Scottish Clubs in Europe

[Lancs Harp]

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Noway - population 5.5m
TV Deal - £55m

Which ever way you assess it, £25m (30m from next year) for Scottish football is a great deal for the broadcasters and a terrible deal for the Scottish game.

It is a bad deal for the Scottish game but the broadcasters will be paying what they think the product is worth. No one seems to be queueing up to pay more.

Is this an issue with the Broadcasters or the actual product? Or a bit of both?

[DH1875]

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Noway - population 5.5m
TV Deal - £55m

Which ever way you assess it, £25m (30m from next year) for Scottish football is a great deal for the broadcasters and a terrible deal for the Scottish game.

Especially when you consider (as much as we hate them) that we supposedly have 2 of the biggest clubs in the world in our league. Yeah its crap they show their away games and don't show the derby but if they are the selling point, then sell it.

[007]

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TV deals

Netherlands £90m (£170m from 2025)
Greece £58m
Sweden £40m
Scotland £25m (£30m from 2025)

Think about the year on year cumulative effect. BBC Scotland are a vasel offshoot of BBC England who have no interest in Scottish football.

Very good article about how PAOK refused a poor TV deal a few years ago and went alone with their own streaming and subsequently got a much better deal a few years later (they still control their overseas rights). The deal Scottish clubs are getting is poor and, given the issues we have with Hibs TV, we could do worse than getting a teach in from PAOK about how to do it.

That's just the total amounts though, what about other factors such as the number of matches? For example the Greek and Swedish deals are for 4 times the number of games of the Scottish deal so they're getting a lot less per game than we are. Don't know how many the Dutch deal is for.

[Since90+2]

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Especially when you consider (as much as we hate them) that we supposedly have 2 of the biggest clubs in the world in our league. Yeah its crap they show their away games and don't show the derby but if they are the selling point, then sell it.

We don't have 2 of the biggest clubs in the world in our league. That's just nonsense trotted out by the West Coast Media.

Do you think if you asked fans in England, Spain, Italy, Germany ect ect to name in their opinion the biggest clubs anyone would say either of the old firm? You could probably ask a 1000 fans in each and id be confident none would name either of the Glasgow clubs.

[Michael]

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We don't have 2 of the biggest clubs in the world in our league. That's just nonsense trotted out by the West Coast Media.

Do you think if you asked fans in England, Spain, Italy, Germany ect ect to name in their opinion the biggest clubs anyone would say either of the old firm? You could probably ask a 1000 fans in each and id be confident none would name either of the Glasgow clubs.

Don't know about that, anywhere I go people talk to me about the old firm derby (until I tell them about the hibees).

[Since90+2]

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Don't know about that, anywhere I go people talk to me about the old firm derby (until I tell them about the hibees).

It's a big derby no doubt. But so is the Belgrade derby, doesn't make their clubs amongst the biggest in the world.

[Is It On....]

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It is a bad deal for the Scottish game but the broadcasters will be paying what they think the product is worth. No one seems to be queueing up to pay more.

Is this an issue with the Broadcasters or the actual product? Or a bit of both?

They are paying what they can get away with; £30m for Scottish Football vs £15m for English Women's Football

[Lancs Harp]

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They are paying what they can get away with; £30m for Scottish Football vs £15m for English Women's Football

They are paying what they think its worth and there isnt a queue of Broadcasters waiting to step in and pay more.

[Is It On....]

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They are paying what they think its worth and there isnt a queue of Broadcasters waiting to step in and pay more.

https://offthepitch.com/a/paok-fc-disrupted-football-tv-rights-greece-when-they-rejected-broadcast-deal-favour-their-own

[Michael]

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It's a big derby no doubt. But so is the Belgrade derby, doesn't make their clubs amongst the biggest in the world.

Depends who you define biggest clubs I guess. Obviously they have no draw whatsoever for top players, but they are two of the most supported clubs.

[Since90+2]

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Depends who you define biggest clubs I guess. Obviously they have no draw whatsoever for top players, but they are two of the most supported clubs.

Theres probably about a dozen clubs in South America alone who have bigger supports than them.

