Boyler out of World Cup and the rest of the season.

[Stubbsy90+2]

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The club he signed for also didn’t spot any issues in his medical either? Think you’ve called this one wrong to be honest. It was only flagged up when the surgeon actually went in to take a look following his meniscus injury.

I can’t say I’m all that bothered whether other teams missed it or not, us missing it has cost us.

The injury wasn’t flagged up when the surgeon went in to look at it. It was flagged up when they realised he would need surgery on his miniscus, not when Boyles knee was cut open. Boyle confirmed this.

It was visible as it was spotted on scans before the operation. We also done scans and didn’t see it. It’s been missed numerous times by us/the people we employ to do the scans.

[CockneyRebel]

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The club he signed for also didn’t spot any issues in his medical either? Think you’ve called this one wrong to be honest. It was only flagged up when the surgeon actually went in to take a look following his meniscus injury.

You're flogging a dead horse pal - the guys "in the know" have given their expert opinions and it's all the club's fault, we should have a top surgeon on standby at all times.

[Iain G]

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I can’t say I’m all that bothered whether other teams missed it or not, us missing it has cost us.

The injury wasn’t flagged up when the surgeon went in to look at it. It was flagged up when they realised he would need surgery on his miniscus, not when Boyles knee was cut open. Boyle confirmed this.

It was visible as it was spotted on scans before the operation. We also done scans and didn’t see it. It’s been missed numerous times by us/the people we employ to do the scans.

We should sack all these scam scanners! They missed the pandemic coming as well.

[Callum_62]

Did Ian Gordon see the scans though?

Surely to christ we send folk to have scans at dedicated medical facilities and the results of these scans are looked over by dedicated medical professionals at said facility?

If something has been missed by them (and also the club Boyle signed for) I'm sure it must've been either quite unusual or hard to detect or both



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[Iain G]

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Did Ian Gordon see the scans though?

Surely to christ we send folk to have scans at dedicated medical facilities and the results of these scans are looked over by dedicated medical professionals at said facility?

If something has been missed by them (and also the club Boyle signed for) I'm sure it must've been either quite unusual or hard to detect or both



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Something that for SEVEN YEARS people have not spotted, including the club he signed for in Saudi.

It would suggest that it has been very hard to detect, or that a whole bunch of medical professionals are incompetent...you decide which side of that logic fence you want to be on

[Heisenberg]

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Did Ian Gordon see the scans though?

Surely to christ we send folk to have scans at dedicated medical facilities and the results of these scans are looked over by dedicated medical professionals at said facility?

If something has been missed by them (and also the club Boyle signed for) I'm sure it must've been either quite unusual or hard to detect or both


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Yes exactly, it was clearly not easy to pick up on the usual scans. The story from today reads to me that the surgeon didn’t even know for sure until he’d opened his knee up. He was told a worst case scenario not exactly what was wrong.

“Speaking to the surgeon he mentioned the worst case scenario was there would be a little bit of damage to the anterior cruciate.

“He dug a hole and opened me up.

“Basically, what I have is discoid meniscus, where I have a larger meniscus than normal – so that was keeping everything in place, my cruciate stable.”

[Stubbsy90+2]

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Something that for SEVEN YEARS people have not spotted, including the club he signed for in Saudi.

It would suggest that it has been very hard to detect, or that a whole bunch of medical professionals are incompetent...you decide which side of that logic fence you want to be on

He’s been at Hibs for 7 years other than one very brief stint away, so it would be Hibs and whoever we use for the scans dealing with all this stuff for that period. So not quite a ‘whole bunch’ much more ‘the same bunch’.

Hard to detect or not, that’s why we do medicals and scans. We’re talking millions of pounds of football player/wages here, these people are paid to detect this stuff when the club are making a financial commitment like that whether it’s hard to detect or not. If the medical team and/or the company we use for this sort of stuff can only detect the blatantly obvious stuff then they’re not good enough, especially when they were completely unable to diagnose another of our players injuries for months previously. Or probably just unlucky, that’ll be it.

[Iain G]

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He’s been at Hibs for 7 years other than one very brief stint away, so it would be Hibs and whoever we use for the scans dealing with all this stuff for that period. So not quite a ‘whole bunch’ much more ‘the same bunch’.

Could be different a lot of different bunches!

Am sure we have used different specialists and medical facilities in the 7 years, Martin has had injuries that have been treated already, never mind that we have changed our in house medical teams, add in Australian medical teams and Saudi Arabian medical teams and that's a lot of incompetence you are identifying!

