Taking the knee

[matty_f]

I think the craziest notion is that those that are apparently the ones virtue signalling are the ones who are brainwashed, when the mass media, the bots on social media, and even the UK government are pushing a massive “anti-woke” right wing agenda.

To reach a point where anti-racist people - activists even - are seen as the problem, where taking the knee is one massive Piers Morgan shaped problem that’s “rammed down our throats” and not the racism would be laughable absurd if it wasn’t so depressing.

[WhileTheChief..]

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Why is being actively anti racist virtue signalling?

If people are content to say 'I'm not racist' and go about their lives then fine. Why should someone be belittled, accused of being brainwashed or whatever else for wanting to do a bit more to raise awareness of and actively protest against an issue that is still prevalent in our society?

If people feel uncomfortable or worse if they are genuinely angered by a visible anti racism then that poses a whole load of questions imo.

You're not racist are you?

Do you feel the need to tell people this at every opportunity? Do you ever bring the subject of racism up purely so you can tell people how bad it is?

Being against racism is a good thing, of course it is.

Bumping your gums about it every 5 mins and complaining about people who don't feel so strongly about it as you is the issue.

[matty_f]

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You're not racist are you?

Do you feel the need to tell people this at every opportunity? Do you ever bring the subject of racism up purely so you can tell people how bad it is?

Being against racism is a good thing, of course it is.

Bumping your gums about it every 5 mins and complaining about people who don't feel so strongly about it as you is the issue.

Why is being anti-racist an issue, even voicing it frequently?

[WhileTheChief..]

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I think the craziest notion is that those that are apparently the ones virtue signalling are the ones who are brainwashed, when the mass media, the bots on social media, and even the UK government are pushing a massive “anti-woke” right wing agenda.

To reach a point where anti-racist people - activists even - are seen as the problem, where taking the knee is one massive Piers Morgan shaped problem that’s “rammed down our throats” and not the racism would be laughable absurd if it wasn’t so depressing.

I’ve already explained about the throat ramming. That was nothing to do with taking the knee.

[WhileTheChief..]

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Why is being anti-racist an issue, even voicing it frequently?

Ok maybe it’s not an issue but what are you trying to gain? You really think you’re raising awareness?

Just live your life in a decent way and treat people with respect.

[matty_f]

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Ok maybe it’s not an issue but what are you trying to gain? You really think you’re raising awareness?

Just live your life in a decent way and treat people with respect.

What do you think people are doing? Stopping folk on the street to say “Sorry to interrupt your day, I’m not a racist you know?”

People talk about it when it’s relevant to do so, to challenge an opinion out a statement, or a physical act, or to raise awareness of, or show support to anti-racism.

[Pretty Boy]

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You're not racist are you?

Do you feel the need to tell people this at every opportunity? Do you ever bring the subject of racism up purely so you can tell people how bad it is?

Being against racism is a good thing, of course it is.

Bumping your gums about it every 5 mins and complaining about people who don't feel so strongly about it as you is the issue.

I don't feel the need to tell people I'm not racist randomly.

I will however challenge racism when I see it. often in situations where previously I wouldn't have because of a sense of social awkwardness. As an example I was in a pub last week and someone in the group made an off hand remark about 'sweating like the proverbial n****r'. I felt I had to say something because not doing so is tacit approval and facilitates the behaviour. Of course it was awkward but it wasn't virtue signalling, it was standing up to something that is, by any reasonable standards, wrong. I also made it clear i wasn't amused with the other couple of people in the group who sat in silence whilst I spoke up.

Frankly I don't really understand people who don't feel strongly about racism. It's just so obviously wrong and motivated by ignorance.

[TAHibby]

These issues don't affect me so I would rather I didn't have to hear about them all the time. It makes me very uncomfortable at the mere thought that not everyone has it like I do. Stop ramming it down my throat, I don't want to have to think about it, it's not fair that you push these agendas on me and make me think about them

[Vault Boy]

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Ok maybe it’s not an issue but what are you trying to gain? You really think you’re raising awareness?

