We need to talk about England

[ScottB]

He’s peaked, 6 years is a long time, he seems to be clinging to approaches and players that have ‘served him well’ like Maguire etc.

On paper England have a pretty excellent group of players to choose from and some cracking youth coming through, they shouldn’t be getting relegated in the Nations League and anything other than a deep run in Qatar is a failure.

Too late to replace him, but would suspect he goes post tournament. They’ve missed the boat on Potter though so not clear who would get it next, certainly if they want to pick someone English.

[Allant1981]

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He'll step down after the world Cup, question is who will come in?

They have an abundance of talent at all the age groups, truly world class talent but for me they just never seem to play and gel as a team.

Having said that I was shocked to see they went with Walker, Dier and Maguire at the back. That's the one area of the pitch they seem to be struggling with going forward.

What players do you think they have that are truly world class? Kane, foden, not sure who else would make a squad of the worlds best players? Certainly not their keepers, don't think any of their defenders or midfielders would either, they get hyped up by the English media because they play in the english premier league

[MikeyS]

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What players do you think they have that are truly world class? Kane, foden, not sure who else would make a squad of the worlds best players? Certainly not their keepers, don't think any of their defenders or midfielders would either, they get hyped up by the English media because they play in the english premier league

Nailed it! The constant stream of pish from the English written press and guff like Talksport would have you believe they are full of world class talent. I'd argue that if you were to think of the top 5 players in each position across the world, only Kane and possibly Alexander Arnold would feature. No danger are guys like Grealish, Forden, Rice true world class talents for me.

[MWHIBBIES]

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Nailed it! The constant stream of pish from the English written press and guff like Talksport would have you believe they are full of world class talent. I'd argue that if you were to think of the top 5 players in each position across the world, only Kane and possibly Alexander Arnold would feature. No danger are guys like Grealish, Forden, Rice true world class talents for me.

Their squad is undoubtedly really good. James and walker have been far better than Trent this season. Saka, foden and Sancho are incredible talents, any country would want them.

There is no need to downplay their talent because their English. Top, top players.

[MikeyS]

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Their squad is undoubtedly really good. James and walker have been far better than Trent this season. Saka, foden and Sancho are incredible talents, any country would want them.

There is no need to downplay their talent because their English. Top, top players.

At no point did I suggest they aren't full or talented players but in my opinion they aren't world class players.

I know you like to think of yourself as an authority on all subjects but surely you don't think Saka, Foden and Sancho are in the top 5 in their positions? Foden and Saka dinnae even nail down a regular position for either club or country!

Very good footballers just not the world class ones the English press would have us all believe.

[MWHIBBIES]

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At no point did I suggest they aren't full or talented players but in my opinion they aren't world class players.

I know you like to think of yourself as an authority on all subjects but surely you don't think Saka, Foden and Sancho are in the top 5 in their positions? Foden and Saka dinnae even nail down a regular position for either club or country!

Very good footballers just not the world class ones the English press would have us all believe.

Difficult to argue if you think saka isn't a regular for Arsenal. He certainly is. Foden too.

Saka, Sancho and Foden are very young. They will all absolutely be among the top 5 in their positions in years to come.

You're acting like they've peaked and won't improve. They've got 10 years ahead.

England have a frightening young squad. Really impressive generation.

[RyeSloan]

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Difficult to argue if you think saka isn't a regular for Arsenal. He certainly is. Foden too.

Saka, Sancho and Foden are very young. They will all absolutely be among the top 5 in their positions in years to come.

You're acting like they've peaked and won't improve. They've got 10 years ahead.

England have a frightening young squad. Really impressive generation.

Indeed. Quite hard to take arguments that players playing for the likes of Man City, Liverpool or the like are actually just over hyped Englishmen.

Their young talent is impressive and you can add Bellingham to that list as well. There is certainly plenty of talent coming through for them to be a top international team for quite some time.

As for Southgate…I quite like the Jack Ross analogy. Has achieved results without ever looking like a thoroughbred team and despite relative success really didn’t deliver when required.

Their Euros run was impressive but on the flip side they were handed the easiest side of a play off tournament draw you are ever likely to see.

Baffling that he played Saka as left wing back last night and their overall performance looked flat as a pancake to me.

But a bit like the Euros they have landed a favourable draw on the WC groups so could easily make the quarter final stage without having to be good good. Not sure it will be enough to save Southgate when they crash out when faced with their first real test but we shall see…

[He's here!]

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At no point did I suggest they aren't full or talented players but in my opinion they aren't world class players.

I know you like to think of yourself as an authority on all subjects but surely you don't think Saka, Foden and Sancho are in the top 5 in their positions? Foden and Saka dinnae even nail down a regular position for either club or country!

