Proper football club

[Islington Hibs]

This interesting article appeared in the Critic as to what makes a proper football club. Clearly subjective and this is written from an English perspective but history, passion, success, decent support, hard core, character etc etc. Man C don’t make it but Aston Villa do…

https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/november-2021/history-fans-noise-and-passion/

Who makes the cut in Scotland - clearly all the big 5 but I would say Dundee and not United. Probably Motherwell and perhaps St Mirrwnbut who are St Johnsotone?

Perhaps Dunfermline and some old school but down on their luck Clyde and of course Queens Park. Can’t think of many others really.

[Since90+2]

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This interesting article appeared in the Critic as to what makes a proper football club. Clearly subjective and this is written from an English perspective but history, passion, success, decent support, hard core, character etc etc. Man C don’t make it but Aston Villa do…

https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/november-2021/history-fans-noise-and-passion/

Who makes the cut in Scotland - clearly all the big 5 but I would say Dundee and not United. Probably Motherwell and perhaps St Mirrwnbut who are St Johnsotone?

Perhaps Dunfermline and some old school but down on their luck Clyde and of course Queens Park. Can’t think of many others really.

I don't really get what you are meaning. Dundee United are not a proper football club but Dundee are??

Every single football club is a proper club. That includes Man City who had some of the most loyal supporters throughout the 90s whilst their city neighbours dominated English football. What gives anyone the right to proclaim to those generations of City fans who's families have supported the team for decades that they don't support a "real" club?

I've heard people say Edinburgh isn't a footballing city (and they are probably correct when you look at our population relative to the 2 clubs attendances). Does that mean Hibs aren't a proper club? Of course not as it means the world to the people who follow the club.

There seems to be an almost inverted snobbery with football fans lower down the pecking order. I read it on here quite often that Liverpool, Man Utd ect are not real clubs. They are to the people who have supported them all of their lifes and I'm pretty sure they don't care what other supporters think.

[The dalmeny]

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6741580[/URL]]This interesting article appeared in the Critic as to what makes a proper football club. Clearly subjective and this is written from an English perspective but history, passion, success, decent support, hard core, character etc etc. Man C don’t make it but Aston Villa do…

https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/novem...e-and-passion/

Who makes the cut in Scotland - clearly all the big 5 but I would say Dundee and not United. Probably Motherwell and perhaps St Mirrwnbut who are St Johnsotone?

Perhaps Dunfermline and some old school but down on their luck Clyde and of course Queens Park. Can’t think of many others really.

what a load of pish

[007]

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This interesting article appeared in the Critic as to what makes a proper football club. Clearly subjective and this is written from an English perspective but history, passion, success, decent support, hard core, character etc etc. Man C don’t make it but Aston Villa do…

https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/november-2021/history-fans-noise-and-passion/

Who makes the cut in Scotland - clearly all the big 5 but I would say Dundee and not United. Probably Motherwell and perhaps St Mirrwnbut who are St Johnsotone?

Perhaps Dunfermline and some old school but down on their luck Clyde and of course Queens Park. Can’t think of many others really.

Link isn't working for me but it sounds like a Man Utd fan has come up with a convoluted way to have a dig at Man City.

[Kato]

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Link isn't working for me but it sounds like a Man Utd fan has come up with a convoluted way to have a dig at Man City.

Nah, it's a Villa fan with a dig at The Baggies.

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[CropleyWasGod]

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This interesting article appeared in the Critic as to what makes a proper football club. Clearly subjective and this is written from an English perspective but history, passion, success, decent support, hard core, character etc etc. Man C don’t make it but Aston Villa do…

https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/november-2021/history-fans-noise-and-passion/

Who makes the cut in Scotland - clearly all the big 5 but I would say Dundee and not United. Probably Motherwell and perhaps St Mirrwnbut who are St Johnsotone?

Perhaps Dunfermline and some old school but down on their luck Clyde and of course Queens Park. Can’t think of many others really.

So a club that has reached the final of one European competition,the semi of another, and has beaten Barcelona home and away twice, isn't a "proper football club "?

😆

[Just_Jimmy]

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I don't really get what you are meaning. Dundee United are not a proper football club but Dundee are??

Every single football club is a proper club. That includes Man City who had some of the most loyal supporters throughout the 90s whilst their city neighbours dominated English football. What gives anyone the right to proclaim to those generations of City fans who's families have supported the team for decades that they don't support a "real" club?

I've heard people say Edinburgh isn't a footballing city (and they are probably correct when you look at our population relative to the 2 clubs attendances). Does that mean Hibs aren't a proper club? Of course not as it means the world to the people who follow the club.

