Proper football club

[Keith_M]

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Is Gretna a proper football club?
Is Livingstone?

The latter definitely isn't, as it doesn't exist.


(at least that gives us the first criterion: must actually exist)

[Pretty Boy]

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Is Gretna a proper football club?
Is Livingstone?

Gretna definitely are.

Can date their history back to the 1890s, a period of inactivity then reformed locally in the 40s. Resurrected again as 2008 by their supporters trust after the Brooks Mileson ego trip. The fairytale stuff was all bollocks of course.

I'm not a fan of clubs moving about like franchises, hence my earlier comment about MK Dons and Livinsgton, but Livingston are a direct continuation of Ferranti Thistle and Meadowbank so have a comparable history to plenty other proper clubs.

[ABZHFC]

To me, a proper club means their fans are sound and get that the best part about the football is the day out itself, and not necessarily the result. They believe having an atmosphere at the games is important, and are able to take the piss out of themselves when things aren't going their way, rather than gnashing their teeth and demanding that they watch a successful product on the pitch.

For that reason, I'd say Birmingham City are one of the few proper clubs left in England

[Pagan Hibernia]

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To me, a proper club means their fans are sound and get that the best part about the football is the day out itself, and not necessarily the result. They believe having an atmosphere at the games is important, and are able to take the piss out of themselves when things aren't going their way, rather than gnashing their teeth and demanding that they watch a successful product on the pitch.

For that reason, I'd say Birmingham City are one of the few proper clubs left in England

you’ve probably ruled Hibs out with that criteria

[Fuzzywuzzy]

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In Scotland Queens Park are most definitely a 'proper club'. Undoubtedly one of the most important clubs in the entire history of football.

A club like East Fife also fall into the category of having been historically successful and central to their community. They have won the same number of major trophies as Motherwell and St Mirren and more than the likes of Partick thistle , Falkirk, Dunfermilne and St Johnstone.

The issue with trying to decide who is and isn't a proper club is there is a modernity bias. It's all a load of nonsense anyway. There are clubs i have a bit of a distaste for, Livingston and MK Dons spring to mind, but they are clubs that play football so they are 'proper' football clubs.

Boy on the radio this morning saying he hadn't missed a queens game since 1979. Was saying when he was a lad he went to a game at brechin and he was the only away fan there and they won 5-0 or something🤣

[The Veteran]

Nothing to see here, move along now.

[Lancs Harp]

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Gretna definitely are.

Can date their history back to the 1890s, a period of inactivity then reformed locally in the 40s. Resurrected again as 2008 by their supporters trust after the Brooks Mileson ego trip. The fairytale stuff was all bollocks of course.

I'm not a fan of clubs moving about like franchises, hence my earlier comment about MK Dons and Livinsgton, but Livingston are a direct continuation of Ferranti Thistle and Meadowbank so have a comparable history to plenty other proper clubs.

Didnt Gretna play in the English Northern Premier league in the 90s or maybe 80s and play in the FA Cup? Or was that a different club?

[LancashireHibby]

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Didnt Gretna play in the English Northern Premier league in the 90s or maybe 80s and play in the FA Cup? Or was that a different club?

Yes they did, they played Bolton in the FA Cup in 93/94

[stu in nottingham]

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They were founded in 1899 by English and Swiss industrialists as a football and cricket club, winning their first championship in 1901.

Source: page 10 of "calcio a history of Italian football" by John foot

So they are.

Herbert Kilpin a lace worker from Nottingham and son of a butcher is considered as the main founding father of AC Milan. He was invited to Italy by an Italian-Swiss merchant who had links to Herbert's place of work in Nottingham. He played in Torino for a couple of years moving to Milan and becoming the main founder and player-manager of the newly-formed Milan Foot-Ball and Cricket Club. He named them and chose their colours of red and black

Occasionally, Milanese come to visit Herbert's modest birthplace in Nottingham and the parks where he played football. Fans often celebrate their founder Herbert Kilpin by flying large flags in the crowd at the San Siro.

Recommend 'The Lord of Milan' both book and film. Quite an amazing story really.

[AngloHibs]

That article claims that Portsmouth isn't a proper club. He has clearly never been to a game at Portsmouth, as the whole place simply oozes football tradition.

The article is nonsense.

[LancashireHibby]

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That article claims that Portsmouth isn't a proper club. He has clearly never been to a game at Portsmouth, as the whole place simply oozes football tradition.

The article is nonsense.

