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  1. #1

    'Scottish cricket institutionally racist'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-62277613


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  3. #2
    resident moaning git DaveF's Avatar
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    Report out on Monday.

    I see quotes from Majid Haq in that article where he says you have to perform twice as good as a white person to get the same opportunities. He played 209 times for Scotland.

  4. #3
    resident moaning git DaveF's Avatar
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    Listening to Aamer Anwar on sky, he's already found everyone from the selection committee to umpires, guilty. He essentially wants everyone out and the 2 claimants put in place to give cricket those diverse role models.
    Last edited by DaveF; 24-07-2022 at 11:18 AM.

  5. #4
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveF View Post
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    Listening to Aamer Anwar on sky, he's already found everyone from the selection committee to umpires, guilty. He essentially wants everyone out and the 2 claimants put in place to give cricket those diverse role models.
    Iím assuming he has actually seen the report. The resignation of the entire board suggests itís going to make for pretty uncomfortable reading. A chance to put things right now though.
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  6. #5
    resident moaning git DaveF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    Iím assuming he has actually seen the report. The resignation of the entire board suggests itís going to make for pretty uncomfortable reading. A chance to put things right now though.
    Nope. He was busy accusing everyone (as I said above) blaming them for faceless resignatio s and then went onto say he hadn't seen it.

    As you say it's bound to be bad but Anwar loves his moment on the telly and he got it then.

  7. #6
    The Cricket Scotland board have all resigned.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-62283600

  8. #7
    @hibs.net private member Stonewall's Avatar
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    No-one has seen the report yet but the interested parties have been briefed on the generalities.

    I believe that some of the findings are pretty toe curling but that the individual clubs come out of it a lot more positively than regional and international issues. Cricket Scotland tend to be responsible for regional and representative sides whereas almost all the leagues are administered by separate associations.

    The issues are apparently worse in the west than the east.

    The reasons for the mass resignation is more to do with the politics of the situation and the feasibility of the recovery plan out of being in special measures in terms of timescales and the resources that need to be allocated to the process.

    I may post more later if people are interested.
    Last edited by Stonewall; 24-07-2022 at 07:55 PM.

  9. #8
    resident moaning git DaveF's Avatar
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    Please do. Be good to get your input as and when you can 👍

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    @hibs.net private member Stonewall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveF View Post
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    Please do. Be good to get your input as and when you can 👍
    Will do although I might have to read the report now.

  11. #10
    @hibs.net private member Stonewall's Avatar
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    I did have some input to the report in that my club was one of the 30 who gave evidence on camera and myself and the club president volunteered to do this. I have no direct connection to the Cricket Scotland board but I am a friend of one of the board members.

    With regard to the resignation of the board, Cricket Scotland (CS) were put into special measures and in order to emerge from this a number of Mandated Actions were imposed and timescales set. For example they would have to employ a full time HR manager and a full time Disciplinary Officer. It was felt that for an organisation employing 30 people overseeing an amateur game these were at most part time positions. Cricket Scotlandís finances are inevitably precarious and the budget would have had to be adjusted to the detriment of the development functions of CS.

    The board felt that they were being asked to carry out the measures in unrealistic timescales and it was obvious to them that they were being set up to fail and that they were not trusted to deliver.

    it is fair to say that CS were expecting the outcome to be damming but acknowledged that the need for the enquiry was long overdue and I believe were genuinely committed to addressing the issues. For the purposes of context the CS board is made up of a mixture of paid employees and unpaid representatives of the clubs. The CS president is unpaid and has been in post for 3 months so is hardly tainted.

    My own interview really was more to do with our clubís experiences of playing with and against Asian (and other ethnic minorities). What we did to ensure our club was an integrated and a welcoming environment. We were quite open about what we thought, how we deal with issues as they arise and how we thought matters could be improved (neutral umpires at all games, increased representation on club and association committees, and better communication). We were asked our opinion of CS but in truth we have little contact with them.

    My friend had talked to Sport Scotland and they had been surprisingly supportive of CS acknowledging that if they scratched below the surface of most other sports they might well find similar issues.

    I think Cricket though is in a slightly unique position where I would guess 50% or so of participants are of Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Indian, Shri Lankan and Afghanistani backgrounds. There are now very few all white clubs and a number which are all Asian. When I started playing in the late 70s there were very few from those backgrounds. There have been huge changes in the game in that time and unfortunately the administration of the game has not kept pace with these changes.

  12. #11
    resident moaning git DaveF's Avatar
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    Thanks for this.

