Ryan Porteous speaks out against sectarianism

[Carheenlea]

Ryan Porteous speaks with Graham Spiers in today’s Times about sectarian abuse. I don’t buy papers and The Times is behind a paywall online, but interested to see what he has to say.

https://twitter.com/grahamspiers/sta...991847941?s=21

[Greenbeard]

Good to see. Need more folk to speak out. As long as the message doesn't become a fashionable, boring, meaningless one like "taking the knee" with no actual action being taken, as so often seems to happen these days. The authorities could start by threatening to impose a one-match closure on any section at Ipox from which their trad sectarian singing emanates.
On a slight tangent I heard on the radio earlier this week that folk are calling for hair discrimination to be written into law. So the next person to call me baldie is getting reported.

[Pretty Boy]

For the 1st time I think there is a genuine movement growing to tackle 'sectarianism' in Scotland. Ironically I think Rangers played a part in it happening. After the Glen Kamara incident every other club, fans and club alike, backed them and quite rightly so. Since then there has been little indication Rangers are going to reciprocate and self police their own fanbase. Maybe people have decided enough is enough.

Interestingly I know that the Scottish Govt failed to respond to a request for a meeting from 3 groups representing Catholics in Scotland. One was Call It Out who are increasingly active on Twitter but have a few people involved who may be described as controversial. The other 2 were more official groups, one representing the laity and the other the clergy. Police Scotland were also less than enthusiastic about meeting with Call It Out.

That suggests the political will to tackle this issue isn't there yet, despite public soundbites to the contrary. Politicians are nothing if not reactive though, if the mood of the country changes then they will change with it. There's political merit in it too, the staunch vote isn't going to swing towards our current Govt. The Catholic vote, cradle and practising alike, is there to be won.

[gbhibby]

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For the 1st time I think there is a genuine movement growing to tackle 'sectarianism' in Scotland. Ironically I think Rangers played a part in it happening. After the Glen Kamara incident every other club, fans and club alike, backed them and quite rightly so. Since then there has been little indication Rangers are going to reciprocate and self police their own fanbase. Maybe people have decided enough is enough.

Interestingly I know that the Scottish Govt failed to respond to a request for a meeting from 3 groups representing Catholics in Scotland. One was Call It Out who are increasingly active on Twitter but have a few people involved who may be described as controversial. The other 2 were more official groups, one representing the laity and the other the clergy. Police Scotland were also less than enthusiastic about meeting with Call It Out.

That suggests the political will to tackle this issue isn't there yet, despite public soundbites to the contrary. Politicians are nothing if not reactive though, if the mood of the country changes then they will change with it. There's political merit in it too, the staunch vote isn't going to swing towards our current Govt. The Catholic vote, cradle and practising alike, is there to be won.

Hope it happens but just like previous initiatives it will probably will not change anything. These two clubs rely on bigotry to get the punters into the grounds. People of one religion should not be anti another religion. Rangers do not do anything to help the situation by actions like introducing Orange training tops as they know their bigots will buy them. Being non religious I think religion is given far too much prominence in all societies and we need to move on from things that were started in different times, just my opinion. Ryan must feel like a punchball at the moment so he is right to go public and highlight these things.
In my 50 odd years of going to games not much has changed so good luck with any new initiatives.
On the subject of hair abuse, red heads have feelings as well.

[hibee]

I’ve no interest in any religion at all but can’t see much changing while we continue to separate school children based on what fictional story their parents believe in.

[Hibs90]

Anyone paste the article?

[Hillsidehibby]

Be very careful Ryan.

[Since452]

Always extremely impressed with how Porteous speaks. Mature head on young shoulders.

[theonlywayisup]

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I’ve no interest in any religion at all but can’t see much changing while we continue to separate school children based on what fictional story their parents believe in.

Not for this thread, but isn't it odd that religion is at the centre of so many of today's problems due to events that happened many centuries ago.