Very good footballers just not the world class ones the English press would have us all believe.

If they're not as good as has been claimed then all the more credit to Southgate for what he's achieved with them.

[Allant1981]

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If they're not as good as has been claimed then all the more credit to Southgate for what he's achieved with them.

Don't think anyone has said they aren't good players but there was a suggestion they have world class players, they have a couple and even then would you drop lewandowski, mbappe, benzema etc for kane? Would you drop vinicius Jr for foden, probably not, Walker might make a defence but again that would be at a push imo. They get over hyped constantly

[Jdawg]

Declan Rice must be the most overrated player in world football 😂😂

[bingo70]

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Declan Rice must be the most overrated player in world football 😂😂

I used to think that.

Saw him play for West Ham against Chelsea last season though and he was outstanding. Since then I’ve watched him a bit closer and I think he’s a terrific player.

[B.H.F.C]

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I used to think that.

Saw him play for West Ham against Chelsea last season though and he was outstanding. Since then I’ve watched him a bit closer and I think he’s a terrific player.

I agree. Needs to move from West Ham. I think he’d be one of the top players in his position playing in one of the big teams with better players to pass the ball to.

[He's here!]

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Southgate isn't that great a manager. His record is nothing special at any level.

It was hard to really back that up when they reached the final of the Euros and I got grief for saying it but I stand by it. With a better manager they would have a trophy in the cabinet.

He's been in the job years and still seems to be scrambling about and tinkering trying to find a style and identity.

Nothing special? When did an England manager last lead their team to a semi-final and a final at successive major tournaments? More than half a century ago is the answer. Relative to England's overall tournament history it's an outstanding achievement. I think any other manager would have struggled to match that if put in charge of England. They've had plenty of bigger name managers down the years who haven't come close.

[B.H.F.C]

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Nothing special? When did an England manager last lead their team to a semi-final and a final at successive major tournaments? More than half a century ago is the answer. Relative to England's overall tournament history it's an outstanding achievement. I think any other manager would have struggled to match that if put in charge of England. They've had plenty of bigger name managers down the years who haven't come close.

Not with the draw (particularly in the World Cup) they wouldn’t. It was slightly more difficult in the Euros but they had home advantage and his negativity, as soon as they came up against a decent team, blew it for them.

IMO he under achieved with the the opportunities presented to him and his team.

[Pretty Boy]

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Nothing special? When did an England manager last lead their team to a semi-final and a final at successive major tournaments? More than half a century ago is the answer. Relative to England's overall tournament history it's an outstanding achievement. I think any other manager would have struggled to match that if put in charge of England. They've had plenty of bigger name managers down the years who haven't come close.

His record prior to getting the England gig wasn't the level of someone getting one of the biggest jobs in international football. He relegated Middlesbrough FFS.

In with the bricks at the FA, face fits kind of manager. With the squad they have and the youngsters coming through if England are bold with their next appointment they'll be serious contenders in 2024 & 2026. With Southgate in charge even when they are in the latter stages I've never truly believed they were going to win a tournament.

[Glory Lurker]

Is it possible that this is just another example of the big nations not really being that bothered about the Nations League? That’s a possible defence.

[ScottB]

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Is it possible that this is just another example of the big nations not really being that bothered about the Nations League? That’s a possible defence.

Maybe some don’t, but I doubt England can ever have that luxury with their media.

[B.H.F.C]

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Is it possible that this is just another example of the big nations not really being that bothered about the Nations League? That’s a possible defence.

Not for me. They’ve been abysmal whilst trying to get ready for a World Cup.

[jacomo]

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His record prior to getting the England gig wasn't the level of someone getting one of the biggest jobs in international football. He relegated Middlesbrough FFS.

In with the bricks at the FA, face fits kind of manager. With the squad they have and the youngsters coming through if England are bold with their next appointment they'll be serious contenders in 2024 & 2026. With Southgate in charge even when they are in the latter stages I've never truly believed they were going to win a tournament.

His record prior to the England job is largely irrelevant.

Arguably a different skill set required to boss an international side, it’s churlish to suggest he’s done anything other than an excellent job in that role.

[Lago]

England will make a decent fist of it at the world cup, too many good players not to.

[Since90+2]

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His record prior to getting the England gig wasn't the level of someone getting one of the biggest jobs in international football. He relegated Middlesbrough FFS.

In with the bricks at the FA, face fits kind of manager. With the squad they have and the youngsters coming through if England are bold with their next appointment they'll be serious contenders in 2024 & 2026. With Southgate in charge even when they are in the latter stages I've never truly believed they were going to win a tournament.

