What If (Coronation Cup)

[DanishJohn]

Have been watching on TV and reading in papers everything regarding the Queen's Platinum Jubilee and the celebrations.

Wouldn't it be great if the British Football authorities could be persuaded to reprise the Coronation Cup from 1953.
Rerun it in it's original format with the top four |(and biggest clubs in Scotland) Celtic, Rangers, Hibs and Aberdeen going head to head with England's original entrants Manchester United, Newcastle United, Arsenal and Tottenham Hotspur.

I wonder how the Hibees would do.

On a footnote to that story, my auld man followed the Hibs in their great days (Famous Five) and as the years went by two little things used to niggle him.

Hibs should have won the Coronation Cup . After hammering Newcastle Utd (who many thought were the best team in England) 4-0 We then go and lose the final to a very mediocre Celtic team.

The European Cup came 3 years too late for Hibs. He was convinced The Hibs 1952 team would have beaten the great Real Madrid.

Only opinions though!

[Mick O'Rourke]

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Have been watching on TV and reading in papers everything regarding the Queen's Platinum Jubilee and the celebrations.

Wouldn't it be great if the British Football authorities could be persuaded to reprise the Coronation Cup from 1953.
Rerun it in it's original format with the top four |(and biggest clubs in Scotland) Celtic, Rangers, Hibs and Aberdeen going head to head with England's original entrants Manchester United, Newcastle United, Arsenal and Tottenham Hotspur.

I wonder how the Hibees would do.

On a footnote to that story, my auld man followed the Hibs in their great days (Famous Five) and as the years went by two little things used to niggle him.

Hibs should have won the Coronation Cup . After hammering Newcastle Utd (who many thought were the best team in England) 4-0 We then go and lose the final to a very mediocre Celtic team.

The European Cup came 3 years too late for Hibs. He was convinced The Hibs 1952 team would have beaten the great Real Madrid.

Only opinions though!

My grandad, Jimmy Devlin his son Jimmy and all my other older Flynn cousins/uncles from the Market.West Port at that time drowned sorrows in their beers at not winning the Coronation Cup.
Likewise ,as you say,the European Cup came a few seasons too late for us.
We certainly would have been top challengers for it.
It cannot be emphasised enough how good Hibs were in those post war years.
Ask the top English teams we hammered...and the Brazilians we taught !!

Matt Busby thought we were the team to emulate in those days during and after WW2
Our managers too ,Willie Mc Cartney and Hugh Shaw must have had more to them than their photos we see with them in their homburg hats and big overcoats !
They knew the game ! They knew the game!
Dont you wish to have seen their teams in full flight !

Glory! Glory!

[One Day Soon]

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Have been watching on TV and reading in papers everything regarding the Queen's Platinum Jubilee and the celebrations.

Wouldn't it be great if the British Football authorities could be persuaded to reprise the Coronation Cup from 1953.
Rerun it in it's original format with the top four |(and biggest clubs in Scotland) Celtic, Rangers, Hibs and Aberdeen going head to head with England's original entrants Manchester United, Newcastle United, Arsenal and Tottenham Hotspur.

I wonder how the Hibees would do.

On a footnote to that story, my auld man followed the Hibs in their great days (Famous Five) and as the years went by two little things used to niggle him.

Hibs should have won the Coronation Cup . After hammering Newcastle Utd (who many thought were the best team in England) 4-0 We then go and lose the final to a very mediocre Celtic team.

The European Cup came 3 years too late for Hibs. He was convinced The Hibs 1952 team would have beaten the great Real Madrid.

Only opinions though!

Like. A lot. Except if it was top four today we wouldn’t get in!

[brog]

The Celtic keeper, Johnny Bonnar was very erratic, was always in and out the team. Unfortunately he had the game of his life in The Coronation Final. We battered them for 90 minutes but couldn't score. John was known as Coronation Bonnar after that! I think his son went to Holy X.

