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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    Does anyone in favour of var think it will improve your match day experience? Iím very much a go to the game fan, I was there on Thursday and Iíll be there on Wednesday. Iím not trying to make it an Uber fan argument, but in my opinion var doesnít do anything for the fans that are in the stadium. What will happen is decisions will be changed and those of us sitting in the stadium will be clueless as to why itís happened and the fans watching on the tv will have to text us dafties that stupidly shelled out to go to the game.
    The refereeís usually make a signal as to why they have decided to change or award a decision. I think VAR is needed in this country. There are people who are not for it but I think the reality is we will see it introduced sooner rather than later, especially if we continue to have players, fans and clubs calling out officiating frequently.


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  3. #62
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesHFC View Post
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    The refereeís usually make a signal as to why they have decided to change or award a decision. I think VAR is needed in this country. There are people who are not for it but I think the reality is we will see it introduced sooner rather than later, especially if we continue to have players, fans and clubs calling out officiating frequently.
    Scotland as a country has always tried to copy what has gone on in England, but this our chance to market our game differently

    United we stand here....

  4. #63
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    I think it could turn fans away from attending games and unlike the premiership thereís not someone on a waiting list to take their place.
    No chance. VAR is far less intrusive than people think.

    In fact, it often adds something to the game. Each set of supporters have their hopes raised and either realised or dashed once the decision is made.

    That sense of injustice we feel when a referee or assistant made the wrong decision, possibly because they were unsighted or they just made a mistake, will be much less frequent.

    Goals wrongly chalked off because the striker was too quick for the assistant, will be reinstated. Off the ball stamps, slaps and punches will be punished immediately rather than in retrospect when the result has already been determined.

    It baffles me that all those benefits and more are on offer yet folk still don't want them. Why? Because we might have to wait a few seconds for the correct decision. Who said football fans are conservative (insert interrobang).

    VAR's not going to ruin football at all. It'll change it a little bit, but for the better.
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  5. #64
    @hibs.net private member greenlex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    No chance. VAR is far less intrusive than people think.

    In fact, it often adds something to the game. Each set of supporters have their hopes raised and either realised or dashed once the decision is made.

    That sense of injustice we feel when a referee or assistant made the wrong decision, possibly because they were unsighted or they just made a mistake, will be much less frequent.

    Goals wrongly chalked off because the striker was too quick for the assistant, will be reinstated. Off the ball stamps, slaps and punches will be punished immediately rather than in retrospect when the result has already been determined.

    It baffles me that all those benefits and more are on offer yet folk still don't want them. Why? Because we might have to wait a few seconds for the correct decision. Who said football fans are conservative (insert interrobang).

    VAR's not going to ruin football at all. It'll change it a little bit, but for the better.
    100% this.

  6. #65
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    Scotland as a country has always tried to copy what has gone on in England, but this our chance to market our game differently
    I can imagine the slogan.

    "Come to the SPFL. We don't do rules".
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  7. #66
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    For decades, folk have been screaming for referees to be more accountable. VAR will be a huge step towards that.

    Currently, the referee can make literally any decision they want and they NEVER have to justify it or change it. Very occasionally a ref will apologise for a bad decision but that's always after the fact and usually only when the "victim" was one of the uglies.

    Now, their decisions will be scrutinised immediately and it will be extremely difficult to stick to an obvious howler when it's been analysed by several TV cameras.

    Referees are unanimously in favour of introducing VAR. They want to make the correct decisions which, because they're human and it's a fast moving game, they're not always able to do. VAR will help them and help us.

  8. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    Does anyone in favour of var think it will improve your match day experience? Iím very much a go to the game fan, I was there on Thursday and Iíll be there on Wednesday. Iím not trying to make it an Uber fan argument, but in my opinion var doesnít do anything for the fans that are in the stadium. What will happen is decisions will be changed and those of us sitting in the stadium will be clueless as to why itís happened and the fans watching on the tv will have to text us dafties that stupidly shelled out to go to the game.
    Hibs scoring a perfectly good goal after 30 minutes would've considerably improved my night.

  9. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    Does anyone in favour of var think it will improve your match day experience? Iím very much a go to the game fan, I was there on Thursday and Iíll be there on Wednesday. Iím not trying to make it an Uber fan argument, but in my opinion var doesnít do anything for the fans that are in the stadium. What will happen is decisions will be changed and those of us sitting in the stadium will be clueless as to why itís happened and the fans watching on the tv will have to text us dafties that stupidly shelled out to go to the game.
    No it definitely wonít improve my match day experience and I agree with you entirely.

  10. #69
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeeRussell View Post
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    No it definitely wonít improve my match day experience and I agree with you entirely.
    Do you think the Cove game would have been better or worse if VAR was in operation?

    I guess if you like value for money then the lack of VAR gave us an extra 30 minutes of fairly crap and nervous football, otherwise we'd have won 2-0 in the 90 minutes.
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  11. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    Do you think the Cove game would have been better or worse if VAR was in operation?