Just live your life in a decent way and treat people with respect.

This thread is about kneeling in football.

How is that disrespectful? Or pushy? It’s about the most passive and nondisruptive form of anti-racism activism that exists in the mainstream - yet a couple of folk are still on this thread voicing descent about ‘virtue signalling’.

Nothing is being pushed down anyones throat lol.

[CropleyWasGod]

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These issues don't affect me so I would rather I didn't have to hear about them all the time. It makes me very uncomfortable at the mere thought that not everyone has it like I do. Stop ramming it down my throat, I don't want to have to think about it, it's not fair that you push these agendas on me and make me think about them

🙂

[hibby rae]

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Ok I'm not talking about taking the knee here, I was responding to your point about virtue signalling in general.

I'm happy to accept that you aren't racist. I'd hope you can extend me the same courtesy.

This next bit is not directed at you..

Virtue signalling, in my mind, is when people try to put their views on to me at every opportunity.( i've watered this down a bit this from ramming down throats to try and avoid causing offence!).

Putting a poster in your bedroom window saying Black Lives Matter for example. This serves zero purpose other than to show people how good you think you are. It does nothing to raise awareness of anything. Hence, virtue signalling.

Going by another poster's response, anyone who doesn't have a Black Lives Matter poster in their window is part of the problem!! I don't, and will never, accept that line of thought.

I'm not a sensitive, woke, snowflake so I rarely take offence at anything. I've never once come close to saying people taking the knee offends me. No idea where you got that from?

From your perspective, but you and I both have quite privileged perspectives in society, so it's important to listen, understand, an acknowledge the perspective of those who historically and currently experience discrimination. If a person who has been a victim of racism saw it it might, for a tiny moment, let them know that others support them.

When I said being part of the problem, we all know the adage about not saying anything. Not recognising the issues, but instead complaining about those those acknowledge them etc. Falling for the whole nonsense about woke and culture wars, instead of recognising the actual issues that can affect those in society and not the illusory ones.

Silence can be complicity, it's a sad fact of life.

[WhileTheChief..]

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I don't feel the need to tell people I'm not racist randomly.

I will however challenge racism when I see it. often in situations where previously I wouldn't have because of a sense of social awkwardness. As an example I was in a pub last week and someone in the group made an off hand remark about 'sweating like the proverbial n****r'. I felt I had to say something because not doing so is tacit approval and facilitates the behaviour. Of course it was awkward but it wasn't virtue signalling, it was standing up to something that is, by any reasonable standards, wrong. I also made it clear i wasn't amused with the other couple of people in the group who sat in silence whilst I spoke up.

Frankly I don't really understand people who don't feel strongly about racism. It's just so obviously wrong and motivated by ignorance.

I agree with every word here.

I’m going to add to it though!!

If, and I’m not saying you would or do do this, but IF you told that same story every week on here, and wrote to the EEN about it, and talked about it every time we got together in the pub, then you’re virtue signalling!!

That’s the only thing I’ve “got an issue” with.

If you don’t do these things then we’re in full agreement.

[Brightside]

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These issues don't affect me so I would rather I didn't have to hear about them all the time. It makes me very uncomfortable at the mere thought that not everyone has it like I do. Stop ramming it down my throat, I don't want to have to think about it, it's not fair that you push these agendas on me and make me think about them

Well as long as you are ok. Its not fair?

[JeMeSouviens]

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Well as long as you are ok. Its not fair?

Not sure if you've been whooshed or I've been double whooshed at this point?

[hibby rae]

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I agree with every word here.

I’m going to add to it though!!

If, and I’m not saying you would or do do this, but IF you told that same story every week on here, and wrote to the EEN about it, and talked about it every time we got together in the pub, then you’re virtue signalling!!

That’s the only thing I’ve “got an issue” with.

If you don’t do these things then we’re in full agreement.

