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  1. #61
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    He might have come good in the end but made a few critical mistakes.

    Loved a 451 that he just didnít have the players to play. Didnít understand the need to play in the front foot and attack weaker teams, especially at home. Made a mediocre midfield worse.

    Worth remembering how much Doidge struggled at the start under him - and picked up as soon as he had a strike partner.

    Hecky had a decent half season up to the summer then a minging start to his second season.

    I donít think heís that different to Jack Ross and given time he might well have picked up. He was never going to be given that time though and it was right that he went.

    Not sure he ďgotĒ Scottish football at all.
    I agree with most of that, but I think he just got lucky at the start. He didn't change anything but I think the team just got a collective boot up the erchie when Lennon was sacked/wasn't sacked.

    There was no point in his time at Hibs that I thought he was the real deal. That might be more about me than him, but I'm usually as defensive as f*** about Hibs players and managers and Heckingbottom was the first I had no time for.
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  3. #62
    @hibs.net private member jacomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    I agree with most of that, but I think he just got lucky at the start. He didn't change anything but I think the team just got a collective boot up the erchie when Lennon was sacked/wasn't sacked.

    There was no point in his time at Hibs that I thought he was the real deal. That might be more about me than him, but I'm usually as defensive as f*** about Hibs players and managers and Heckingbottom was the first I had no time for.

    I completely agree with you.

    Initial results were good but I wasnít at all convinced by him. His public comments about getting Ďbits and piecesí of information into the players came across as arrogant to me, as if here was this super coach come to show Scottish football how itís done.

    Then we had the calamitous summer transfer window, where he made a load of changes to the squad and left us horribly unbalanced. I remember the St Johnstone home game early that season which ended in a draw somehow despite us looking utterly clueless and lacking any kind of shape.

    He was the wrong appointment and the wrong fit for the club. No particular shame in that - it happens with players and coaches - but we needed to fix that mistake ASAP.

  4. #63
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    I think he didn't understand the game up here enough and respect the need to sign players who know the league rather than think English League one and Championship players will be good enough in this league.

    It just didn't work out for him, he seemed an ambitious and determined guy, he didn't upset anyone just had a poor run of results.

    Who knows, had he signed experienced SPFL Premiership players, he might still be here. Who knows.

  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
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    Neither of those 2 players was good enough. He was right to let both go.
    I disagree. But even if that were the case, letting that type of player go without having any kind of decent replacement to give a bit of proverbial 'steel' to the midfiel was criminal. He did it before Vela arrived/was fit (can't remember now). And as it turned out, Vela was a bit pish anyway.

  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Stanton View Post
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    I disagree. But even if that were the case, letting that type of player go without having any kind of decent replacement to give a bit of proverbial 'steel' to the midfiel was criminal. He did it before Vela arrived/was fit (can't remember now). And as it turned out, Vela was a bit pish anyway.
    Plus Bartley was immediately Livi's best player in their best season in the top league.

  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Stanton View Post
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    Plus Bartley was immediately Livi's best player in their best season in the top league.
    He hardly played for Hibs for about 18 months before he left Ö

    We were though, as you say, left high and dry when they both left and Ojo backed out on the move and went to Aberdeen. Hibs expected him to keep to the verbal agreement and let Milligan and Bartley go as a result .

  8. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Stanton View Post
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    I disagree. But even if that were the case, letting that type of player go without having any kind of decent replacement to give a bit of proverbial 'steel' to the midfiel was criminal. He did it before Vela arrived/was fit (can't remember now). And as it turned out, Vela was a bit pish anyway.
    His mistake was definitely not replacing them. But neither was good enough, that's for sure.

  9. #68
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
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    His mistake was definitely not replacing them. But neither was good enough, that's for sure.
    They were good enough to get us higher up the league than Hecky managed that yearÖ

    I actually rated both of those players. Certainly not up there with the McGinn, McGeouch, Fyvie midfield and Iíd say theyíre not as good as our current first choice 3 - but they were both first picks for that guff period between these 2 teams.

  10. #69
    @hibs.net private member The Modfather's Avatar
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    Does Heckimgbottom get a bit of an unfair deal in how he is viewed? Iíll caveat that I think he was probably the wrong man to appoint and it was probably right to part ways when we did.

    He seems to get the blame for that summers recruitment in not replacing Bartley or Milligan. Was he let down by the recruitment team in the same way Ross was? Should he be accorded some of the same mitigation for the struggles he faced with an imbalanced squad?

  11. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    They were good enough to get us higher up the league than Hecky managed that yearÖ

    I actually rated both of those players. Certainly not up there with the McGinn, McGeouch, Fyvie midfield and Iíd say theyíre not as good as our current first choice 3 - but they were both first picks for that guff period between these 2 teams.
    Marv was rarely a first pick for Hibs in the top flight, he didn't really contribute a whole lot in the season you are talking about. Id imagine Slivka played a lot more.

  12. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by The Modfather View Post
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    Does Heckimgbottom get a bit of an unfair deal in how he is viewed? Iíll caveat that I think he was probably the wrong man to appoint and it was probably right to part ways when we did.