[Pagan Hibernia]

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The percentage of population point is a bit mute a bit of a comfort blanket. Most of that figure are watching Celtic or Rangers. None of the rest of us average 20,000 its a very dificult issue to resolve. Money comes from tv and sponsorship but quite obviously our product doesnt attract the required audience. How do you resolve that?

I mean, most leagues will have a couple of big clubs that people want to watch and who will also inflate the overall attendance figures for that league.

I doubt if there's many people outside a particular country that really want to watch matches not involving the biggest teams in that country. Same as here. Yet our TV deal is still rubbish compared to other places

[Is It On....]

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They are paying what they think its worth and there isnt a queue of Broadcasters waiting to step in and pay more.

How many organisations do you think the BBC is competing against to have to pay Lineker, Shearer, Richards and Jenus c£4m (inc benefits) per year? We need professionals at the top of our game to sort this out because we will fall that little bit further behind for every year that passes without change

[He's here!]

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People in Scotland pay Sky etc subscriptions to watch English football, and to a lesser extent Rangers/Celtic there is no market for anything else. Who watches Scottish club football on TV? Very rarely me, zero interest other than watching Hibs, and can't remember last time I paid to watch Hibs on TV.

You just need to look at today's fixtures featuring Killie, Ross Co, Livi, St Mirren, Dundee and St Johnstone. Who, apart from fans of those clubs, would actually opt to spend their afternoon watching them if the games were on TV? As someone else has said, the Sky deal is for Old Firm fans to watch away games.

[ScottB]

The problem with TV deals is you can’t compare us to other small nations, because as a TV market, we aren’t a country. We share a broadcast market with not just one bigger league, but arguably 3 or 4 that are bigger. We’ve basically got a TV deal for a 4th or 5th tier league in one country.

If Scotland was a country in its own right, our own Sky equivalent would have foreign rights to show English games (way cheaper) and the Scottish rights as its primary focus. But instead we have a single British Sky, BBC etc that, quite understandably, sees the English Premier League, Championship etc as the main product. Within the UK market, the SPL is small, probably floating around League 1 or 2 in terms of attendance, average audience etc.

[Keith_M]

Austria, which literally has no teams anywhere near the size* of the OF and where football is not the main sport (it's skiing) have an annual TV deal of £40M.

The population is roughly 60% larger than Scotland's but most have little to no interest in football (so very much different to here)



* The best supported club by far is Rapid, which has average attendances around the same as Hibs and Hearts

[chippy]

Two options that could see a substantial TV deal or deals:
1) SPFL tv steaming service - your clubs away games available live- surely that would generate increased revenues ? No middleman with Sky or BT
2) A televised Atlantic league: run in conjunction with a 16 team premier league. Swedish, Norwegian, Finnish, Danish, Irish clubs. Structured like the new Uefa formats that start next year. Say 40 clubs with Scotland getting 8 teams . Play 10 games in group stage 5 home 5 away. Top 16 qualify for knock outs. That’s a market of 40 million. Only way we’ll get a decent TV deal

[PHeffernan]

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Two options that could see a substantial TV deal or deals:
1) SPFL tv steaming service - your clubs away games available live- surely that would generate increased revenues ? No middleman with Sky or BT
2) A televised Atlantic league: run in conjunction with a 16 team premier league. Swedish, Norwegian, Finnish, Danish, Irish clubs. Structured like the new Uefa formats that start next year. Say 40 clubs with Scotland getting 8 teams . Play 10 games in group stage 5 home 5 away. Top 16 qualify for knock outs. That’s a market of 40 million. Only way we’ll get a decent TV deal

Re 1. I can't see it working given how many people will simply steal the games with IPTV firesticks and small sales equals small money.

[7Hero]

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I actually thought Hibs and Hearts had decent results against Lucern and Rosenberg. The days of Hibs beating Napoli, Hearts beating Bayern Munich at home etc are over. If Hibs got massive investment from a multi-millionaire, our results would improve hugely. Simple really.

we are already owned by a multi millionaire, we need a Billionaire...

[PHeffernan]

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Noway - population 5.5m
TV Deal - £55m

Which ever way you assess it, £25m (30m from next year) for Scottish football is a great deal for the broadcasters and a terrible deal for the Scottish game.