[Edina Street]

If Dundee were capable of reaching the Semi-Final of the 1962-63 European Cup with a thirty-eight year old Gordon Smith, then Hibernian would have surely been capable of reaching the European Cup Final with a twenty-four to twenty-eight year old Gordon Smith.
https://www.worldfootball.net/report...e-fc-ac-milan/

[Kato]

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The Celtic keeper, Johnny Bonnar was very erratic, was always in and out the team. Unfortunately he had the game of his life in The Coronation Final. We battered them for 90 minutes but couldn't score. John was known as Coronation Bonnar after that! I think his son went to Holy X.

Was going to post similar. If you read the contemporary match reports it describes wave after wave of Hibs attacks and corner after corner but Celtc had a pretty solid defensive set-up in those days and they held out.

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[Keith_M]

I've read the argument a few times about the European Cup and how Hibs would have won it if it had been a bit earlier, during their heyday.

The logical (and obviously heretical) counter to that argument is that they played in multiple Cup competitions when they were in their peak... and didn't win any of them either.

My dad said it's the one disappointment he has of watching the great team of that era, that he didn't get to see them lift the League or Scottish Cup.

[DanishJohn]

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I've read the argument a few times about the European Cup and how Hibs would have won it if it had been a bit earlier, during their heyday.

The logical (and obviously heretical) counter to that argument is that they played in multiple Cup competitions when they were in their peak... and didn't win any of them either.

My dad said it's the one disappointment he has of watching the great team of that era, that he didn't get to see them lift the League or Scottish Cup.

Could also be argued though, that whilst Hibs were playing in domestic competitions they were probably playing against a lot of thuggery and brute force (think how Airdrie used to stop us back in the late 80s/early 90s. A good football team at times over 90 mins could be stopped.

The European Cup was a celebration of football. I doubt if in the early years whilst they were showcasing the tournament the kicking would have been tolerated.
They wanted the beautiful game played the beautiful way and shown that way to all the football peoples of Europe and beyond.

[Bridge hibs]

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My grandad, Jimmy Devlin his son Jimmy and all my other older Flynn cousins/uncles from the Market.West Port at that time drowned sorrows in their beers at not winning the Coronation Cup.
Likewise ,as you say,the European Cup came a few seasons too late for us.
We certainly would have been top challengers for it.
It cannot be emphasised enough how good Hibs were in those post war years.
Ask the top English teams we hammered...and the Brazilians we taught !!

Matt Busby thought we were the team to emulate in those days during and after WW2
Our managers too ,Willie Mc Cartney and Hugh Shaw must have had more to them than their photos we see with them in their homburg hats and big overcoats !
They knew the game ! They knew the game!
Dont you wish to have seen their teams in full flight !

Glory! Glory!

Love your posts Mick, its kind of like buying a hibs book 70s onwards but the pages before then are blank, you are filling those pages up with your knowledge, brilliant and thanks 🇳🇬👍

[Jones28]

It would be a series of obliterations nowadays.

[Mick O'Rourke]

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Love your posts Mick, its kind of like buying a hibs book 70s onwards but the pages before then are blank, you are filling those pages up with your knowledge, brilliant and thanks ������

Thank you,Bridge hibs

Sometimes threads just prompt me,or jog the old memory banks.
No bad thing at my age,Keeps me and the old cells going.
This old Hibby sometimes recalls things thought long forgot,if you know what i mean!

[Mick O'Rourke]

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I've read the argument a few times about the European Cup and how Hibs would have won it if it had been a bit earlier, during their heyday.

The logical (and obviously heretical) counter to that argument is that they played in multiple Cup competitions when they were in their peak... and didn't win any of them either.

My dad said it's the one disappointment he has of watching the great team of that era, that he didn't get to see them lift the League or Scottish Cup.

Hibernian fans will forever wonder as to the why of it all.
That it took so long for major cup success.

But think on this ,had 1939/45 not disrupted the domestic game/leagues ..
Who knows what our Club may have achieved in those years lost to war?
Those players during that period,not just the Famous Five, were the top class footballers of their time,not just in Scotland.

