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  1. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by B.H.F.C View Post
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    We were 8th when he took over. There was improvement but not massive.
    He won more points than any other (non OF) team during that period I'm sure.

    We had won 2 games from our first 12 before he came in. He won 5 of his first 12 including a 3-0 vs Aberdeen and 2-0 at Tynecastle. Also got us to the Scottish Cup semi in that immediate period after taking over.

    You can't criticise him for a 7th placed finish when we were actually sitting 6th and steadily climbing the table before the season was cut short.


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  3. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post
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    He won more points than any other (non OF) team during that period I'm sure.

    We had won 2 games from our first 12 before he came in. He won 5 of his first 12 including a 3-0 vs Aberdeen and 2-0 at Tynecastle. Also got us to the Scottish Cup semi in that immediate period after taking over.

    You can't criticise him for a 7th placed finish when we were actually sitting 6th and steadily climbing the table before the season was cut short.
    The 3-1 home defeat to Hearts was the pre-cursor to all his criticism and lack of big game credentials.

  4. #213
    Testimonial Due hibeedonald's Avatar
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    I feel JR hasn't got the team playing to their potential.

    We create very little chances, even in the games we do win.

    Individually, I think our players are good enough, they just don't sync together. So many passes last night into empty space where the passer thought a teammate would be.

    Discipline clearly poor as demonstrated last night.

    A couple more defeats and I would be ready for a change in management.

  5. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Mathie was responsible for identifying players and negotiating the transfers. No surprise he is no longer here. We were a mess in the summer which led to a few panic signings and a scattergun deadline day.

    Ross plays a part in the transfer process but thereís a reason he was making the same point in the press all summer. Something wasnít right.
    I'm certainly not having a pop but how were we in a mess in the summer? I kind of sit (blissfully) thinking we are a well run club, great fan base, semi healthy financial footing.

    I'd have thought having qualified to 2 semis and a cup final, we would have been in a decent position compared to others in the league. I appreciate every club has it's issues due to Covid situation but surely we were in a semi healthy position?

    I am not in the know in any shape or form but concerns me that us fans perceived the club to be in a mess.

    Granted, we had a very poor transfer window in the summer but I would hazard a guess that our transfer thread would suggest some fans were happy with our business and we had got it done nice and early.

  6. #215
    Testimonial Due The Harp Awakes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoomtownHibeys View Post
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    The form team?? Their last 6 games:

    Motherwell 2-1 RC
    Dundee U 1-0 RC
    RC 2-3 St Mirren
    RC 2-3 Livingston
    Dundee 0-5 RC
    Rangers 4-2 RC

    Some form that. Stunned indeed
    Indeed. If Ross County are a form team, then by that reckoning we should absolutely horse, out of form St Johnstone on Saturday

  7. #216
    @hibs.net private member J-C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Mathie was responsible for identifying players and negotiating the transfers. No surprise he is no longer here. We were a mess in the summer which led to a few panic signings and a scattergun deadline day.

    Ross plays a part in the transfer process but thereís a reason he was making the same point in the press all summer. Something wasnít right.
    We don't operate under a DOF system, Ross has a big say in who we sign. Players will be identified by scouts and Mathie, Ross will decide which ones he wants and Mathie was the one to get the deals done. It's been said previously but they expected Doig to leave and the monies would then bring in the players identified. Not selling Doig threw a spanner in the works and the rest as they say is history.

  8. #217
    @hibs.net private member bingo70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post
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    He won more points than any other (non OF) team during that period I'm sure.

    We had won 2 games from our first 12 before he came in. He won 5 of his first 12 including a 3-0 vs Aberdeen and 2-0 at Tynecastle. Also got us to the Scottish Cup semi in that immediate period after taking over.

    You can't criticise him for a 7th placed finish when we were actually sitting 6th and steadily climbing the table before the season was cut short.
    Just to clarify, when mentioning in the first season we finished 7th that genuinely wasnít meant as a criticism. He did a decent job in his first season and got shafted by the points per game model that didnít take into account fixtures still to come.