Is that right?
The Norwegian TV deal is for their top 2 leagues.
€48m is the cut for their top league but there is far more to it than that.
1. Every match is shown live which destroys their attendances and therefore their matchday incomes.
2. There are 16 teams in their top league so the TV money to each club is further diluted.

In conclusion next season the Norwegian TV deal will be worth an average £400k more per club than the Scottish TV deal.
However, our matchday revenues (tickets, food, hospitality, shop etc etc) will dwarf those of the Norwegian clubs.
So our total matchday revenues, including TV money, far outstrip the Norwegians and our large attendances make for a far better matchday experience for those that go to our games.

[007]

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Austria, which literally has no teams anywhere near the size* of the OF and where football is not the main sport (it's skiing) have an annual TV deal of £40M.

The population is roughly 60% larger than Scotland's but most have little to no interest in football (so very much different to here)



* The best supported club by far is Rapid, which has average attendances around the same as Hibs and Hearts

Theirs is 40 million Euros not Pounds.

The SPFL deal works out at around £500k per match, how much are the Austrians getting per match?

[007]

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Noway - population 5.5m
TV Deal - £55m

Which ever way you assess it, £25m (30m from next year) for Scottish football is a great deal for the broadcasters and a terrible deal for the Scottish game.

What about if you assess it by how much is paid per match, how do they compare?

[chippy]

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Re 1. I can't see it working given how many people will simply steal the games with IPTV firesticks and small sales equals small money.

Not everyone is screwing the system. If it was done as an away TV season ticket bought from your club?

[Keith_M]

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Theirs is 40 million Euros not Pounds....

Apologies, you're right, I must have misread that. So it's roughly £35M per year.

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...

The SPFL deal works out at around £500k per match, how much are the Austrians getting per match?

Not sure, I'll see if I can find out.

[DH1875]

Interesting that Croatia only gets €9 million per season.
Also Interesting that Scotland gets £500k per game which actually works out to be quite a lot compared to the other leagues (outwith the top 5 big leagues).

[Kato]

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Interesting that Croatia only gets €9 million per season.
Also Interesting that Scotland gets £500k per game which actually works out to be quite a lot compared to the other leagues (outwith the top 5 big leagues).

Quite a lot for Celtc and the Rangers though.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Michael]

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Re 1. I can't see it working given how many people will simply steal the games with IPTV firesticks and small sales equals small money.

It's been shown that if you provide a simple and reliable service then piracy declines. You could say the same about any streaming service - there is always a way to bypass paying if you can be bothered.

[ancient hibee]

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The problem with TV deals is you can’t compare us to other small nations, because as a TV market, we aren’t a country. We share a broadcast market with not just one bigger league, but arguably 3 or 4 that are bigger. We’ve basically got a TV deal for a 4th or 5th tier league in one country.

If Scotland was a country in its own right, our own Sky equivalent would have foreign rights to show English games (way cheaper) and the Scottish rights as its primary focus. But instead we have a single British Sky, BBC etc that, quite understandably, sees the English Premier League, Championship etc as the main product. Within the UK market, the SPL is small, probably floating around League 1 or 2 in terms of attendance, average audience etc.

What does our own Sky equivalent mean? If showing Scottish games was its main function it wouldn't last a season. No other country would be interested .

[pacorosssco]

How many folk in England but sky to watch rangers Celtic games doubt many. The other clubs should be pushing share the money equally. The sfa SPL should only let teams have the same number of games each to speed out

[ScottB]

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What does our own Sky equivalent mean? If showing Scottish games was its main function it wouldn't last a season. No other country would be interested .

My point was you can’t compare our deal to whatever Denmark, Norway etc get because they are single broadcast markets, with their own TV broadcaster bidding for their own rights as a primary, then other countries as foreign rights, which are consequently cheaper.

We’re the odd one out as we are functionally in the same country as 3 or 4 much bigger leagues, so folk saying Sky should give us more, or the BBC need to spend X are missing that point.

If Scotland was a country with its own broadcasters etc then you could compare whatever those companies were bidding for Scottish football rights to those similar sized nations, for good or for ill. As it stands you’d be better off comparing the SPL deal to whatever Serie C gets.