of people. I bought the shares direct because I just wanted to be an actual shareholder for the certificate and the AGM invite!

I joined HSL as a way of donating every month direct to Hibs, which was made possible by STF being happy for his own holding to be diluted and the money to go straight to the club. Personally I wasn't bothered about HSL building a holding, getting seat on the board or being able to block any votes in the future. I accept lots of people did have that goal but it would be wrong I think to say that at the time there was any big feeling that we had to build up a shareholding as part of the STF offer.

I'm the same - I bought shares on my own account and also contributed to HSL to buy shares. Whilst I'm glad for HSL to be involved with the club as shareholders I wouldn't be happy for my admittedly tiny part of HSL's shareholding to be voted against this opportunity of new investment to benefit the club. I suppose HSL will consult members to see what our view is

[matty_f]

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I don't think you've really done the efforts of the fans justice with those observations. Between HSL and small shareholders, there was something like 28% of the club purchased before dilution. That represents a lot of cash and a massive effort, particularly as the club wasn't facing extinction at the time. Some of us had also done this before and been stung before (thanks Mr Duff and accomplices).

I don't think I'm miles off, to be honest. I bought some shares and I bought into HSL as well - it's not what we did, it's what we didn't do.

I think folk got behind it to an extent, but I don't think anyone could put their hand on their heart and say that the support galvanised and got behind it. There were folk that wouldn't buy into HSL because they didn't like the name, FFS.

I don't want to be disparaging to those of us who backed it, but as a support we can't complain that the option's no longer on the table when we looked the other way when it was there, IMHO.