    I was just pointing out that he hasnít delivered consistently high league finishes like BK was praising him for.

  9. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by J-C View Post
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    Does anyone else think that forgetting about poor recruitment, that starting 11 should still be good enough to win comfortably last night, even having that bench the players in general are hugely underperforming. Gogic was a regular, Wright got a good few minutes off the bench and Allan hasn't been given any time at all. One of the main problems is Nisbet's general lack of form, he just looks like he can't be arsed.
    This is where Iím at. People keep blaming Mathie like itís all his fault. The players here should be good enough to provide more days like Sunday and far less days like last night. But Jack Ross isnít the man to get it out of them. He got the same criticism at Sunderland and we all know how that ended. The sooner the same happens here the better. Heís not the man to take us forward.

  10. #219
    @hibs.net private member superfurryhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loanheadhibby View Post
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    I'm certainly not having a pop but how were we in a mess in the summer? I kind of sit (blissfully) thinking we are a well run club, great fan base, semi healthy financial footing.

    I'd have thought having qualified to 2 semis and a cup final, we would have been in a decent position compared to others in the league. I appreciate every club has it's issues due to Covid situation but surely we were in a semi healthy position?

    I am not in the know in any shape or form but concerns me that us fans perceived the club to be in a mess.

    Granted, we had a very poor transfer window in the summer but I would hazard a guess that our transfer thread would suggest some fans were happy with our business and we had got it done nice and early.
    I wouldn't read too much into one fans opinion that the club was a mess this summer.

    In my view we had a tremendous base to build upon. A strong squad of players, access to a level of investment that meant we could compete with our nearest rivals. The future was looking green.

    Whatever the failings of the window, we should have enough to out perform the likes of Ross County. It's not just one game though, that's 5 in a row. It's looking like Sunday was a bit of freak and we are reverting back to the poor form that preceded it.

    Ross's coat is on a shaky peg, a loss at the weekend and he's gone.

  11. #220
    @hibs.net private member bingo70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC1875 View Post
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    This is where Iím at. People keep blaming Mathie like itís all his fault. The players here should be good enough to provide more days like Sunday and far less days like last night. But Jack Ross isnít the man to get it out of them. He got the same criticism at Sunderland and we all know how that ended. The sooner the same happens here the better. Heís not the man to take us forward.
    If itís all Mathies fault for what went wrong this summer should he not be getting a lot more credit for the recruitment that led us to 3rd in the league last year?

  12. #221
    @hibs.net private member bingo70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superfurryhibby View Post
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    I wouldn't read too much into one fans opinion that the club was a mess this summer.

    In my view we had a tremendous base to build upon. A strong squad of players, access to a level of investment that meant we could compete with our nearest rivals. The future was looking green.

    Whatever the failings of the window, we should have enough to out perform the likes of Ross County. It's not just one game though, that's 5 in a row. It's looking like Sunday was a bit of freak and we are reverting back to the poor form that preceded it.

    Ross's coat is on a shaky peg, a loss at the weekend and he's gone.
    Donít agree with your last sentence.

    His job is safe until the cup final at least, I genuinely think we could lose every game between now and then and he wonít get sacked.

    Once the cup final is out the road is when pressure will start to build of league form doesnít improve IMO.

  13. #222
    Pun Lovin' Criminal Northernhibee's Avatar
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    This is beginning to have the Hecky feeling to it now IMO. Players underperforming, discipline going and no sign of a reaction.


    Do you think your security can keep you in purity, you will not shake us off above or below. Scottish friction, Scottish fiction

  14. #223
    @hibs.net private member Diclonius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northernhibee View Post
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    This is beginning to have the Hecky feeling to it now IMO. Players underperforming, discipline going and no sign of a reaction.
    Apart from beating the Scottish champions 3-1 in a cup semi final.

  15. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diclonius View Post
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    Apart from beating the Scottish champions 3-1 in a cup semi final.
    It's a very small peg to hang your coat on, that, in the grand scheme of things.