I don't think anyone does those that.

So you only seem to have an issue with a hypothetical situation?

[RIP]

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Putting a poster in your bedroom window saying Black Lives Matter for example. This serves zero purpose other than to show people how good you think you are. It does nothing to raise awareness of anything. Hence, virtue signalling. Going by another poster's response, anyone who doesn't have a Black Lives Matter poster in their window is part of the problem!! I don't, and will never, accept that line of thought.

We get it. You're not impressed by people putting a BLM poster up in their window. Are you aware that if you live near Easter Road, putting a poster in your window can actually put your family at risk? https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...window-2938716

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I'm not a sensitive, woke, snowflake so I rarely take offence at anything.

For somebody who claims not to take offence easily you seem to have no difficulty reeling off the favourite insults for liberals adopted by right-wing conservatives, Trump fans, Katie Hopkins and EDL-types. How very open-minded.

[bigwheel]

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Ok I'm not talking about taking the knee here, I was responding to your point about virtue signalling in general.

I'm happy to accept that you aren't racist. I'd hope you can extend me the same courtesy.

This next bit is not directed at you..

Virtue signalling, in my mind, is when people try to put their views on to me at every opportunity.( i've watered this down a bit this from ramming down throats to try and avoid causing offence!).

Putting a poster in your bedroom window saying Black Lives Matter for example. This serves zero purpose other than to show people how good you think you are. It does nothing to raise awareness of anything. Hence, virtue signalling.

Going by another poster's response, anyone who doesn't have a Black Lives Matter poster in their window is part of the problem!! I don't, and will never, accept that line of thought.

I'm not a sensitive, woke, snowflake so I rarely take offence at anything. I've never once come close to saying people taking the knee offends me. No idea where you got that from?

It’s interesting your window poster point . And I say that as someone who has never done this …but I see this as brave . Being so public about one’s support for equality can provoke a response against your views . I don’t see it as a “look at how good I am” at all

[WhileTheChief..]

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We get it. You're not impressed by people putting a BLM poster up in their window. Are you aware that if you live near Easter Road, putting a poster in your window can actually put your family at risk? https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...window-2938716



For somebody who claims not to take offence easily you seem to have no difficulty reeling off the favourite insults for liberals adopted by right-wing conservatives, Trump fans, Katie Hopkins and EDL-types. How very open-minded.

I'm not aware of insulting anyone, but if I have, sorry.

[jacomo]

I had a Black Lives Matter poster in the front window of my house for about a month last year.

It was a hand drawn design by my 13 yr old daughter, who’d been learning about the civil rights movement at school and inspired to show her support. Of course her world view is a bit naive - she’s barely a teenager - but I’m proud of her for showing a wider interest in the world and happy to support her.

Of course I now realise my mistake. I should have put the poster straight in the bin and lectured her about ‘ramming her opinions down peoples throats’.

[WhileTheChief..]

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I had a Black Lives Matter poster in the front window of my house for about a month last year.

It was a hand drawn design by my 13 yr old daughter, who’d been learning about the civil rights movement at school and inspired to show her support. Of course her world view is a bit naive - she’s barely a teenager - but I’m proud of her for showing a wider interest in the world and happy to support her.

Of course I now realise my mistake. I should have put the poster straight in the bin and lectured her about ‘ramming her opinions down peoples throats’.

Aw c’mon, you know fine well you did the right thing, why include that last sentence?

Nobody is taking issue with school kids doing school project stuff!!!

[WeeRussell]

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Aw c’mon, you know fine well you did the right thing, why include that last sentence?

Nobody is taking issue with school kids doing school project stuff!!!

Cool. What is the age limit before these things serve no purpose and become pure virtue signalling?

There’s a lass up the road of me and she’s of driving age, and not sure whether I should continue approving of the BLM sign she’s got in her window or not?

I find it quite encouraging to see younger members of society making an effort and speaking out where others have failed before.