[Edina Street]

I wonder what the Hibernian chants were back in the days of the 1953 Coronation Cup? I know Hibernian were most likely the originals to release the song "Glory Glory" in the late fifties, before it became copied by Tottenham Hotspur in 1961, then by Leeds United in 1968, then finally by Manchester United in 1994.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glory_...ootball_chant)

Not so sure about "Hail Hail". According to Wikipedia this was first sang by Celtic in 1961. Wikipedia even claims that this is "The Celtic Song".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Celtic_Song

Did Hibernian supporters sing "Glory Glory" on the terraces before the release of the record? Did Hibernian supporters sing "Hail Hail" prior to 1961?.

[ancient hibee]

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I wonder what the Hibernian chants were back in the days of the 1953 Coronation Cup? I know Hibernian were most likely the originals to release the song "Glory Glory" in the late fifties, before it became copied by Tottenham Hotspur in 1961, then by Leeds United in 1968, then finally by Manchester United in 1994.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glory_...ootball_chant)

Not so sure about "Hail Hail". According to Wikipedia this was first sang by Celtic in 1961. Wikipedia even claims that this is "The Celtic Song".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Celtic_Song

Did Hibernian supporters sing "Glory Glory" on the terraces before the release of the record? Did Hibernian supporters sing "Hail Hail" prior to 1961?.

Don't remember Hibs supporters singing anything in those days.

[BILLYHIBS]

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Don't remember Hibs supporters singing anything in those days.

A Gordon fur me, a Gordon fur me,

If your no a Gordon yir nae use tae me,

Willie Groves wiz braw,

Sandy McMahon an’ them ‘aw,

But the cocky wee Gordon

Is the pride o’ them ‘aw

[brog]

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I wonder what the Hibernian chants were back in the days of the 1953 Coronation Cup? I know Hibernian were most likely the originals to release the song "Glory Glory" in the late fifties, before it became copied by Tottenham Hotspur in 1961, then by Leeds United in 1968, then finally by Manchester United in 1994.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glory_...ootball_chant)

Not so sure about "Hail Hail". According to Wikipedia this was first sang by Celtic in 1961. Wikipedia even claims that this is "The Celtic Song".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Celtic_Song

Did Hibernian supporters sing "Glory Glory" on the terraces before the release of the record? Did Hibernian supporters sing "Hail Hail" prior to 1961?.

On that theme Celtic were so delighted about their Coronation success that there was a song written about it. It was several verses long and I can only remember bits of it. The final 2 lines though were; "Hibs met Celts in the final and lo and behold, all Hampden was covered in green, white and gold." The song celebrated the irony that in a special Coronation tourney, the final was contested by 2 teams with Irish heritage.

[ancient hibee]

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A Gordon fur me, a Gordon fur me,

If your no a Gordon yir nae use tae me,

Willie Groves wiz braw,

Sandy McMahon an’ them ‘aw,

But the cocky wee Gordon

Is the pride o’ them ‘aw

Forgot a Gordon for Me
That was sung as they carried him round the pitch when he broke his leg(or had it broken to be more accurate).

[Mick O'Rourke]

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On that theme Celtic were so delighted about their Coronation success that there was a song written about it. It was several verses long and I can only remember bits of it. The final 2 lines though were; "Hibs met Celts in the final and lo and behold, all Hampden was covered in green, white and gold." The song celebrated the irony that in a special Coronation tourney, the final was contested by 2 teams with Irish heritage.

Brian
I remember an old Celtic pal from The Blackie singing that song.

Over 117,000 piled into Hampden to see the
Battle of the Greens. 20th May 1953
Celtic and Hibs had reached the final.
Seeing off Rangers and the best that England could muster.

On Hibs songs when i was wee !
Mostly would hear variations of Irish folk and rebel songs.
A few one or two line chants to tunes of the day.
Like now with some songs/chants.

Ok
The Coronation Cup Song (Recited or to the tune:Hearts song)
Quite apt for this jubilee week !
Big Geordie is The Rangers 1872 captain,George Young.
The Queens consort in Scotland

Said Lizzie to Phillip as they sat down to dine,
I've just had a note from an old friend of mine,

His name is 'Big Geordie' he's loyal and true,
And his dirty big nose is a light shade of blue.