    Five league losses in a row is terrible. Sunday reinforces the point that on a regular basis JR is way off getting the best out of this team.


    Do you think your security can keep you in purity, you will not shake us off above or below. Scottish friction, Scottish fiction

  16. #225
    @hibs.net private member Diclonius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northernhibee View Post
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    It's a very small peg to hang your coat on, that, in the grand scheme of things.

    Five league losses in a row is terrible. Sunday reinforces the point that on a regular basis JR is way off getting the best out of this team.
    Heckingbottom's equivalent fixture was a 5-2 defeat to Celtic. Sunday was a comprehensive win and last night was a narrow defeat. We are on the way out of this run of form.

  17. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Diclonius View Post
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    Apart from beating the Scottish champions 3-1 in a cup semi final.
    Itís a relevant point to make but as others have said, Sunday seems an exception to the norm sadly.

  18. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diclonius View Post
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    Heckingbottom's equivalent fixture was a 5-2 defeat to Celtic. Sunday was a comprehensive win and last night was a narrow defeat. We are on the way out of this run of form.
    We are on our way out of this run of form?

    We are missing two of our best attacking players for Saturday, then play Rangers and Motherwell at home.

    Apologies, but we look far from being out this run of form.

  19. #228
    Pun Lovin' Criminal Northernhibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diclonius View Post
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    Heckingbottom's equivalent fixture was a 5-2 defeat to Celtic. Sunday was a comprehensive win and last night was a narrow defeat. We are on the way out of this run of form.
    St Johnstone and Rangers coming up are two tough games. I can accept a 'narrow defeat' (I refute that btw, going by the second half 1-0 flattered us) against a team we expect to struggle against but not a team who were bottom of the league by four points and hadn't won at home in six months.

    I wish I shared your optimism and I did for some time before.


    Do you think your security can keep you in purity, you will not shake us off above or below. Scottish friction, Scottish fiction

  20. #229
    @hibs.net private member JimBHibees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neil7908 View Post
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    For those saying it's just a bad run and we'll come good, I'm curious to know at what point you'll start to doubt Ross? If we lose 8 in a row would that send alarm bells ringing?

    When does a bad run become free fall?
    Kind of depends the performances for me if we are playing awful with no sign of improvement and losing then big issue. If playing well but struggling to get win but genuinely unlucky then much more understanding.

  21. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by bingo70 View Post
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    Donít agree with your last sentence.

    His job is safe until the cup final at least, I genuinely think we could lose every game between now and then and he wonít get sacked.

    Once the cup final is out the road is when pressure will start to build of league form doesnít improve IMO.
    The club seem hugely invested in Ross. Not just in words but with the contract extension and the like.

    I really don't see him being forcibly removed anytime soon. Certainly not before January. Even then if we are well clear of relegation (and I really don't believe that is something we have to worry about) I wonder if they will take the approach of letting him steady the ship then not standing in his way is an offer materialises in the summer.

    Obviously if a 5 game slide becomes absolute freefall hands may be forced.
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  22. #231
    @hibs.net private member JimBHibees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazzling Doidge View Post
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    No, itís taken 5 defeats on the bounce in the league with the potential for it to get to 6/7/8. Thatís sackable form in any league.

    Sunday was an exception. Iíd be stunned if we took anything on Saturday.
    Nah not for me given other factors 3rd last season very good cup form etc. Way too reactionary imo.

  23. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Diclonius View Post
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    Apart from beating the Scottish champions 3-1 in a cup semi final.
    Or, the players got themselves up for a big Semi Final, then went right back to where they were in the next league game.

  24. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottB View Post
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    Or, the players got themselves up for a big Semi Final, then went right back to where they were in the next league game.
    Or only raise their game against Rangers?