There seems to be an almost inverted snobbery with football fans lower down the pecking order. I read it on here quite often that Liverpool, Man Utd ect are not real clubs. They are to the people who have supported them all of their lifes and I'm pretty sure they don't care what other supporters think.

Good post. On this site it's as evident as many others. Manchester is Red and Blue and I have mates who support and grew up supporting one or the other and they're all mates except they rip each other about it relentlessly. I enjoy being in the middle cos I can stir the pot for greatest humour outcome.

They're all die hards, their families supported the club and the club is massive in their life.

Anyone who bangs on about Utd fans "coming from London" or No one supporting city until they got money has never been to Manchester and have no idea what these clubs mean to people.

What the clubs themselves stand for now is a different argument. They're all REAL clubs*.


*except Sevco.



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[Radge70]

I recently learned that AC Milan begun as a cricket club, so they're not a proper football club

[Wilson]

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I recently learned that AC Milan begun as a cricket club, so they're not a proper football club

Well they're damn sure not a proper cricket club!

[Orchard_Hibs]

I think there are more people on this thread that know proper Man City fans than there are Man City fans.

[Dr What If?]

I think there is a fair argument that the owners of some of these clubs don't know what a proper football club is, allegations of sportswashing on the back of the Newcastle takeover or the Tottenham owners 'legacy fans' comment seem to suggest that. Money has changed the people at the top and a fair few couldn't give a jot if their clubs played baseball or hockey, or were in London or Moscow, just as long as their own agendas are met.

One stat I would love to know is how many football fans in Edinburgh in 2021 would identify as Man Utd, Liverpool, etc. fans first and foremost. 20 years ago most football fans I knew would have had a favourite English side but would all identify with a Scottish team first (child of the 80s, far more Aberdeen fans than you would think)....that seems to have changed with kids and younger men today. These 'new' owners may not particularly care what constitutes the soul of a club but they haven't half brought a lot more glamour to the teams they bought.

[Since452]

Man City playing at Maine Road with 30k in the lower divisions while their city rivals were winning everything. They are most definitely a proper football club. Most of their fans had a lifetime of being in Man United's shadow to the point they weren't even considered their main rivals. Let them enjoy it.

[blackpoolhibs]

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I recently learned that AC Milan begun as a cricket club, so they're not a proper football club

Hearts should really play every Saturday night on strictly come dancing.

[James Stephen]

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Man City playing at Maine Road with 30k in the lower divisions while their city rivals were winning everything. They are most definitely a proper football club. Most of their fans had a lifetime of being in Man United's shadow to the point they weren't even considered their main rivals. Let them enjoy it.

This goes back way further too. I think im right in saying that Man City won the English title in 1968, only for United to trump them by winning the Euroean Cup a few weeks later!

What is a proper football club? Any club is a proper football club. Its just a stupid debate that fans of the money grabbing English clubs are using to try and make their avarice, more acceptable and justifiable than the other clubs' avarice.

It all just reveals how much top English clubs have left their fans behind, and how insecure those fans feel about it.

I mean how nauseating, not to mention stupid, was it to see Newcastle fans singing "weve got our club back" as it is bought by Saudi Arabia and some posh financiers. You can see why football is so attractive to those with bad intentions, football fans dont half make it easy for them.

[Since452]

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This goes back way further too. I think im right in saying that Man City won the English title in 1968, only for United to trump them by winning the Euroean Cup a few weeks later!

What is a proper football club? Any club is a proper football club. Its just a stupid debate that fans of the money grabbing English clubs are using to try and make their avarice, more acceptable and justifiable than the other clubs' avarice.

It all just reveals how much top English clubs have left their fans behind, and how insecure those fans feel about it.

I mean how nauseating, not to mention stupid, was it to see Newcastle fans singing "weve got our club back" as it is bought by Saudi Arabia and some posh financiers. You can see why football is so attractive to those with bad intentions, football fans dont half make it easy for them.

I often find myself yearning for the days when Saudi billionaires etc had no interest in football clubs. Probably looking through rose tinted glasses but just seemed more relatable back then.

[jacomo]

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Man City playing at Maine Road with 30k in the lower divisions while their city rivals were winning everything. They are most definitely a proper football club. Most of their fans had a lifetime of being in Man United's shadow to the point they weren't even considered their main rivals. Let them enjoy it.

They were. Now they are just a global sports franchise.

They’ve bought enormous success but at what cost? Man City isn’t the same club anymore imo.

[jacomo]

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I often find myself yearning for the days when Saudi billionaires etc had no interest in football clubs. Probably looking through rose tinted glasses but just seemed more relatable back then.

Definitely. Also, I’m struggling to understand how the Newcastle take over was allowed to go through. They promised that Saudi Arabia wouldn’t have direct control of the club, but apparently all decisions have to be approved by the representative of PIF (the Saudi investment fund bankrolling the project).