He says that the Rangers are right on their game,

And ask for a trophy to add to their fame,

I'll send up a cup that the Rangers can win,
Said Phillip to Liz watch the Celts don't step in.

Said Lizzie to Phillip they don't stand a chance,

I'll send up my Gunners to lead them a dance,

With Celtic defeated the way will be clear,

A cup for the Rangers in my crowning year.

But alas for their hopes for the loyal true blues,

The Celts beat the Gunners and Manchester too,

Beat Hibs in the final and oh what a scene,

Sure Hampden was covered in banners of green.

Said Lizzie to Phillip when she heard the grim news,

A blow has been struck at our loyal true blues,

Oh tell me dear Phillip and you ought to know,

How to keep Glasgow Celtic defeated below.

Said Phillip to Lizzie there's only one way,

I've known of their secret for many a day,

To keep the Celts down you will have to deport,

The whole Fenian army that gives them support

...................
Last two lines reads a bit like the Famine Song.
How things DONT change.

[brog]

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Brian
I remember an old Celtic pal from The Blackie singing that song.

Over 117,000 piled into Hampden to see the
Battle of the Greens. 20th May 1953
Celtic and Hibs had reached the final.
Seeing off Rangers and the best that England could muster.

On Hibs songs when i was wee !
Mostly would hear variations of Irish folk and rebel songs.
A few one or two line chants to tunes of the day.
Like now with some songs/chants.

Ok
The Coronation Cup Song (Recited or to the tune:Hearts song)
Quite apt for this jubilee week !
Big Geordie is The Rangers 1872 captain,George Young.
The Queens consort in Scotland

Said Lizzie to Phillip as they sat down to dine,
I've just had a note from an old friend of mine,

His name is 'Big Geordie' he's loyal and true,
And his dirty big nose is a light shade of blue.

He says that the Rangers are right on their game,

And ask for a trophy to add to their fame,

I'll send up a cup that the Rangers can win,
Said Phillip to Liz watch the Celts don't step in.

Said Lizzie to Phillip they don't stand a chance,

I'll send up my Gunners to lead them a dance,

With Celtic defeated the way will be clear,

A cup for the Rangers in my crowning year.

But alas for their hopes for the loyal true blues,

The Celts beat the Gunners and Manchester too,

Beat Hibs in the final and oh what a scene,

Sure Hampden was covered in banners of green.

Said Lizzie to Phillip when she heard the grim news,

A blow has been struck at our loyal true blues,

Oh tell me dear Phillip and you ought to know,

How to keep Glasgow Celtic defeated below.

Said Phillip to Lizzie there's only one way,

I've known of their secret for many a day,

To keep the Celts down you will have to deport,

The whole Fenian army that gives them support

...................
Last two lines reads a bit like the Famine Song.
How things DONT change.

Why am I not surprised you knew it all Michael! Excellent!

[Kato]

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I've read the argument a few times about the European Cup and how Hibs would have won it if it had been a bit earlier, during their heyday.

The logical (and obviously heretical) counter to that argument is that they played in multiple Cup competitions when they were in their peak... and didn't win any of them either.

My dad said it's the one disappointment he has of watching the great team of that era, that he didn't get to see them lift the League or Scottish Cup.

Has to be taken into account. Always slipped up in cup competitions.

A few goals here and there away from 5 titles in a row. We were pretty close in the two Rangers won.

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[Kato]

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It would be a series of obliterations nowadays.

So off the pace it's incredible.

When I was a nipper the Italians and Spanish were obviously top drawer but you still thought you could have a dash.

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[Kato]

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I wonder what the Hibernian chants were back in the days of the 1953 Coronation Cup? I know Hibernian were most likely the originals to release the song "Glory Glory" in the late fifties, before it became copied by Tottenham Hotspur in 1961, then by Leeds United in 1968, then finally by Manchester United in 1994.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glory_...ootball_chant)

Not so sure about "Hail Hail". According to Wikipedia this was first sang by Celtic in 1961. Wikipedia even claims that this is "The Celtic Song".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Celtic_Song

Did Hibernian supporters sing "Glory Glory" on the terraces before the release of the record? Did Hibernian supporters sing "Hail Hail" prior to 1961?.