[gbhibby]

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I’ve no interest in any religion at all but can’t see much changing while we continue to separate school children based on what fictional story their parents believe in.

Asked my dad when I was 10 how could others teams get big crowds to match the old firm his response was they need to create new religions son.
Integrated schools is a starting point.

[Smartie]

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I’ve no interest in any religion at all but can’t see much changing while we continue to separate school children based on what fictional story their parents believe in.

The thing I find strange is that I've never heard this argument put forward but anyone who actively participates/ believes in a religion whose followers are routinely prejudiced against.

It's always either atheists or protestants (in the loosest possible sense) who seem to suggest it.

[Keith_M]

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I’ve no interest in any religion at all but can’t see much changing while we continue to separate school children based on what fictional story their parents believe in.

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...
Integrated schools is a starting point.

I think that's a valid discussion to have but I do worry that it distracts from the main issue, that of a group of people determined to hate and abuse people based based purely on their religion (or even their perceived religion).

[lord bunberry]

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I’ve no interest in any religion at all but can’t see much changing while we continue to separate school children based on what fictional story their parents believe in.

My daughter goes to a catholic school, I’m not a catholic and there’s Muslim, Sikhs and I’m sure other religions who attend. The idea that children are separated is out of date and not true anymore.

[Pretty Boy]

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The thing I find strange is that I've never heard this argument put forward but anyone who actively participates/ believes in a religion whose followers are routinely prejudiced against.

It's always either atheists or protestants (in the loosest possible sense) who seem to suggest it.

Using Catholic schools as causation is the very definition of victim blaming.

Reading up on the reason they exist in the first place would be a good start. It's the lazy argument trotted out by the Rangers mafia on Sportsound to avoid looking any deeper at the problem.

Bigotry of any kind is primarily learned in the home. The Orange Order will be made up of people who attended non dom schools. It doesn't seem to have ingrained a sense of inclusiveness among them.

[DaveF]

I dredged up the McGinn thread last night as I don't think anyone was ever arrested for giving him abuse at Stamford Bridge despite the initial media outcry and a clear video showing the culprit. Nil byouth or this group's PB mentioned should maybe be pushing Chelsea / Villa to see what's happened to that as it seems like a high profile case of sectarianism just being swept under the carpet.

[Danderhall Hibs]

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Ryan Porteous speaks with Graham Spiers in today’s Times about sectarian abuse. I don’t buy papers and The Times is behind a paywall online, but interested to see what he has to say.

https://twitter.com/grahamspiers/sta...991847941?s=21

Not read it yet but the comments under the post tells you everything. Full of whataboutery and finger pointing.

They’ve no idea - they’ll never get better. The first step is acceptance.

[Smartie]

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Using Catholic schools as causation is the very definition of victim blaming.

Reading up on the reason they exist in the first place would be a good start. It's the lazy argument trotted out by the Rangers mafia on Sportsound to avoid looking any deeper at the problem.

Bigotry of any kind is primarily learned in the home. The Orange Order will be made up of people who attended non dom schools. It doesn't seem to have ingrained a sense of inclusiveness among them.

I went to school in small town Scotland. I think maybe one or two people travelled a distance to go to a catholic school but generally we all mixed together. At primary school a local priest would come and the catholics would go away together for cathecism. There were always hymns at assembly and the like but we all did that together and for the bigger services towards the end of term and the like there seemed to be a few figures at the services from the local churches.

I always thought that it was a pretty good way to go, particularly the mixing in the playground etc.

What this doesn't take into consideration is that is was still a breeding ground for bigots. Exactly as you say - the bigotry is learned at home, and this still happened plenty. Funnily enough it seemed to mainly involve people who attach themselves to a particular football club and derive much of their sense of identity from the values espoused by that club.

So I agree that I think that the school thing is a red herring - to a point.