    He seems to get the blame for that summers recruitment in not replacing Bartley or Milligan. Was he let down by the recruitment team in the same way Ross was? Should he be accorded some of the same mitigation for the struggles he faced with an imbalanced squad?
    Our recruitment strategy hasn't been good enough for some time now. Probably as far back as Lennon's last season. Hecky seemed to end up with half a dozen players plucked from down south all at once. Some came good after a settling in period and others were guff. In light of recent events i'm not sure i blame Hecky for that.

  13. #72
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
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    Marv was rarely a first pick for Hibs in the top flight, he didn't really contribute a whole lot in the season you are talking about. Id imagine Slivka played a lot more.
    Re Marv - yeah, I know. But he should have played more. I think he would have contributed more than the players who were getting a game ahead of him.

  14. #73
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Modfather View Post
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    Does Heckimgbottom get a bit of an unfair deal in how he is viewed? Iíll caveat that I think he was probably the wrong man to appoint and it was probably right to part ways when we did.

    He seems to get the blame for that summers recruitment in not replacing Bartley or Milligan. Was he let down by the recruitment team in the same way Ross was? Should he be accorded some of the same mitigation for the struggles he faced with an imbalanced squad?
    You make some fair points here and tbh there are certainly parallels between this season and Heckyís dodgy season.

  15. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    Same for me. He was terrible at Hibs. Players might have liked him, but he achieved the square root of F*** all and actually took us backwards.
    He got us out of the freefall that Lennon had left us in and overhauled the 11 point lead that Hearts had over us so that was a couple of achievements.

    Overall though he proved too stubborn to make changes that we all knew were needed - persisting with the lone striker etc. - so he paid the price.

  16. #75
    @hibs.net private member Kato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90274 View Post
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    That is actually pretty funny he's got that job whilst we are all squabbling over Jack Ross remaining in charge.
    "we are all"?

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  17. #76
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    He won 11 in 32 games and you ďdidnít mind himĒ yet are chasing Jack Ross out the door on a regular basis and seem to utterly detest him. The mind boggles.

    United we stand here....

  18. #77
    @hibs.net private member WhileTheChief..'s Avatar
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    We were simply a pay cheque to him.

    He didn't give a toss for Hibs. He knew he would get 3 years' salary without even having to try.

    Was probably delighted when he got sacked as he got back down south with the cash sooner than expected.

  19. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhileTheChief.. View Post
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    We were simply a pay cheque to him.

    He didn't give a toss for Hibs. He knew he would get 3 years' salary without even having to try.

    Was probably delighted when he got sacked as he got back down south with the cash sooner than expected.
    Something needs done with manager payoffs. They can literraly make hundreds of millions in payoffs - Jose Mourinho.

  20. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhileTheChief.. View Post
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    We were simply a pay cheque to him.

    He didn't give a toss for Hibs. He knew he would get 3 years' salary without even having to try.

    Was probably delighted when he got sacked as he got back down south with the cash sooner than expected.
    Ok..Iíll humour you - share any evidence that this tripe was, in anyway, true Ö.

  21. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by 90274 View Post
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    Something needs done with manager payoffs. They can literraly make hundreds of millions in payoffs - Jose Mourinho.
    Nothing needs to be done. Both parties agree a contract. You cant just go around sacking people for nothing. Quite right they are payed off.

    Mourinho has made hundreds of millions being an excellent football manager.

  22. #81
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
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    Nothing needs to be done. Both parties agree a contract. You cant just go around sacking people for nothing. Quite right they are payed off.

    Mourinho has made hundreds of millions being an excellent football manager.
    Yep.

    The sizes of the payoffs appear disproportionate at times but they are sums agreed to mitigate massive job insecurity in an industry that in some places is awash with cash.

    No manager wants to fail and whilst Iím sure a handsome payoff must be nice, I always think it must be quite damaging to the pride of a confident person to fail publicly.

  23. #82
    @hibs.net private member WhileTheChief..'s Avatar
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    There will have been plenty of managers out there that knew they would be out of their depth or that they couldn't do the job they're going for.

    That won't put them off applying for these jobs though.

    What did PH have to lose? He was out of work and all of a sudden he's guaranteed 3 years' salary whether successful or not.

    He took us for a ride and left with a hefty pay off no doubt.

  24. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhileTheChief.. View Post
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    There will have been plenty of managers out there that knew they would be out of their depth or that they couldn't do the job they're going for.

    That won't put them off applying for these jobs though.

    What did PH have to lose? He was out of work and all of a sudden he's guaranteed 3 years' salary whether successful or not.

    He took us for a ride and left with a hefty pay off no doubt.
    That is totally unfounded. He was a very well qualified coach. The club made him the offer and it didn't work out. Have you got any evidence he was knowingly out his depth. Pretty serious allegations on someone who seemed very professional and hard working to me and who is now in a comparable type of role, no doubt on more money too. I'm sure Heck would argue if he had been given more time he may well be doing what Jack Ross is now doing

  25. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhileTheChief.. View Post
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    There will have been plenty of managers out there that knew they would be out of their depth or that they couldn't do the job they're going for.