[Hibbyradge]

If it annoys racists, it should be done at every opportunity.

[jacomo]

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Aw c’mon, you know fine well you did the right thing, why include that last sentence?

Nobody is taking issue with school kids doing school project stuff!!!

There are of course ‘virtue signallers’ in life - or, rather, people who say or do something primarily to boost their perceived status - but to dismiss everyone who supports a particular cause as such is disrespectful imo.

As a kid, I remember neighbours who made a big show of going to church every Sunday… the virtue signallers of their time. It doesn’t follow that everyone or indeed the majority of people who went to church were self-promoting pricks though.

[hibby rae]

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There are of course ‘virtue signallers’ in life - or, rather, people who say or do something primarily to boost their perceived status - but to dismiss everyone who supports a particular cause as such is disrespectful imo.

As a kid, I remember neighbours who made a big show of going to church every Sunday… the virtue signallers of their time. It doesn’t follow that everyone or indeed the majority of people who went to church were self-promoting pricks though.

A good example from recent times is all the Tories etc. whi stood applauding key workers during lockdown. However, when it comes to meaningfully supporting them they go the opposite way and attack them as greedy etc.

The irony of this is they, and their followers, are the ones who complain the most about virtue signalling.

[WhileTheChief..]

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There are of course ‘virtue signallers’ in life - or, rather, people who say or do something primarily to boost their perceived status - but to dismiss everyone who supports a particular cause as such is disrespectful imo.

As a kid, I remember neighbours who made a big show of going to church every Sunday… the virtue signallers of their time. It doesn’t follow that everyone or indeed the majority of people who went to church were self-promoting pricks though.

All fair points and fairly made.

Taken on board

[Kato]

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If it annoys racists, it should be done at every opportunity.

The only way to turn a racist into a non-racist is education. So every opportunity for me as well, but not "going on" about every 5 minutes helps, that would just be crazy as no one does that.

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[hibsbollah]

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The only way to turn a racist into a non-racist is education. So every opportunity for me as well, but not "going on" about every 5 minutes helps, that would just be crazy as no one does that.

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Let’s be completely honest here. The proliferation of the term ‘virtue signalling’ is just a device to get anti racists to shut up. If you’re opposed to racism and are active about it (like the examples of the BLM poster in the daughters bedroom or the challenging of the N word in the pub), and you’re accused of VSing, you have a choice. You can argue the toss about whether it’s a good idea to not be a racist until you’re blue in the face, or you can accept the whole thing is meaningless and not a genuine attempt to engage. Ive started to prefer the latter strategy. We all know what’s really going in.

[WhileTheChief..]

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Let’s be completely honest here. The proliferation of the term ‘virtue signalling’ is just a device to get anti racists to shut up. If you’re opposed to racism and are active about it (like the examples of the BLM poster in the daughters bedroom or the challenging of the N word in the pub), and you’re accused of VSing, you have a choice. You can argue the toss about whether it’s a good idea to not be a racist until you’re blue in the face, or you can accept the whole thing is meaningless and not a genuine attempt to engage. Ive started to prefer the latter strategy. We all know what’s really going in.

I don't think we do.There's 'nothing going on'. If there is, tell us so we can look out for it.

I'm guessing you mean anyone that talks about the issue of virtue signalling is just using that as an excuse or something to be racist?

Just come out and say it if that's what you think.

For my part, i don't feel strongly enough about the subject. That makes me part of the problem apparently. I'd say i'm the same as the vast majority of the population. A normal, decent person that treats others with respect irrespective of race or religion or anything else.

Nobody is saying 'anti-racists' should shut up either. Or not that i've seen on here.

And absolutely nobody has ever tried to argue that not being a racist is a good idea. You literally made that up. Why? It serves no purpose.

[nonshinyfinish]

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And absolutely nobody has ever tried to argue that not being a racist is a good idea.

You might need to re-read that one.

[jacomo]

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All fair points and fairly made.

Taken on board

Peace and love mate.