What I would say though is that - particularly later, after going to university - I felt that I benefitted from mixing with a much more multicultural bunch of people - different nationalities, different cultures, different religions. It certainly helps teach you that some of the terms you may have grown up routinely hearing your grandparents used are no longer acceptable, for one thing. I'm not sure that it's a bad thing to have children have to square the fact that at home they might be hearing this and that about a particular group of people and at the end of the day what they're hearing is a slaughtering of the wee guy they sit beside at school, play football with and swap stickers with.

It's not something that's likely to be brought up directly, but I do think it's easy to underestimate how much of a malignancy Rangers Football Club are on Scottish society. I think it was Ricky Tomlinson's "Who do you think you are" episode where they explored why sectarianism and anti-Irish racism decreased so much in the cities of Northern England. The answer there was that instead of fighting amongst themselves they realised that by joining forces the working classes could fight for a better lot for themselves. The more interesting question might be - why in this day and age does it exist in Scotland? I reckon a significant factor is Rangers. We still allow places where like minded people can gather in numbers (either online or in person) to practice their racism, either the overt or dog-whistle variety and so it's never had a chance to go away.

What you do about it is another story, but I'll tell you what - Ryan Porteous speaking out is a very good place to start, so good on the young man. He'll take more than a bit of flak for it, that's for sure, and he'll likely harm his own future prospects in certain quarters. That's the way it works.

[FilipinoHibs]

Great that a young man like Ryan who can look after himself on the pitch is taking a stand against racism, sectarianism and homophobia.

[Since452]

Some of the comments I've seen by Rangers fans on this is astonishing. He brought it on himself etc. Cannot even begin to describe my hatred of that club and their fans.

[Diclonius]

God, he's really going for it isn't he. Well done Ryan.

[Keith_M]

The Rangers Motto,

...always read the small print



Everyone
...that's a Proddy
Anyone
...that isnae a Pape

[BegbieHSC]

The fact that doing this interview is considered brave is a shocking indictment on Scottish football.

Proud of Ryan here, sticking his head out above the parapet, and saying what needs to be said. It needs to stop.

Huns haven’t stopped abusing him, and with their mindset, this article will probably temporarily intensify it, but Porto doing what he’s doing will bring their bigotry to attention, and slowly become far less acceptable to on lookers.

The lad has got the temperament and spirit to be our next captain, and he deserves it - I just hope the Huns don’t drive him out the country.

[gbhibby]

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Some of the comments I've seen by Rangers fans on this is astonishing. He brought it on himself etc. Cannot even begin to describe my hatred of that club and their fans.

Saw some of them says it all. With reference to previous posts I had a Catholic headteacher say to me that the Catholic religion is the only religion. The more people who speak out about racism and sectarianism the better, might get something done hopefully.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

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I went to school in small town Scotland. I think maybe one or two people travelled a distance to go to a catholic school but generally we all mixed together. At primary school a local priest would come and the catholics would go away together for cathecism. There were always hymns at assembly and the like but we all did that together and for the bigger services towards the end of term and the like there seemed to be a few figures at the services from the local churches.

I always thought that it was a pretty good way to go, particularly the mixing in the playground etc.

What this doesn't take into consideration is that is was still a breeding ground for bigots. Exactly as you say - the bigotry is learned at home, and this still happened plenty. Funnily enough it seemed to mainly involve people who attach themselves to a particular football club and derive much of their sense of identity from the values espoused by that club.

So I agree that I think that the school thing is a red herring - to a point.

What I would say though is that - particularly later, after going to university - I felt that I benefitted from mixing with a much more multicultural bunch of people - different nationalities, different cultures, different religions. It certainly helps teach you that some of the terms you may have grown up routinely hearing your grandparents used are no longer acceptable, for one thing. I'm not sure that it's a bad thing to have children have to square the fact that at home they might be hearing this and that about a particular group of people and at the end of the day what they're hearing is a slaughtering of the wee guy they sit beside at school, play football with and swap stickers with.