Is it feasible that Celtc fans came up with anything first? Against the laws of the universe, no?

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[loanheadhibby]

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Have been watching on TV and reading in papers everything regarding the Queen's Platinum Jubilee and the celebrations.

Wouldn't it be great if the British Football authorities could be persuaded to reprise the Coronation Cup from 1953.
Rerun it in it's original format with the top four |(and biggest clubs in Scotland) Celtic, Rangers, Hibs and Aberdeen going head to head with England's original entrants Manchester United, Newcastle United, Arsenal and Tottenham Hotspur.

I wonder how the Hibees would do.

On a footnote to that story, my auld man followed the Hibs in their great days (Famous Five) and as the years went by two little things used to niggle him.

Hibs should have won the Coronation Cup . After hammering Newcastle Utd (who many thought were the best team in England) 4-0 We then go and lose the final to a very mediocre Celtic team.

The European Cup came 3 years too late for Hibs. He was convinced The Hibs 1952 team would have beaten the great Real Madrid.

Only opinions though!

At the risk of being negative I'm not so sure our current team would do very well.

[ano hibby]

Some great posts from the older contributors here, excellent reading, thanks for taking the time 👍

[Mick O'Rourke]

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At the risk of being negative I'm not so sure our current team would do very well.

You are not being negative,more pragmatic.

The thread has illustrated a time when Hibernian and Celtic in football terms did in their own way "Rule Brittania".......

Motherwell FC (in particular)and Dundee FC were powerful teams in that era also.
Elizabeth had assumed the responsibilities of the ruling monarch on February 6, 1952,when her dad died.

I was born the week before he died in the early hoors of Jan 27th 1952...A bonny baby ,too!!
So i was told Early riser,too ! burp!

Eastern General Hospital was the place i arrived and peaked out at the world!

.A Grassmarket boy born in a Leith Hospital.
Nae flies oan Mick

Hibernian Football Club won the Scottish League Division 1 in season 1951/52..
.by 4 pts.
Managed by the late great Hugh Shaw.
Average home gate at the Holy Ground that season ..30.700.

Motherwell won the Scottish Cup in season 1951/52 winning 5.0 v Dundee in front of 136.000.

Dundee won the Scottish League Cup in season 1951/52 winning 2.0 v Kilmarnock in front of 51.830.

In my birth year? 1952..... No Huns at Hampden Finals !!

It was a very good year !

**
Glory! Glory !
HGSP
SOL
0.7

[LancsHibs]

Goes to show the disparity between the game in England and Scotland and how far our game has slipped down the order. In 1953 Hibs would be as good as any club the English league had to offer in 2022 we would struggle to get out of league one.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Has to be taken into account. Always slipped up in cup competitions.

A few goals here and there away from 5 titles in a row. We were pretty close in the two Rangers won.

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The one we lost on goal average we'd have won under current goal difference rules. That would've been 3 in a row.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Goes to show the disparity between the game in England and Scotland and how far our game has slipped down the order. In 1953 Hibs would be as good as any club the English league had to offer in 2022 we would struggle to get out of league one.

Even as late as the 80s, Aberdeen beat Ipswich and Dundee United lost 5-4 on agg to Man U. Basically TV money has killed competition everywhere.

[MWHIBBIES]

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Even as late as the 80s, Aberdeen beat Ipswich and Dundee United lost 5-4 on agg to Man U. Basically TV money has killed competition everywhere.

They sold their game and took it up a level. We failed desperately to do so.

[JeMeSouviens]

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They sold their game and took it up a level. We failed desperately to do so.

They did but they killed competition in their own league as well. Look at all the teams that challenged for titles in the 70s and 80s: Derby, Villa, Forest, Ipswich, West Brom, QPR etc. Apart from the freak Leicester season, nobody is going to break the stranglehold of the top few clubs without dodgy oil wealth. Look at the Champions League, same teams year in year out. Football's nicely packaged but it's dying as a sport.