I went to Portsmouth v Bolton last week, as it happens. Hard to put my finger on, but I wouldn't say it holds anything close to the aura of Easter Road. Great sausage rolls though.

[AngloHibs]

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I went to Portsmouth v Bolton last week, as it happens. Hard to put my finger on, but I wouldn't say it holds anything close to the aura of Easter Road. Great sausage rolls though.

Fair enough, it's all a matter of opinion. It's about 15 years since I was there, so my memory may be playing tricks on me or things may have changed.

I was struck by the boy in the sailor suit walking around the pitch with a "Play up Pompey" sign. It just felt really old-school and traditional, although I suppose there's some PC reason why it isn't allowed nowadays.

[marinello59]

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Fair enough, it's all a matter of opinion. It's about 15 years since I was there, so my memory may be playing tricks on me or things may have changed.

I was struck by the boy in the sailor suit walking around the pitch with a "Play up Pompey" sign. It just felt really old-school and traditional, although I suppose there's some PC reason why it isn't allowed nowadays.

Pompey are a brilliant club. I’ve got several family members who are regular attenders there. Their experience of following their club pretty much matches mine with Hibs.

[Smartie]

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Pompey are a brilliant club. I’ve got several family members who are regular attenders there. Their experience of following their club pretty much matches mine with Hibs.

Is Fratton Park not still quite quirky as well?

With most of the post Taylor Report big club grounds you feel like if you've been in one, you've been in them all.

I certainly couldn't argue that Easter Road isn't miles better than it used to be, but in terms of character and soul it's just not a patch on what it used to be.

Not sure what the point I'm trying to make it, but I always feel like a "proper" club has something unique and distinct about it. A lot of the biggest clubs lost all of that long ago.

[LancashireHibby]

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Fair enough, it's all a matter of opinion. It's about 15 years since I was there, so my memory may be playing tricks on me or things may have changed.

I was struck by the boy in the sailor suit walking around the pitch with a "Play up Pompey" sign. It just felt really old-school and traditional, although I suppose there's some PC reason why it isn't allowed nowadays.

Although not the chap you’re referring to, I actually met the chap with the wig and bell etc a couple of years ago. A very quiet and unassuming bloke in reality compared to his match day persona. He’d actually travelled up to Bolton for the funeral of a Wanderers fan (a friend of my partner and her family) who he’d known over the years which is probably a good indication of what a nice bloke he is.

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Is Fratton Park not still quite quirky as well?

With most of the post Taylor Report big club grounds you feel like if you've been in one, you've been in them all.

I certainly couldn't argue that Easter Road isn't miles better than it used to be, but in terms of character and soul it's just not a patch on what it used to be.

Not sure what the point I'm trying to make it, but I always feel like a "proper" club has something unique and distinct about it. A lot of the biggest clubs lost all of that long ago.

Yes very much an old school ground. The terracing in the away end was reprofiled in the away end when the seats were put in, but where I was stood right in the corner there was a part between the home and away ends where the old terracing was still there, virtually at a ratio of three terrace rows to one seated row - not hard to see why capacities reduced so dramatically!

Fair to say some of the pubs were more welcoming than others, but largely ok really.

I’ve been to something like 217 grounds (he says as if he doesn’t keep a record of these things…) and there are genuinely few places that compare to the sight of Easter Road slowly appearing in front of you as you walk down Albion Road. Similarly the view of ER from Calton Hill, the main reason I started following Hibs 25+ years ago!

[FromLeithtoNZ]

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I went to Portsmouth v Bolton last week, as it happens. Hard to put my finger on, but I wouldn't say it holds anything close to the aura of Easter Road. Great sausage rolls though.

Is John Westwood still attending matches with all the crazy gear on?

[LancashireHibby]

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Is John Westwood still attending matches with all the crazy gear on?

He is yeah. See post above for my own little story about him.

[Is It On....]

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what a load of pish

It's written by the clown (in my opinion) that was Theresa Mays spin doctor

[AltheHibby]

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To me, a proper club means their fans are sound and get that the best part about the football is the day out itself, and not necessarily the result. They believe having an atmosphere at the games is important, and are able to take the piss out of themselves when things aren't going their way, rather than gnashing their teeth and demanding that they watch a successful product on the pitch.

For that reason, I'd say Birmingham City are one of the few proper clubs left in England

Small Heath a proper club? Wash your mouth out!😆

There are only 2 proper teams in Birmingham: Villa and Villa ladies.