It's not something that's likely to be brought up directly, but I do think it's easy to underestimate how much of a malignancy Rangers Football Club are on Scottish society. I think it was Ricky Tomlinson's "Who do you think you are" episode where they explored why sectarianism and anti-Irish racism decreased so much in the cities of Northern England. The answer there was that instead of fighting amongst themselves they realised that by joining forces the working classes could fight for a better lot for themselves. The more interesting question might be - why in this day and age does it exist in Scotland? I reckon a significant factor is Rangers. We still allow places where like minded people can gather in numbers (either online or in person) to practice their racism, either the overt or dog-whistle variety and so it's never had a chance to go away.

What you do about it is another story, but I'll tell you what - Ryan Porteous speaking out is a very good place to start, so good on the young man. He'll take more than a bit of flak for it, that's for sure, and he'll likely harm his own future prospects in certain quarters. That's the way it works.

It's funny, my town is getting a new Catholic high school and primary school. When it's discussed on the Facebook page you always get the comments of 'um no against Catholics but......'

Funny thing is the primary has a number of protestants and Muslims attending as well

[Keith_M]

Uhm, this is supposed to be a discussion about sectarian football fans, not religious schools.

[CMurdoch]

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Uhm, this is supposed to be a discussion about sectarian football fans, not religious schools.

Article is stuck behind a pay wall so posters have not read it to comment on what Porteous and Speirs have said on the issue and have therefore gone off on a tangent.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

That's me telt

[BegbieHSC]

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Using Catholic schools as causation is the very definition of victim blaming.

Reading up on the reason they exist in the first place would be a good start. It's the lazy argument trotted out by the Rangers mafia on Sportsound to avoid looking any deeper at the problem.

Bigotry of any kind is primarily learned in the home. The Orange Order will be made up of people who attended non dom schools. It doesn't seem to have ingrained a sense of inclusiveness among them.

Absolutely. I went to a catholic primary school, and a non-dom secondary, as did many because coming from a small town, the attached catholic secondary was 20 miles away, whereas there was a non-dom secondary in the town I grew up in, so lots of us just went there.

This was in the 2000s, and one of the PE teachers (a lodge man) would make constant wee comments when we were in first year that singled us out. Bigotry was rife tbh.

Scotland is one of the only countries in the world where faith schools are mooted as the reason why some are bigoted against that faith. It’s a classic case of victim blaming. It’s a lazy excuse that gives a green light to bigots to continue their bigotry. It starts at home, but those will listen to sportsound, hear the morons spouting off about catholic schools, and think ‘that’s why I’m a bigot - it’s no my fault.’

My brother is an English teacher at catholic school in Edinburgh, and he says roughly 50% of the school roll is catholic, with about 30% Muslim, and the rest made up of those from the Jewish community, and non-religious who just see them as providing a good standard of education. To say they are exclusionary is preposterous.

The debate has to grow up, and realise that anti-catholic bigotry is deeply ingrained. It’s not the fault of the schools for those of that faith, but it’s the fault of the bigots themselves. I’ll never forget that PE teacher in my school days. Scotland is generally thought of as more inclusive and accepting than England in terms of immigration, and while that might be true in some respects, many have never got over the immigration that happened over 100 years ago from Ireland.

Rangers fans are a disgrace, but sadly I feel they are only the tip of the iceberg.

[gbhibby]

The article is being reported in other newspapers but hopefully someone can do a cut and paste job on post the article on here.
It seems to be fans of one club in particular who are responsible here but the lack of strict liability means there are no sanctions that can be applied. It is a disgrace to Scottish Society that guys like Ryan are subject to these types of comments and have to highlight it.
These are the people with the same mentality who sent death threats and bullets through the post to Neil Lennon.
The bigots live in all parts of Scotland not just the West of Scotland.

[Iain G]

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Not for this thread, but isn't it odd that religion is at the centre of so many of today's problems due to events that happened many centuries ago.

And it's all based on a fairy story! Makes no sense it the modern day that religion has so much power and hold over so many people and dictates their day to day life and how they react to each other.