Maybe none of them can tell left from right of course

[Sergio sledge]

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He’s been at Hibs for 7 years other than one very brief stint away, so it would be Hibs and whoever we use for the scans dealing with all this stuff for that period. So not quite a ‘whole bunch’ much more ‘the same bunch’.

Hard to detect or not, that’s why we do medicals and scans. We’re talking millions of pounds of football player/wages here, these people are paid to detect this stuff when the club are making a financial commitment like that whether it’s hard to detect or not. If the medical team and/or the company we use for this sort of stuff can only detect the blatantly obvious stuff then they’re not good enough, especially when they were completely unable to diagnose another of our players injuries for months previously. Or probably just unlucky, that’ll be it.

I think it is clear from the quotes from Boyle today that they genuinely didn't know the injury was there until he went into the operation and they started working on the meniscus.

"Long story, short, I’ve actually had this ACL injury for six, seven years. I have been trying to digest that myself. You get put to sleep and you wake up and your whole knee has been reconstructed."

If there is an injury which wasn't apparent on the scans we did, wasn't apparent on the scans the specialist in Manchester did, and wasn't apparent on the scans they did out at the world cup and only became visible when they opened up the knee, surely Hibs can't be blamed for that? There's no way any club medical would involve exploratory surgery which would have been the only way to identify this injury.

I do think you have a point in the wider sense that we do seem to have had a pretty bad run of injuries and the club should be reviewing how they do things, training schedules and loads, recovery methods, physio provision, who they use for medical assessments and procedures etc. to see if it is just bad luck or if there is some underlying issue to it.

Obviously we are looking at it from a Hibs perspective though and it would be interesting to see if there is any way of comparing time lost to injuries between clubs to see if we are any worse than other clubs in the league or if we just perceive ourselves to be.

[SlickShoes]

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He’s been at Hibs for 7 years other than one very brief stint away, so it would be Hibs and whoever we use for the scans dealing with all this stuff for that period. So not quite a ‘whole bunch’ much more ‘the same bunch’.

Hard to detect or not, that’s why we do medicals and scans. We’re talking millions of pounds of football player/wages here, these people are paid to detect this stuff when the club are making a financial commitment like that whether it’s hard to detect or not. If the medical team and/or the company we use for this sort of stuff can only detect the blatantly obvious stuff then they’re not good enough, especially when they were completely unable to diagnose another of our players injuries for months previously. Or probably just unlucky, that’ll be it.

This is just any excuse to paint hibs in a bad light as usual.

Scans are not definitive, should we cut open every player we sign to check the integrity of all their ligaments?

[Stubbsy90+2]

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This is just any excuse to paint hibs in a bad light as usual.

Scans are not definitive, should we cut open every player we sign to check the integrity of all their ligaments?

Should we just accept that our medical team regularly get it wrong? Missing Boyles ACL injury on numerous occasions, not being able to ascertain that Boyle would need surgery on his miniscus and sending him off to the World Cup thinking he’d be able to play, being unable to diagnose Magennis’ injury for numerous months, giving a wildly incorrect timeline for recovery for McGeadys injury, allowing JDH to carry on training for a week despite having a fractured ankle, allowing Porteous to keep on trying to play on against Rangers when everyone in the stadium could see he shouldn’t be on the pitch.

Throw in our regular inability to keep players fit when they come back from these injuries.

These things have footballing consequences. Our seasons get derailed by injury year after year. The injuries listed above have probably been the main reasons for this and they’ve all had aspects of them that have been really poorly dealt with by the club.

Catching Boyles ACL on a scan would have potentially meant we didn’t commit a 7 figure sum to signing him. Not diagnosing his miniscus issue properly lead to him waiting 4 weeks or so for his op. Obviously he’s had his ACL but if he hadn’t thats 4 weeks we had wasted that he could have been recovering and closer to being back on the pitch. McGeady being out for 6 weeks or 20 as he has been could have been the difference between us deciding whether to sign another winger or not. Magennis not being able to stay fit has cost us dearly for 2 seasons now.

[Smartie]

To the layperson, Hibs appear to be having a lot of problems with injured players, too many to put down to bad luck.

I know nothing about knee ligament injuries though, and how straightforward it is to diagnose ACL problems, the type of which Boyle has had.

Again as a layperson - are we sure he needed the repair? His performance levels over the 6-7 year period with the damaged ACL and enlarged meniscus compensating have been very high. Will Hibs have been asked for their consent as his employer to take a “whilst you’re in there do anything you feel necessary” approach, including drastic ligament surgery?