[heretoday]

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Pompey are a brilliant club. I’ve got several family members who are regular attenders there. Their experience of following their club pretty much matches mine with Hibs.

Correct. I went there with my dad about a million years ago and they lost (to Charlton) but the stand was a cacophony of noise. The chimes!

Portsmouth was a mental place in those days. I don't know what it's like now.

[Is It On....]

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This interesting article appeared in the Critic as to what makes a proper football club. Clearly subjective and this is written from an English perspective but history, passion, success, decent support, hard core, character etc etc. Man C don’t make it but Aston Villa do…

https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/november-2021/history-fans-noise-and-passion/

Who makes the cut in Scotland - clearly all the big 5 but I would say Dundee and not United. Probably Motherwell and perhaps St Mirrwnbut who are St Johnsotone?

Perhaps Dunfermline and some old school but down on their luck Clyde and of course Queens Park. Can’t think of many others really.

I would have thought you need at least 10yrs in existence to be a proper club..so that would exclude The Rangers 😂

[Pagan Hibernia]

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Is John Westwood still attending matches with all the crazy gear on?

is that the fella that changed his middle name to ‘Portsmouth Football Club’?

[Baader]

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is that the fella that changed his middle name to ‘Portsmouth Football Club’?

John Westwood yes. The fella with the wig and bell. Hes an antiquarian book seller away from his life as a Pompey fanatic.

[Iggy Pope]

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Yes they did, they played Bolton in the FA Cup in 93/94

I just read an account of that game on Facebook from a Bolton supporting punk rocker. Seems Gretna pushed them all the way although I can’t say I rember a thing about it.

[LancashireHibby]

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I just read an account of that game on Facebook from a Bolton supporting punk rocker. Seems Gretna pushed them all the way although I can’t say I rember a thing about it.

A season too early for me to remember really. Finished 3-2 to Bolton but Gretna were 2-1 up with ten minutes left until Owen Coyle scored twice. Gretna were drawn at home but switched in to Burnden Park as they saw it as more lucrative, something that hasn’t been allowed for a while now.

[Smartie]

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A season too early for me to remember really. Finished 3-2 to Bolton but Gretna were 2-1 up with ten minutes left until Owen Coyle scored twice. Gretna were drawn at home but switched in to Burnden Park as they saw it as more lucrative, something that hasn’t been allowed for a while now.

When was that relative to the time Bolton beat Liverpool at Anfield in the cup?

I seem to remember watching the highlights of that and had it in my mind that it was around the same time?

Funny the way football works - being pushed close by Gretna and winning at Anfield.

I remember Bolton playing some amazing stuff and all the commentators were gushing about how well they played.

[Pagan Hibernia]

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When was that relative to the time Bolton beat Liverpool at Anfield in the cup?

I seem to remember watching the highlights of that and had it in my mind that it was around the same time?

Funny the way football works - being pushed close by Gretna and winning at Anfield.

I remember Bolton playing some amazing stuff and all the commentators were gushing about how well they played.

bolton beat liverpool at anfield in the 92/93 season.

bolton/Gretna was 93/94

[JeMeSouviens]

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So a club that has reached the final of one European competition,the semi of another, and has beaten Barcelona home and away twice, isn't a "proper football club "?

😆

They did it all with Arab money.

[LancashireHibby]

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When was that relative to the time Bolton beat Liverpool at Anfield in the cup?

I seem to remember watching the highlights of that and had it in my mind that it was around the same time?

Funny the way football works - being pushed close by Gretna and winning at Anfield.

I remember Bolton playing some amazing stuff and all the commentators were gushing about how well they played.

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bolton beat liverpool at anfield in the 92/93 season.

bolton/Gretna was 93/94

As above, the Liverpool game was in 92/93 (also beat Wolves away in the next round who were the division above)

93/94 was a bit of an odd one, as although Bolton were in Division One, there were still 22 Premier League clubs so two of the three sides promoted from Division Two still had to enter the FA Cup in the First Round rather than the Third. The Gretna win was followed by a win at Lincoln and then the fun REALLY began. A 3-2 replay win away to Everton in the third round (including an Alan Stubbs goal), a 3-1 replay win at Arsenal (Andy Walker scoring the third) in the fourth round and a win at home to Aston Villa (Stubbs scoring the winner) in the fifth round before losing at home to Oldham (much better back then than they are now!) in the quarter final.

[EI255]

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I recently learned that AC Milan begun as a cricket club, so they're not a proper football club

Our friends across the city started as a blinkin dance group

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