    That won't put them off applying for these jobs though.

    What did PH have to lose? He was out of work and all of a sudden he's guaranteed 3 years' salary whether successful or not.

    He took us for a ride and left with a hefty pay off no doubt.
    You obviously believe PH has no skills to be a head coach . Hibs and the players would hugely disagree . The Hibs board actually thought they had struck it lucky with PH. Felt they had recruited someone special . The players feel he was the best and most technical coach they had ever had . His level of detail is famed. Much more than anyone they had worked for before , and much more than JR is now .

    Heís clearly well thought of in the game . You donít get the coaching gig at Sheffield United without that.

    He needs to prove that he can get results with a team over a sustained period . So I can accept he is far from a proven head coach . But your narrative that he is useless, and knows that, and doesnít care about his performance - is so far away from reality that it is 100 percent baseless Ö

  26. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    He won 11 in 32 games and you ďdidnít mind himĒ yet are chasing Jack Ross out the door on a regular basis and seem to utterly detest him. The mind boggles.
    And now Paul Heckingbottom is managing at a higher level than Jack Ross ever has and has won in the Premier League. Crazy old game.

  27. #86
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhileTheChief.. View Post
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    There will have been plenty of managers out there that knew they would be out of their depth or that they couldn't do the job they're going for.

    That won't put them off applying for these jobs though.

    What did PH have to lose? He was out of work and all of a sudden he's guaranteed 3 years' salary whether successful or not.

    He took us for a ride and left with a hefty pay off no doubt.
    What is former England captain Terry Butcher up to these days?

    A failure at Hibs isn't something anyone wants on their CV.

    Heckingbottom was a highly thought of coach down South prior to coming to us. Was he really going to deliberately risk that reputation just to steal 3 years worth of a wage out of Hibs, wages probably inferior to those that a decent coach would be paid in England?

    He has done very well to win this opportunity so soon after being sacked by us tbh.

    It didn't work out for him here, I'm not questioning that but i think you're being really harsh on a guy who did his best.

    At worst he was probably guilty of a bit of hubris - thinking he'd come up here and piss it only to find it tougher than he expected.

  28. #87
    Got lucky at the start and a decent run - think the wheels started to come off in the split fixture

    Was confirmed in the league cup in his first full season - I think it was abroath away it was on telly, hibs looked absolutely hopeless. I remember thinking I hope this isnít a red flag.

    Newell was left wing. Couple of other players looked totally alien to Scottish football.

    Unsurprising things didnít get much better and the first game of the season an Allan winner in a very huff and puff game hung on for the win

    The next game was the big eye opener

    6-1 thumping at ibrox

    Inevitable and another Englishman came up thinking he could conquer the Scottish game.

    He will do well to last a year at Sheffield United

  29. #88
    @hibs.net private member cabbageandribs1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dmas View Post
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    nicknamed the PE Teacher by the fans cause players liked his coaching no?

    but i highlighted the part where you said the fans liked his coaching, they/we/i didn't....hence he got the bullet after just 16 games nothing to do with his nickname :)

  30. #89
    @hibs.net private member WhileTheChief..'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    What is former England captain Terry Butcher up to these days?

    A failure at Hibs isn't something anyone wants on their CV.

    Heckingbottom was a highly thought of coach down South prior to coming to us. Was he really going to deliberately risk that reputation just to steal 3 years worth of a wage out of Hibs, wages probably inferior to those that a decent coach would be paid in England?

    He has done very well to win this opportunity so soon after being sacked by us tbh.

    It didn't work out for him here, I'm not questioning that but i think you're being really harsh on a guy who did his best.

    At worst he was probably guilty of a bit of hubris - thinking he'd come up here and piss it only to find it tougher than he expected.
    Thatís probably a much fairer assessment than Iíd give him but I guess I agree with you.

    I just didnít take to him from his interview on day 1 and it never got any better.

    He just seemed completely uninterested, same as Calderwood.

    Compare that to Stubbs, Lennon or Ross. They all seemed genuinely delighted and privileged to be our boss. Thatís what I like to see.

    PH might have been a lovely bloke and a brilliant coach but he had no place applying for, or taking, the Hibs job.

    He was even quoted as saying he wasnít sure if he wanted to be a manager. Well, I want someone who will bust a gut to have our top job, not someone who just fells meh about it.

  31. #90
    You get manager and coaches that players like but who for whatever reason can't get a tune out the team on the park.

    A lot of Hibs players at the time loved Calderwoods training sessions. Hard work and varied. Same with Heckingbottom, the players enjoyed his training and praised his tactical knowledge and feedback using data provided. However neither could convert that to on field performance. In the case of the latter I always though the teams he set out looked overcoached. There was no room for self expression, everyone and everything seemed very rigid and formulaic.

    I'm interested to see how Heckingbottom does at Sheffield United. As a permanent manager he's only managed a win percentage above 30% once (ironically enough at Hibs) so I'm sceptical he will be a roaring success. Time will tell.
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