    I guess if you like value for money then the lack of VAR gave us an extra 30 minutes of fairly crap and nervous football, otherwise we'd have won 2-0 in the 90 minutes.
    30 mins of fannying about looking at monitors and putting lines on screens instead while the fans donít know if itís worth celebrating a goal instead? No thanks.

    Fully aware you are completely in favour of VAR radge, we definitely wonít change each otherís minds.

    For me itís the main thing that separates football as a sport, that euphoria of a goal going in and the spontaneous celebration. Every goal in the English premier league now Iím waiting for them to question whether it counts.

    Itís crap (in my opinion).

  12. #71
    AFKA SuffolkHibee ChilliEater's Avatar
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    In theory I love the idea of VAR, but we've had it over here in Australia for 2 or 3 seasons now and I'm not sure it's improved anything. I'd keep it for offsides - it can seem a bit over the top to analyse and re-analyse footage and then allow or disallow a goal on a question of millimetres, but at least it is inarguable - there is a a line you can draw where offside begins and ends. The issue is on penalties and red cards - challenges often look worse in slow motion and I've often thought - even in games where my team isn't playing, or has benefitted in games they are playing - that the officials have got the decision wrong even after VAR.

  13. #72
    @hibs.net private member GordonHFC's Avatar
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    Does the Scottish version automatically come with the 'Penalty to Rangers' screen?

  14. #73
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeeRussell View Post
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    30 mins of fannying about looking at monitors and putting lines on screens instead while the fans donít know if itís worth celebrating a goal instead? No thanks.

    Fully aware you are completely in favour of VAR radge, we definitely wonít change each otherís minds.

    For me itís the main thing that separates football as a sport, that euphoria of a goal going in and the spontaneous celebration. Every goal in the English premier league now Iím waiting for them to question whether it counts.

    Itís crap (in my opinion).
    We won't change our minds but I find it astonishing that you'd prefer we had good goals disallowed rather than spend a few seconds checking the decision.

    We weren't allowed the euphoria of the goal going in or the spontaneous celebration because Doidge was wrongly ruled off side twice.

    But, until it's here and everyone takes it for granted, I'll remain astonished.
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  15. #74
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChilliEater View Post
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    In theory I love the idea of VAR, but we've had it over here in Australia for 2 or 3 seasons now and I'm not sure it's improved anything. I'd keep it for offsides - it can seem a bit over the top to analyse and re-analyse footage and then allow or disallow a goal on a question of millimetres, but at least it is inarguable - there is a a line you can draw where offside begins and ends. The issue is on penalties and red cards - challenges often look worse in slow motion and I've often thought - even in games where my team isn't playing, or has benefitted in games they are playing - that the officials have got the decision wrong even after VAR.
    I understand that. What about hand balls?
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  16. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    We won't change our minds but I find it astonishing that you'd prefer we had good goals disallowed rather than spend a few seconds checking the decision.

    We weren't allowed the euphoria of the goal going in or the spontaneous celebration because Doidge was wrongly ruled off side twice.

    But, until it's here and everyone takes it for granted, I'll remain astonished.
    It canít be that astonishing mate. I know youíve said most people you know in England are all for it, but the vast majority of football fans I know anywhere canít be ar*ed with it.

    It definitely splits opinion and certainly hasnít won over the vast majority since itís implementation almost 4 years ago.
    Last edited by WeeRussell; 23-01-2022 at 12:31 PM.

  17. #76
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeeRussell View Post
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    It canít be that astonishing mate.
    I genuinely am baffled that anyone would prefer risking a defeat than allow the ref a second look at a decision because of the potential of a spontaneous celebration that may never happen later in the game.
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  18. #77
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    I should add, that when I tell folk that we were denied a goal because of a bad decision, people here are incredulous that we don't have VAR.

    It's far more widely accepted than you think.
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  19. #78
    AFKA SuffolkHibee ChilliEater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    I understand that. What about hand balls?
    Again - because it's so open to opinion on what's an "unnatural" position, it's hard to get agreement on what the correct decision is. The Josh Doig one against Celtic, replays look like the Celtic player may have brought it down on his arm, and it may have hit Doig on the chest before it hit his arm, and his arm is not in a strange position, and it was clearly ball to hand and not hand to ball, but I doubt the decision would have been overturned. Celtic fans will be convinced it was penalty, we'd be convinced it wasn't, but if you try to view it neutrally, either giving it or disallowing it, either looks like an understandable decision.

    I've seen plenty of VAR decisions here that have left me shaking my head. It is no guarantee of getting the decision right. Having said all that, on balance I'm still in favour, just don't expect "bad" decisions to disappear. It would have improved our recent derby record though - Griffiths free kick, Shaw's and Forster's goals at Tynie would all have stood.

    Go to about 4min 40s on this and see what you think about the penalty decision ;-) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK9XlXdNc6Q
    Last edited by ChilliEater; 23-01-2022 at 12:57 PM.