  25. #234
    @hibs.net private member bingo70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northernhibee View Post
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    St Johnstone and Rangers coming up are two tough games. I can accept a 'narrow defeat' (I refute that btw, going by the second half 1-0 flattered us) against a team we expect to struggle against but not a team who were bottom of the league by four points and hadn't won at home in six months.

    I wish I shared your optimism and I did for some time before.
    FWIW I think weíll beat St Johnstone on Saturday.

    I donít think our firm will magically turn round after that but I just canít see us continuing to lose every week. St Johnstone not playing well just now and missing some big players as well.

  26. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Dazzling Doidge View Post
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    No, itís taken 5 defeats on the bounce in the league with the potential for it to get to 6/7/8. Thatís sackable form in any league.

    Sunday was an exception. Iíd be stunned if we took anything on Saturday.
    Break down those defeats though:

    Old Huns 1-2, game changed by dubious red card
    United 0-3, awful
    Sheep 0-1, huff puff powderpuff
    Celtc 1-3, blown away, but they will do that to lots of teams
    Ross C 0-1, played ok, made some chances, beaten by a fluke

    That's 1 awful, 2 mediocre and 2 we'd never get much from. On the back of 7 unbeaten before that and reaching a cup final with one of our most memorable wins in decades, to talk about "sackable" is beyond ridiculous.

  27. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Break down those defeats though:

    Old Huns 1-2, game changed by dubious red card
    United 0-3, awful
    Sheep 0-1, huff puff powderpuff
    Celtc 1-3, blown away, but they will do that to lots of teams
    Ross C 0-1, played ok, made some chances, beaten by a fluke

    That's 1 awful, 2 mediocre and 2 we'd never get much from. On the back of 7 unbeaten before that and reaching a cup final with one of our most memorable wins in decades, to talk about "sackable" is beyond ridiculous.

    Thatís modern football whether you like it or not and at the end of the day it is a results driven business.

  28. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post
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    He won more points than any other (non OF) team during that period I'm sure.

    We had won 2 games from our first 12 before he came in. He won 5 of his first 12 including a 3-0 vs Aberdeen and 2-0 at Tynecastle. Also got us to the Scottish Cup semi in that immediate period after taking over.

    You can't criticise him for a 7th placed finish when we were actually sitting 6th and steadily climbing the table before the season was cut short.
    Wasnít really criticising him. Just pointing out that we werenít 11th when he came in. Weíll never know where weíd have finished had the season been played to completion, would probably have been determined by that St Johnstone game. We werenít steadily climbing by the time the season was stopped though, hadnít won in three and the last two games we got pumped by Hearts and Aberdeen.

  29. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by JimBHibees View Post
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    Nah not for me given other factors 3rd last season very good cup form etc. Way too reactionary imo.
    Itís a results driven business. The cons are outweighing the pros for me.

  30. #239
    @hibs.net private member tamig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post
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    I think you're being a bit disingenuous there. We finished 7th in a shortened season and we were sitting 11th or so, when Ross took over?

    It's points per game that matter. If you look at his points per game since he's come in, we'd be 3rd behind Rangers and Celtic. Clearly this run of defeats will be diminishing that "success" but Jack Ross's win record can't be argued.
    Was just about to say exactly that. JR took us from relegation candidates to 6/7 - depending on your view - in his first curtailed season. His only full season he got us third.

  31. #240
    @hibs.net private member bingo70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Break down those defeats though:

    Old Huns 1-2, game changed by dubious red card
    United 0-3, awful
    Sheep 0-1, huff puff powderpuff
    Celtc 1-3, blown away, but they will do that to lots of teams
    Ross C 0-1, played ok, made some chances, beaten by a fluke

    That's 1 awful, 2 mediocre and 2 we'd never get much from. On the back of 7 unbeaten before that and reaching a cup final with one of our most memorable wins in decades, to talk about "sackable" is beyond ridiculous.
    I disagree with your assessment of the Celtic game, that was awful as well.

    I think the Aberdeen game we never even managed a shot on target? Aberdeen were on a terrible run at that time as well I think. That falls into the awful category for me as well.

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