I guess deep down I still sufficiently trust the competence of professionals and respect sporting outfits like Hibs and the Australian National side to know what they’re doing better than my “man in the pub” logic.

Hibs are certainly trying that patience though.

[Donegal Hibby]

Martin Boyle must be just a brilliant character to have in your squad. 😂
https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/s...elder-25628860

[MrRobot]

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It doesn’t surprise me in the slightest that we haven’t diagnosed it.

The fact we’ve wrote off over a million quid to bring a player back 3 months ago and the medical didn’t flag up that he had an ACL injury (which only 3 months later is at the stage of needing an operation that keeps him out for 9 months or so) is laughable really. What’s the point in doing a medical if we can’t spot this sort of thing?

Probably just bad luck I suppose.

Do players tend to get knee scans as part of their medical? I suspect they undergo heart scans and things but never actually been sure what a medical involves.

[blackpoolhibs]

I thought someones arse would be getting a huge boot up it after Boyle had discovered he needed ACL reconstruction, but after hearing what's happened, and how he's been able to play through this slight tear for a number of years.

I'm quite prepard to believe what the experts are saying, and this type of injury may not show up on a scan, and the only way to see it is when you go in and have a look.

[green day]

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He’s been at Hibs for 7 years other than one very brief stint away, so it would be Hibs and whoever we use for the scans dealing with all this stuff for that period. So not quite a ‘whole bunch’ much more ‘the same bunch’.

Hard to detect or not, that’s why we do medicals and scans. We’re talking millions of pounds of football player/wages here, these people are paid to detect this stuff when the club are making a financial commitment like that whether it’s hard to detect or not. If the medical team and/or the company we use for this sort of stuff can only detect the blatantly obvious stuff then they’re not good enough, especially when they were completely unable to diagnose another of our players injuries for months previously. Or probably just unlucky, that’ll be it.

Probably didn't have an extensive medical for the Saudi Club that paid us £3m either, eh?

Maybe the Saudis imported the crappy doctors that you think Hibs and that Manchester clinic have?

Or.......maybe what you need to do is accept that medicine is not always an exact science, and that Hibs are not always to blame?

[JimBHibees]

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I thought someones arse would be getting a huge boot up it after Boyle had discovered he needed ACL reconstruction, but after hearing what's happened, and how he's been able to play through this slight tear for a number of years.

I'm quite prepard to believe what the experts are saying, and this type of injury may not show up on a scan, and the only way to see it is when you go in and have a look.

Agree

[JimBHibees]

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Do players tend to get knee scans as part of their medical? I suspect they undergo heart scans and things but never actually been sure what a medical involves.

Would assume only if he had previous ACL type injuries.

[green day]

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Would assume only if he had previous ACL type injuries.

Like Martin Boyle?

[Iain G]

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Should we just accept that our medical team regularly get it wrong? Missing Boyles ACL injury on numerous occasions, not being able to ascertain that Boyle would need surgery on his miniscus and sending him off to the World Cup thinking he’d be able to play, being unable to diagnose Magennis’ injury for numerous months, giving a wildly incorrect timeline for recovery for McGeadys injury, allowing JDH to carry on training for a week despite having a fractured ankle, allowing Porteous to keep on trying to play on against Rangers when everyone in the stadium could see he shouldn’t be on the pitch.

Throw in our regular inability to keep players fit when they come back from these injuries.

These things have footballing consequences. Our seasons get derailed by injury year after year. The injuries listed above have probably been the main reasons for this and they’ve all had aspects of them that have been really poorly dealt with by the club.

Catching Boyles ACL on a scan would have potentially meant we didn’t commit a 7 figure sum to signing him. Not diagnosing his miniscus issue properly lead to him waiting 4 weeks or so for his op. Obviously he’s had his ACL but if he hadn’t thats 4 weeks we had wasted that he could have been recovering and closer to being back on the pitch. McGeady being out for 6 weeks or 20 as he has been could have been the difference between us deciding whether to sign another winger or not. Magennis not being able to stay fit has cost us dearly for 2 seasons now.

You forgot to mention Mark McGraw in your rambling list of previously injured players.

[green day]

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It doesn’t surprise me in the slightest that we haven’t diagnosed it.

The fact we’ve wrote off over a million quid to bring a player back 3 months ago and the medical didn’t flag up that he had an ACL injury (which only 3 months later is at the stage of needing an operation that keeps him out for 9 months or so) is laughable really. What’s the point in doing a medical if we can’t spot this sort of thing?

Probably just bad luck I suppose.