What a farce.

[Onceinawhile]

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I recently learned that AC Milan begun as a cricket club, so they're not a proper football club

They were founded in 1899 by English and Swiss industrialists as a football and cricket club, winning their first championship in 1901.

Source: page 10 of "calcio a history of Italian football" by John foot

So they are.

[Since90+2]

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They were. Now they are just a global sports franchise.

They’ve bought enormous success but at what cost? Man City isn’t the same club anymore imo.

I've always held the view that a football club is essentially it's fans. Owners, managers, players all come and go over the years yet the loyal fans remain constant.

Man City are a proper football club and always will be to the people of Manchester and the surrounding areas.

[Since452]

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I've always held the view that a football club is essentially it's fans. Owners, managers, players all come and go over the years yet the loyal fans remain constant.

Man City are a proper football club and always will be to the people of Manchester and the surrounding areas.

I agree. Anyone other than fans are just custodians. I say "just" but they have a vital duty to protect clubs which are a gigantic part of peoples lives. I sometimes wonder if rich foreign owners realise just how important football clubs are and the role they play in the community and have played in generations of families lives. If i think about my own life, i've been emotionally invested in Hibernian FC for longer than anything else in my lifetime. More than any relationship, children, parents now they are gone. And that's just one person. There will be thousands the same as me. That's some thought.

[lucky]

So which of these two Paris clubs are a real football club?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59053439

[Pagan Hibernia]

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So which of these two Paris clubs are a real football club?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59053439

very interesting piece that. I’d never heard of Red Star Paris, despite the fact they’ve been around since the 1800s. They’re almost an antidote to PSG.

helps that they play in green and white of course.

[lucky]

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very interesting piece that. I’d never heard of Red Star Paris, despite the fact they’ve been around since the 1800s. They’re almost an antidote to PSG.

helps that they play in green and white of course.

I thought it was decent read but the point I was making is there is no standard formula to what constitutes a proper football club. Fans support their team for a variety of reasons politics, religion, location, history, colours and of course success. Clubs are clubs regardless of what fans of other clubs think. Without rivals there is no football.

[jacomo]

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I've always held the view that a football club is essentially it's fans. Owners, managers, players all come and go over the years yet the loyal fans remain constant.

Man City are a proper football club and always will be to the people of Manchester and the surrounding areas.

Events of the past 18 months show us otherwise. Fans are essentially an optional extra for these clubs now… nice for improving the show, as a full stadium looks better, but really just a customer base to be engaged with content and sold merchandise.

The backlash to the proposed breakaway league took them by surprise, but these clubs don’t really care anymore unless it affects the brand.

[Pagan Hibernia]

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I thought it was decent read but the point I was making is there is no standard formula to what constitutes a proper football club. Fans support their team for a variety of reasons politics, religion, location, history, colours and of course success. Clubs are clubs regardless of what fans of other clubs think. Without rivals there is no football.

Well yes, football fans tell themselves all sorts of nonsense to make them feel better. And they tell those lies to themselves so often they end up believing them.

united fans tell themselves that city aren’t a proper club anymore because it softens the blow of city destroying them on the pitch these days.
city fans tell themselves that they are the true Manchester team and united fans all come from Surrey because it made them feel better when United were dominating.
Liverpool fans tell themselves they are the greatest fans in the world, Everton fans claim to be the ‘people’s club’. And so on.

locally, I’ve been guilty of buying into the notion that hearts fans are all badly dressed middle-class rover driving buffoons. But I accept that’s only true for some of them

[Pretty Boy]

In Scotland Queens Park are most definitely a 'proper club'. Undoubtedly one of the most important clubs in the entire history of football.

A club like East Fife also fall into the category of having been historically successful and central to their community. They have won the same number of major trophies as Motherwell and St Mirren and more than the likes of Partick thistle , Falkirk, Dunfermilne and St Johnstone.

The issue with trying to decide who is and isn't a proper club is there is a modernity bias. It's all a load of nonsense anyway. There are clubs i have a bit of a distaste for, Livingston and MK Dons spring to mind, but they are clubs that play football so they are 'proper' football clubs.

[beensaidbefore]

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They were. Now they are just a global sports franchise.

They’ve bought enormous success but at what cost? Man City isn’t the same club anymore imo.

agree with this.

[Phil MaGlass]

Is Gretna a proper football club?
Is Livingstone?

[Smartie]

A "proper club" is one that is in either the top league of English or Scottish football when you collect panini football stickers for the first time.

For me that means Luton Town and Coventry City are most certainly proper clubs whereas Leeds United are not.

[Keith_M]

So some clubs are proper clubs and others aren't?

Who exactly gets to decide the criteria?