He's done better with England than any other manager, many of them having better records, in the last 2 decades.

[Keith_M]

I'd love Scotland to have the same potential pool of talent as England.

It's an incredible head start for any Manager, but also puts a lot of pressure on them as it means there's no excuses if they underperform.

[Keith_M]

Oh and one statistic in defence of Southgate.

Managed the first England team in 55 years to beat Germany in a 'knockout' game



.... though TBH, that sounds a bit more like a condemnation of previous teams/managers than anything else.

[The Modfather]

Think Southgate has done a good job creating a pathway from the U21s and integrating youth. He’s also got them to a final and a semi final, credit where it’s due. However with a a bit of context, the kind draws and home advantage, it’s maybe not as impressive as it sounds on paper, while still good achievements.

It seems he’s taken the team as far as he can and I think the parallels with Ross are fair. A good manager but he’s not got that little bit extra where he is the difference between them winning something or not. He will leave good foundations for the next man, unfortunately.

[worcesterhibby]

When Southgate first came in, he ditched a lot of old England stalwarts and brought in young fresh talent that he had worked with in the u21s. His mistake is his refusal to do the same now. Unlike a manager of the likes of Ferguson, he seems petrified of building a new team after 6 years of relative success and instead keeps picking underperforming favourites, who might have done it in the past, but seem devoid of confidence, enthusiasm and creativity now. McGuire is basically a great big confidence sucking ****** and his continued presence will be contributing to their demise..no surprise that UTD have started performing now that he’s no where near the first team.

if I was Newcastle I’d be worried, Eddie Howe is the obvious replacement…although I wouldn’t be all that surprised if they opted for Brendan Rogers who must be heading for the door at Leicester.

[MWHIBBIES]

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Think Southgate has done a good job creating a pathway from the U21s and integrating youth. He’s also got them to a final and a semi final, credit where it’s due. However with a a bit of context, the kind draws and home advantage, it’s maybe not as impressive as it sounds on paper, while still good achievements.

It seems he’s taken the team as far as he can and I think the parallels with Ross are fair. A good manager but he’s not got that little bit extra where he is the difference between them winning something or not. He will leave good foundations for the next man, unfortunately.

Southgate not to blame for not winning something. Should've won the 2018 semi but would've lost to a far better France side. Italy were the best side in 2021, no doubting that. Beat Spain and Belgium. England taking them to pens and then 3 kids missing is no shame. Really do not think Southgate is the reason they didn't win that final, him not having ''that little bit extra'' isn't why a team misses penalties.

[He's here!]

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His record prior to getting the England gig wasn't the level of someone getting one of the biggest jobs in international football. He relegated Middlesbrough FFS.

In with the bricks at the FA, face fits kind of manager. With the squad they have and the youngsters coming through if England are bold with their next appointment they'll be serious contenders in 2024 & 2026. With Southgate in charge even when they are in the latter stages I've never truly believed they were going to win a tournament.

Yep, he took Middlesbrough down but he had a couple of solid seasons before that (IIRC they beat Man City 8-0) and were just a point off the top of the Championship when he was sacked. His subsequent success with England also shows that it's not always a career-ending occurrence if a first managerial job doesn't go smoothly. Plenty of potentially good managers lost to the game who were perhaps thrown in too early.

[A Hi-Bee]

No need to talk about Engurland they have 10 times more people who can do that without any input from Hibs supporters.
I think that Southgate is a nice honest hard working chappie, but dont care what happens to him or his team.

[Since90+2]

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Southgate not to blame for not winning something. Should've won the 2018 semi but would've lost to a far better France side. Italy were the best side in 2021, no doubting that. Beat Spain and Belgium. England taking them to pens and then 3 kids missing is no shame. Really do not think Southgate is the reason they didn't win that final, him not having ''that little bit extra'' isn't why a team misses penalties.

Agree with most of this however if I remember correctly Southgate made two late substitutions, both of whom missed penalties, so he does shoulder some of the responsibility for that.

Of course we would never know if those who were taken off would have scored, we can only go on the evidence of what occurred and from that perspective Southgate got it wrong.

[MWHIBBIES]

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Agree with most of this however if I remember correctly Southgate made two late substitutions, both of whom missed penalties, so he does shoulder some of the responsibility for that.

Of course we would never know if those who were taken off would have scored, we can only go on the evidence of what occurred and from that perspective Southgate got it wrong.

If you've got 2 guys on the bench banging in penalties all week in training, and 2 guys on the pitch missing them all week, the logical choice is to make those subs. Nothing is going to work 100% of the time but its still the right call. I really struggle to blame the manager for that.