  20. #79
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    [
    Go to about 4min 40s on this and see what you think about the penalty decision ;-) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK9XlXdNc6Q[/QUOTE]

    Unlike a clash of heads when both players hit each other, the defender's head hits the back of the striker's head as he was waiting for the ball to arrive.

    He didn't mean it, and he got hurt in the process, but is that not still a foul?

    I realise there are still be some controversial VAR decisions, but the obvious mistakes are more or less a thing of the past.

    Any consultant doing a decision "force field" will have the benefits of VAR far outweighing any negatives.
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  21. #80
    Another horrendous VAR decision in the Liverpool game with the player well offside in the lead up to the goal. Piss poor.

  22. #81
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibbysam View Post
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    Another horrendous VAR decision in the Liverpool game with the player well offside in the lead up to the goal. Piss poor.
    The goal would have been given without VAR so the argument is whether the referee was right that the player who jumped for the ball, but missed it, was offside.

    He would only be off if he "clearly attempted to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent". The referree thought not.

    It's not a VAR issue.
    Last edited by Hibbyradge; 23-01-2022 at 03:04 PM.

  23. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    The goal would have been given without VAR so the argument is whether the referee was right that the player who jumped for the ball, but missed it, was offside.

    He would only be off if he "clearly attempted to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent". The referree thought not.

    It's not a VAR issue.
    It never is a VAR issue. Itís clearly offside. He clearly makes a play for the ball, he clearly impacts the game as it leaves the space for the goalscorer. VAR is supposed to fix referee errors. Itís not done so yet again so itís pointless.

  24. #83
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibbysam View Post
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    It never is a VAR issue. Itís clearly offside. He clearly makes a play for the ball, he clearly impacts the game as it leaves the space for the goalscorer. VAR is supposed to fix referee errors. Itís not done so yet again so itís pointless.
    That's what I said. It's not a VAR issue.

    The referee doesn't think the player became active so he's not offside, but at least he had the chance to reconsider.

    We can have a different opinion to the referee, but it's his that counts.

    No VAR needed for Palace's goal.
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  25. #84
    You would hope that VAR would have given us the stonewaller penalty in the LC final.

  26. #85
    @hibs.net private member Callum_62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeeRussell View Post
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    30 mins of fannying about looking at monitors and putting lines on screens instead while the fans donít know if itís worth celebrating a goal instead? No thanks.

    Fully aware you are completely in favour of VAR radge, we definitely wonít change each otherís minds.

    For me itís the main thing that separates football as a sport, that euphoria of a goal going in and the spontaneous celebration. Every goal in the English premier league now Iím waiting for them to question whether it counts.

    Itís crap (in my opinion).
    Has there ever been a game of football that been stopped for 30mins on var checks?

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  27. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    That's what I said. It's not a VAR issue.

    The referee doesn't think the player became active so he's not offside, but at least he had the chance to reconsider.

    We can have a different opinion to the referee, but it's his that counts.

    No VAR needed for Palace's goal.
    The referee never had a chance to reconsider. It wasnít reviewed on the field. The VAR official decided not to. Itís his job to apply the laws of the game and the laws are clear that that was offside.

    Itís the exact thing (outwith the timing part) that Iíve a massive issue with. Debatable calls are never shown to the ref to consider, or discussed with him. Hence why thereís a 100% overturn stat when sent to the pitch side monitor. If people accept that VAR is to be in place then the games should effectively be re-refereeíd to allow the man in the middle to make his own decisions - not rely on a random guy in a video room to pick and choose when he gets involved leading to zero consistency.

  28. #87
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    I genuinely am baffled that anyone would prefer risking a defeat than allow the ref a second look at a decision because of the potential of a spontaneous celebration that may never happen later in the game.
    Youíre painting a very one sided argument where we will only benefit from decisions. Thereís going to be plenty times when we lose out as well, and when that happens the fans in the stadium are going to be really pissed off. A last minute winner in a derby match being ruled out for a foul in the build up wonít have everyone leaving the stadium praising var, theyíll be annoyed.

    United we stand here....

  29. #88
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    Youíre painting a very one sided argument where we will only benefit from decisions. Thereís going to be plenty times when we lose out as well, and when that happens the fans in the stadium are going to be really pissed off. A last minute winner in a derby match being ruled out for a foul in the build up wonít have everyone leaving the stadium praising var, theyíll be annoyed.
    I realise that there are negatives as well as positives and I've said so several times, but I've also said that the benefits clearly outweigh them.

    I can accept bad luck or a decision that disadvantages us if it's correct, but I abhor injustice and unfairness.

    If we lose out because of a correct VAR application, I'll be disappointed but not angry like I am when we're done by bad decisions.

    Anyway, it's coming in next season so we'll all have to hope that they've learned from the EPL experience and it's implemented as smoothly as possible.

    Yes, I realise that's another discussion altogether!
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  30. #89
    @hibs.net private member Alfred E Newman's Avatar
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    Another farcical VAR decision.

  31. #90
    Never a penalty thatís shocking

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