Read the next post and tell me FF post doesnt make more sense than the tinfoil hat nonsense you have been running with for days now................

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Aye, but Al Faisaly gave him a medical when we sold him to them and didn’t pick it up, so presumably it was well hidden.

Just as well he travelled over to Qatar with Australia or it would still be undiagnosed.

[Stubbsy90+2]

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Read the next post and tell me FF post doesnt make more sense than the tinfoil hat nonsense you have been running with for days now................

It can be well hidden all it wants. The medical team missed numerous chances to spot it. If all they can spot is blatantly obvious injuries then what are we paying them for?

They also couldn’t identify Kyle Magennis’ injury for over 2 months. They didn’t realise that Boyle would need surgery on his miniscus and sent him off to the World Cup hoping he’d actually play when in reality he required an operation. They said McGeady would be out 6 weeks, it’ll be in excess of 20. They allowed JDH to carry on training for a week with a fractured ankle.

This isn’t based solely off Martin Boyle and his ACL. It’s over numerous situations in recent times. The ACL is just another one to add to the list. I’ve said numerous times before Boyle got injured that we should be looking into our injury situation a bit deeper rather than just shrugging our shoulders and claiming we’re cursed.

[Since452]

I bet he's still back before Kyle Magennis.

[Iain G]

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It can be well hidden all it wants. The medical team missed numerous chances to spot it. If all they can spot is blatantly obvious injuries then what are we paying them for?

They also couldn’t identify Kyle Magennis’ injury for over 2 months. They didn’t realise that Boyle would need surgery on his miniscus and sent him off to the World Cup hoping he’d actually play when in reality he required an operation. They said McGeady would be out 6 weeks, it’ll be in excess of 20. They allowed JDH to carry on training for a week with a fractured ankle.

This isn’t based solely off Martin Boyle and his ACL. It’s over numerous situations in recent times. The ACL is just another one to add to the list. I’ve said numerous times before Boyle got injured that we should be looking into our injury situation a bit deeper rather than just shrugging our shoulders and claiming we’re cursed.

It's clearly not a blatantly obvious injury given its been seven years, multiple medical professionals and Martin clearly very happily and successfully playing through most of those seven years and earning himself a multi million pound move and representing his country!

[Forza Fred]

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Could be different a lot of different bunches!

Am sure we have used different specialists and medical facilities in the 7 years, Martin has had injuries that have been treated already, never mind that we have changed our in house medical teams, add in Australian medical teams and Saudi Arabian medical teams and that's a lot of incompetence you are identifying!

Maybe none of them can tell left from right of course

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It's clearly not a blatantly obvious injury given its been seven years, multiple medical professionals and Martin clearly very happily and successfully playing through most of those seven years and earning himself a multi million pound move and representing his country!

[Stubbsy90+2]

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It's clearly not a blatantly obvious injury given its been seven years, multiple medical professionals and Martin clearly very happily and successfully playing through most of those seven years and earning himself a multi million pound move and representing his country!

“If all they can spot is blatant injuries”.

Seeing as they didn’t spot this one then I’d say it’s quite clear I never called the ACL injury blatantly obvious.

Cool story though.

[Iain G]

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“If all they can spot is blatant injuries”.

Seeing as they didn’t spot this one then I’d say it’s quite clear I never called the ACL injury blatantly obvious.

Cool story though.

Ahh it's deflection tactics now huh 😁 is that you Boris? 🤣

[Jones28]

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“If all they can spot is blatant injuries”.

Seeing as they didn’t spot this one then I’d say it’s quite clear I never called the ACL injury blatantly obvious.

Cool story though.

I thought your point was valid initially but I think we’re on different pages after Boyle has said his piece on it.

[Stubbsy90+2]

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I thought your point was valid initially but I think we’re on different pages after Boyle has said his piece on it.

Regardless of the Boyle ACL incident there’s still far too many instances for it to be ‘rotten luck’ imo.

Even in the recent Boyle injury situation we’ve sent him off to the World Cup in the hope he’d play despite the fact he needed an operation. That’s not bad luck, it’s an injury that’s been poorly dealt with.

[Jones28]

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Regardless of the Boyle ACL incident there’s still far too many instances for it to be ‘rotten luck’ imo.

Even in the recent Boyle injury situation we’ve sent him off to the World Cup in the hope he’d play despite the fact he needed an operation. That’s not bad luck, it’s an injury that’s been poorly dealt with.

The reporting of players coming back is a forecast, not a guarantee. It can’t be helped if relapses occur.