    Your last sentence can be applied to any, if not most sports I'd suggest.

  13. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Stonewall View Post
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    I did have some input to the report in that my club was one of the 30 who gave evidence on camera and myself and the club president volunteered to do this. I have no direct connection to the Cricket Scotland board but I am a friend of one of the board members.

    With regard to the resignation of the board, Cricket Scotland (CS) were put into special measures and in order to emerge from this a number of Mandated Actions were imposed and timescales set. For example they would have to employ a full time HR manager and a full time Disciplinary Officer. It was felt that for an organisation employing 30 people overseeing an amateur game these were at most part time positions. Cricket Scotlandís finances are inevitably precarious and the budget would have had to be adjusted to the detriment of the development functions of CS.

    The board felt that they were being asked to carry out the measures in unrealistic timescales and it was obvious to them that they were being set up to fail and that they were not trusted to deliver.

    it is fair to say that CS were expecting the outcome to be damming but acknowledged that the need for the enquiry was long overdue and I believe were genuinely committed to addressing the issues. For the purposes of context the CS board is made up of a mixture of paid employees and unpaid representatives of the clubs. The CS president is unpaid and has been in post for 3 months so is hardly tainted.

    My own interview really was more to do with our clubís experiences of playing with and against Asian (and other ethnic minorities). What we did to ensure our club was an integrated and a welcoming environment. We were quite open about what we thought, how we deal with issues as they arise and how we thought matters could be improved (neutral umpires at all games, increased representation on club and association committees, and better communication). We were asked our opinion of CS but in truth we have little contact with them.

    My friend had talked to Sport Scotland and they had been surprisingly supportive of CS acknowledging that if they scratched below the surface of most other sports they might well find similar issues.

    I think Cricket though is in a slightly unique position where I would guess 50% or so of participants are of Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Indian, Shri Lankan and Afghanistani backgrounds. There are now very few all white clubs and a number which are all Asian. When I started playing in the late 70s there were very few from those backgrounds. There have been huge changes in the game in that time and unfortunately the administration of the game has not kept pace with these changes.
    Interesting points and I imagine there's a lot of truth in the acknowledgement that cricket in Scotland is far from the only sport affected by this issue.

    It is surprising, however, that (as you say) cricket has failed to keep pace with the fact that half the players now turning out for clubs are non-white. I don't know what the overall number of regular cricketers in Scotland is (I've always imagined it's a tricky game for those with families to commit to bearing in mind that if you play a couple of fixtures at the weekend that's basically your whole Saturday and Sunday gone) but I'm guessing it's not huge? On that basis any discrimination against those who are (I'm guessing) the most enthusiastic participants seems plain crazy, especially as Scotland strives to earn a meaningful foothold in the world game.

  14. #13
    @hibs.net private member Stonewall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by He's here! View Post
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    Interesting points and I imagine there's a lot of truth in the acknowledgement that cricket in Scotland is far from the only sport affected by this issue.

    It is surprising, however, that (as you say) cricket has failed to keep pace with the fact that half the players now turning out for clubs are non-white. I don't know what the overall number of regular cricketers in Scotland is (I've always imagined it's a tricky game for those with families to commit to bearing in mind that if you play a couple of fixtures at the weekend that's basically your whole Saturday and Sunday gone) but I'm guessing it's not huge? On that basis any discrimination against those who are (I'm guessing) the most enthusiastic participants seems plain crazy, especially as Scotland strives to earn a meaningful foothold in the world game.
    Iím not totally sure of the figures but I think thereís about 80 clubs affiliated to Cricket Scotland and a bunch of others playing friendlies or mid-week competitions. These range from clubs putting out one side to the bigger clubs who field 4 league sides and have big junior sections. Very few people play more than once at a weekend and it can put pressure on relationships.

    itís a minority sport which like many struggles to compete against football. Governance is a problem even in professional sports (football) never mind amateur sports where people are giving up their time to play and run their clubs. The focus Is very much on getting teams organised, running the junior section, preparing grounds and fundraising, fixing the leak in the clubhouse roof etc. CS could have the best disciplinary system in the world but if itís not administered properly.

    Not excusing what has gone on just giving context from the clubs point of view.

    In terms of our place in the world game you have to give young players a route to play at the highest level they can and potentially puts the in the window to get professional contracts down south.

    Also the level of funding CS receive is dependent on the performance of the national side which dictates in turn how much development work can be done.

  15. #14
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Every gimmick hungry yob,
    Digging gold from rock and roll
    Grabs the mic to tell us,
    He'll die before he's sold.

  16. #15
    Western District specifically identified in the report as requiring special measures in addition to Cricket Scotland. Institutional racism identified in Scottish cricket with it failing on 29 out of the 31 MacPherson principles for institutional racism.

    Reports of favouring private school pupils over state school pupils from ethnic backgrounds- the two main demographic groups for interest in the game in Scotland

  17. #16
    @hibs.net private member Hibs Class's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveF View Post
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    Report out on Monday.

    I see quotes from Majid Haq in that article where he says you have to perform twice as good as a white person to get the same opportunities. He played 209 times for Scotland.
    Well done to him for speaking up. Cannot have been easy but looks like the report confirms his concerns. Really damning of the board including those who stepped down 2-3 months ago, I'm sure in the knowledge of how the report would turn out. Knowing who the leadership was made up of. I'm not surprised in the slightest at the bias towards public schools.
    ​#PERSEVERED


  18. #17
    @hibs.net private member Stonewall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LewysGot2 View Post
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    Western District specifically identified in the report as requiring special measures in addition to Cricket Scotland. Institutional racism identified in Scottish cricket with it failing on 29 out of the 31 MacPherson principles for institutional racism.

    Reports of favouring private school pupils over state school pupils from ethnic backgrounds- the two main demographic groups for interest in the game in Scotland
    Thereís someone sitting in the next room to me who would argue quite persuasively that itís not just state school pupils from ethnic backgrounds who donít get a fair crack of the whip.

  19. #18
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stonewall View Post
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    Thereís someone sitting in the next room to me who would argue quite persuasively that itís not just state school pupils from ethnic backgrounds who donít get a fair crack of the whip.
    The bias towards privately educated kids at representative level definitely appeared to exist a few years ago. And that will include a disproportionately large number of kids from ethnic backgrounds so though I hadnít thought of it as racist before it probably is.
    Every gimmick hungry yob,
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  20. #19
    Don't think only cricket is seeing a prevalence of privately educated participants at particular levels. Other sports, too, where theres similar phenomenon.

    Interestingly, Freddie Flintoff has a documentary out at the moment where he tries to address similar circumstances in English cricket.

    Elitism is not good. Elitism and racism is a double whammy.

  21. #20
    @hibs.net private member Stonewall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    The bias towards privately educated kids at representative level definitely appeared to exist a few years ago. And that will include a disproportionately large number of kids from ethnic backgrounds so though I hadnít thought of it as racist before it probably is.
    What actually constitutes racist behaviour is an interesting discussion in itself and it can be easy to cause offence out of ignorance or thoughtlessness.

    The sheer number of offences though is shocking although I think it worth saying that there is an element of it working both ways and antisemitic comments from Asians in all Asian teams towards Asians in mixed teams are unfortunately pretty common and will have been recorded in these figures I think.

    I played in the West for a good few years and there were times it was like world war 3. The East and Northern regions are positively Oasisís of calm in comparison.

    Not so many private schoolboys playing in the west though.

  22. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Stonewall View Post
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    Iím not totally sure of the figures but I think thereís about 80 clubs affiliated to Cricket Scotland and a bunch of others playing friendlies or mid-week competitions. These range from clubs putting out one side to the bigger clubs who field 4 league sides and have big junior sections. Very few people play more than once at a weekend and it can put pressure on relationships.

    itís a minority sport which like many struggles to compete against football. Governance is a problem even in professional sports (football) never mind amateur sports where people are giving up their time to play and run their clubs. The focus Is very much on getting teams organised, running the junior section, preparing grounds and fundraising, fixing the leak in the clubhouse roof etc. CS could have the best disciplinary system in the world but if itís not administered properly.

    Not excusing what has gone on just giving context from the clubs point of view.

    In terms of our place in the world game you have to give young players a route to play at the highest level they can and potentially puts the in the window to get professional contracts down south.

    Also the level of funding CS receive is dependent on the performance of the national side which dictates in turn how much development work can be done.
    I think cricket has a greater potential than most minority sports in Scotland to be more popular here in terms of being a bigger spectator draw in the summer months. It can be a great game.

  23. #22
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/62361282

    Guessing this is related to the headline issue?

  24. #23
    @hibs.net private member Stonewall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by He's here! View Post
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    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/62361282

    Guessing this is related to the headline issue?
    i donít know but suspect youíre right.

    Played for Falkirk btw.

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